All things

Swag365 said:

Well we are in control of a few things, such as whether or not we commit sin.

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You can't control your tongue according to James.

BNR32FAN said:

God doesn’t create the outcome He allows free will otherwise God would be the sinner not the person who committed the sin.

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He created the outcome or prophecy is impossible.

Dave L said:

You are missing how dreadfully sinful people are and how deserving of God's wrath they are.

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I didn't miss that.

Swag365 said:

I didn't miss that.

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Then how is it wrong for God to have them murdered?

Dave L said:

Why would God plunge Adam and the whole race into sin and destruction if he loved them? His love is only seen in Christ's paying for their sins on the cross. And that has nothing to do with them and everything to do with his loving nature.

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Again God didn’t cause anyone to sin. Your saying that God told Adam & Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge then made them eat from it, then asked them why they ate from it and punished them for eating it. Does that make sense to you? It’s definitely not supported by the scriptures it’s merely derived from a misinterpretation of them.

Dave L said:

You can't control your tongue according to James.

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If God causes you to sin, why are you deserving of his wrath? Shouldn't he be mad at himself, since he caused you to do it?

Swag365 said:

If God causes you to sin, why are you deserving of his wrath? Shouldn't he be mad at himself, since he cause you to do it?

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I'm already sinful and deserve more sin except Christ saved me. Why did he not destroy the Canaanites sooner? Because their sins were not complete.

Swag365 said:

It's just basic common sense. God says "You shall not murder" but then turns right around and decrees that people murder, to ultimately glorify himself by saving them? It's complete nonsense.

This is why I cannot take Reformed theology seriously. It turns God into some sort of low-self esteem schizophrenic who needs to go around saving people to prove how merciful he is.

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You forgot that He only saves some and the rest He just made them sin then punishes them in the lake of fire for all eternity for doing something He made them do. Yep complete nonsense.

BNR32FAN said:

Again God didn’t cause anyone to sin. Your saying that God told Adam & Eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge then made them eat from it, then asked them why they ate from it and punished them for eating it. Does that make sense to you? It’s definitely not supported by the scriptures it’s merely derived from a misinterpretation of them.

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“And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:20–23 (KJV 1900)

All Glory To God said:

Well obviously that was my interpretation of the text. How one interprets the text is probably what they think God's will is.

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The interpretation should be based upon the plain text - not one's preconceptions. Reread Matthew 6:10.

BNR32FAN said:

You forgot that He only saves some and the rest He just made them sin then punishes them in the lake of fire for all eternity for doing something He made them do. Yep complete nonsense.

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They wanted to sin.

Dave L said:

Then how is it wrong for God to have them murdered?

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Look, if God specifically instructs someone to kill in situation XYZ, that does not fall under the prohibition against murder in the commandments. What is your point?

Dave L said:

I'm already sinful and deserve more sin except Christ saved me. Why did he not destroy the Canaanites sooner? Because their sins were not complete.

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OK you were "already sinful." That sounds like you committed some sins to me. Did God cause you to commit those "already sinful" sins or are you personally responsible for them? You can't have it both ways.

Swag365 said:

Well we are in control of a few things, such as whether or not we commit sin.

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this is a good notion however and reminder that if we live by our flesh we are likely to suffer though we are going to always fall short in many ways. Though the spirit inside of us will never commit any sin what do ever.

We are all individually responsible for our own actions we commit and can not blame anyone for our own choices we make. It’s like I could watch porn today but is it good for me ? Or I could go do some crystal meth today but is it good for me? Or I could ... whatever it is.

Though having those choices and being a believer the spirit is always gonna wanna go the other way, and if you satisfy your flesh you grieve the spirit and may experience guilt.

We will never be perfect and we are responsible for ourselves and our conduct we choose to interact with.

Not only that we are accountable to God alone, though our sins have completely already been paid for on the cross 2000 years ago before we came into existence.

John Mullally said:

The interpretation should be based upon the plain text - not one's preconceptions. Reread Matthew 6:10.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.​

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OK so what is it?

All Glory To God said:

OK so what is it?

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It is as I said - your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Earthlings know that this scripture is speaking about all earthlings - unless you have preconceptions that nullify scripture.

Hammster said:

If God has decreed all things that come to pass, it’s easy to understand how we should give thanks in all things.

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Even for the rape of a little girl, say, or the murder of an entire family savaged and then burned to death in their own home? For genocide? And adultery? We should give thanks for these things God has decreed to come to pass? Really?

Hammster said:

We may not always understand these things, especially the tragic, but we can still be thankful even through tears and mourning. We know that God’s plan will bring Him glory.

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Oh? How is God glorified by making Him the Ultimate Source of all the vilest, most horrific evil of humanity?

Hammster said:

My question is for those who don’t think that God decrees all that comes to pass. How do you give thanks to God in all things if He’s not in charge of all things?

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If we are to give thanks literally for all things, then why does Paul bother in Ephesians 5 to approve some behaviours and forbid others? If a man treats his wife badly, has God not decree that he should? And if God has so decreed his evil conduct, who are we to object to it? If a wife disrespects her husband, it is only ultimately because God has decreed that she should. Why, then, protest her behaviour? It's ultimately God's doing, not hers. If she is to act differently, it must be by God's decree, not by Paul telling her how she ought to behave, right?

Of course, this is very bizarre thinking, to me. I cannot believe that when Paul wrote that we ought to give thanks for all things that he meant literally for us to give thanks for everything, however evil and destructive or utterly trivial, any more than he meant that we should be giving thanks literally always, twenty-four hours a day, in every single moment, regardless of the fact we might be unconscious, undergoing surgery, or asleep, or so caught in pain, writhing in agony from it, that we cannot hold a coherent thought in our head, or distracted by some dangerous but necessary activity that demands all of our immediate attention, and so on. Whatever Paul meant, it wasn't that we should take his words absolutely literally, as you seem to think we should.

Does the rest of Scripture give me any clue as to how to take Paul's words? Well, I think of King David's prayers in the Psalms in which he complains and despairs of many things. He doesn't give thanks to God for every evil thing he mentions. Does God demand of Job that he give thanks for the destruction of his children and for the pox he suffered? Not that I'm aware of. Does God tell Job that these things were thankworthy in-and-of themselves? No. How about Paul? Does he ever acknowledge that an event in his life was negative in some way without also giving thanks for it? Yes, a number of times.

In light of these things, I give thanks to God as often as I can for all the thankworthy things I can. I don't, however, stretch Paul's words to the point of ridiculousness, as you seem to think I should.

BNR32FAN said:

You forgot that He only saves some and the rest He just made them sin then punishes them in the lake of fire for all eternity for doing something He made them do. Yep complete nonsense.

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And apparently he only saves some while damning the rest without even giving them a chance, to "bring glory" to himself. You tell me, how is it bringing glory to oneself by taking actions that will make most of the world view you as a capricious monster?

Dave L said:

God created all, even sin, and the times and reasons people commit it. Are you saying God did not create all?

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The scriptures do not say that God created sin.

God created time, space, and the material world, including beings with the capacity to choose to sin (i.e. think, speak, and act in opposition to God's stated will).

Sin is not a creation. It is a response ... to God's will by creatures with a degree of free-will.

Dave L said:

Have you considered that God only becomes knowable when contrasted to sin? No sin, no mercy. No sin, no righteousness. No sin no wrath. No sin, no love. And so on. Trust God, sin is here for his glory.

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So, ... you define God per sin ???

I believe that it is more appropriate to define sin ... per God ...

John Mullally said:

It is as I said - your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Earthlings know that this scripture is speaking about all earthlings - unless you have preconceptions that nullify scripture.

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All earthlings yes. This does not actually tell what his will or plan is does it?

See, this is what happens when a person uses the method of scriptural comparison and puts one thing against another which is not helpful.

I'm going to quote scripture and try to deal with it directly if you can:

Isaiah 45:7
Lamentations 3:38
Amos 3:6