Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope you are feeling better.
Thank you very much, Jason0047. That was kind of you. I am feeling better, though I am not exactly well yet.
I know your reply was to brother George, but I feel like I need to reply here so as to let the light of the truth of God's Word shine on this matter, my friend.
My only desire is for the light of the truth of God’s Word to shine on this, as well as, every matter.
Okay. To get down to it.
God did not create man to be unequal in ability.
Yes, Jason, I believe He did. I cannot do what a contortionist does. I cannot pass an astrophysics exam. I will never high-jump over eight feet high. I cannot hold my breath underwater for four minutes. God did indeed make man (and woman) to be unequal in ability. If He did not this would be a pretty dull world. For one thing, there would be little use, if any, for the
Guinness Book of World Records, lol. God did not, however, make people to be unequal in value in His sight.
God did not make some men to have an inclination to want to be more sinful (and away from God) vs. others who want to surrender to Jesus Christ by having faith in Him and following His righteous and good ways.
You may be correct here. I honestly cannot say if this is true or not. I would hope this is true, but I am not God and simply do not know exhaustively the mind of God. Let us assume for the sake of this discussion that you are correct. (Again, I hope you are.) Are you saying we are all products of our environment, culture, economic situation, physical location, and upbringing? If, as you say, we are all equal in ability and inclination as respects our attitude toward Jesus Christ, then something else must surely explain the varying attitudes towards our Lord.
All men will have to give an account for their actions before God.
I agree with you 100% here, Jason0047.
Paul says, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).
Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear?
There are two points I wish to make here concerning this verse.
The first is this: Everything in this chapter preceding this verse is instruction to this congregation about
imitating the humility of Jesus Christ.
“be likeminded (with Jesus), having
the same love, being of
one accord, of
one mind.
Let
nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but
in lowliness of mind let each
esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you,
which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But
made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the
form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man,
he humbled himself, and became
obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore (because Jesus emptied himself of his exalted estate and wholly humbled himself)
God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ
is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Paul is telling the members of this church to
give due diligence to their own personal salvation and to
be humble in this diligence; not assuming one is better or more religious than any other. He is warning them against having pride in their in their salvation
because it is not of their own doing that they have been, and are being, saved.
The second point is more in direct response to your question about “trembling” and “fear” and is found in the verse immediately following Philippians 2:12.
“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For (because)
it is God which worketh in you both
to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
“
Fear and trembling” must be the order of the day here because it is not we, but Almighty God Himself who is directing us in our salvation and newness of life in Jesus Christ. It is as if we ourselves were standing before God at the “burning bush which was not consumed” and being told to “put off the sandals” from our feet because “the place where we are standing is holy ground!” It is the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent God, the “I am that I am,” the Sovereign Almighty, and Only Wise God Himself who is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure! In other words, this is the holiest of endeavors in which we will ever find ourselves and it must be treated as such. There is no place for pride, arrogance, self-aggrandizement, or ego whatsoever in this matter because it is all of God, by God, and for God. When we decide to follow Jesus Christ it is all or nothing. There can be no waffling in our approach to the throne of mercy and grace.
Now, if in any way a man is not responsible for his actions, and salvation was all a by product of what God does to us (by God keeping us by His power alone) than man is off the hook in what he does.
I certainly agree with this statement, however, I never said anything even remotely close to this in my post, so I honestly do not see why you are bringing it up. Every man is responsible for his actions…period! This does not depend upon whether he is following Jesus or not; however, the one who is following Jesus is infinitely more responsible for his actions.
…He can believe in Jesus and think he can sin and still be saved. But such thinking is against what Jude 1:4 says.
No one who is truly saved and is following Jesus can possibly ever think such a thing as this. This is an integral part of what being saved means, Jason0047. The one who is sincerely born again is a “new creation; the old is gone the new has come.” This is the very definition of “born again.”
"For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.
They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." (
Jude 1:4 NIV).
Yes. “
They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord." They are not saved. They were never saved. They are
UNGODLY!
Anyways, when we read 1 Peter 1:5 that says, "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation..." we have to also look at the words "through faith." For without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6).
Again, yes, I agree with you here and I agree with the scripture here. Here is a link to a post I wrote to Brother Asaph George earlier in this conversation in which I drove home this very point about faith playing an absolutely vital role in salvation:
ALL Scriptures For and Against Once Saved Always Saved
Hebrews 9:14
“How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”
“…to purge your conscience from dead works…” the works one pursued before he was saved.
This is done to free you to serve God with a mind that is not tortured by your past.
Titus 3:8
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.”
The world is always watching the one who professes to be a follower of Jesus Christ. He must be ever vigilant to maintain good works and to “avoid even the appearance of evil” for it is the Holy Name of God he is claiming to represent. God takes the purity and sanctity of His Name most seriously. I would direct you to Ezekiel 36:16-23. Also, good works have been “
prepared in advance” for those who are “
saved by grace through faith” as we are now “
ambassadors for Christ.” These works are prepared for those who are saved because none other is fit for the task. We are to engage in these good works, in part, to show the power of God unto salvation; NOT to earn or keep our salvation, but as evidence of our salvation, and obedience to God our Father.
1 Peter 4:1-2
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God
Again, I agree with this in its entirety. For Jesus has said, “Scripture cannot be broken.” “…no longer (living) the rest of (one’s) time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God…” is evidence of salvation. It, in no manner whatsoever, earns or maintains salvation. It is the willful and joyful act of obedience of the one who has truly been saved. He cannot but do it.
Colossians 1:21-23
21 “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.”
Jason0047, I am certain you have read the beginning of this chapter also. Perhaps you overlooked what Paul said there.
“For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Giving thanks unto the Father,
which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: -Colossians 1:9-14
Please note, Jason0047, this passage says we have already been made meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; because that is what
“hath made” means. We have already been delivered from the power of darkness by Almighty God himself. This is what
“hath delivered us from the power of darkness” means. We have already been translated into the kingdom of God’s dear Son, because that is what
“hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son” means. We already have redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross for us, because that is what
“we have redemption through his blood” means. We already have forgiveness of sins, because that is what
“even the forgiveness of sins” means when combined with the phrase immediately preceding it.
Colossians 2:6-7
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith,as ye have been taught,”
Amen!!!
1 John 1:7
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
Again, Amen!
In fact, if we are kept by the power of God, then all people should be saved.
I do not understand how you arrived at this. The scriptures do not say
all people are kept by the power of God. This is a promise made only to the elect, those who are truly saved, to those who will never turn back.
It would show a lack of the power of God if salvation was ultimately up to God in saving us.
In Ephesians Paul wrote:
“
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins,
hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved.” –Ephesians 2:1-5
Please tell me, Jason0047, how many times have you seen a dead man dig himself up out of a grave and make himself alive again? Paul says we were
DEAD. It is God who has quickened us and made us to live together with Christ.
And again:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works,
lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
Salvation is not now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be by the works of any man other than the man Jesus Christ. To say otherwise is just plain wrong. We did not save ourselves. We cannot save ourselves. If we are truly saved we cannot lose our salvation. It is the gift of God secured by the power of God for the glory of God!
However, the Scriptures say,
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9).
Repentance is asking God for forgiveness of one's sins (Which is naturally followed by the fruits of repentance - i.e. forsaking sin). Jesus says that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the peaching of Jonah. That means that this generation of believers (even today), they are not repenting of their sins.
Brother Jason0047, repentance is not “asking God for forgiveness of one's sins.” Repentance is turning around and going in the opposite direction from the way you have been going. Repentance from sin means to turn away from sin and to turn towards God and His holiness. Many people pray every day, Jason0047, for forgiveness of sins
yet they never repent. They continue in their sins and then just pray for forgiveness again when they turn in for the night. They are not unlike Don Quixote and his imaginary dragons. Their prayers are sheer vanity because they have not the desire within them to change. They simply covet forgiveness so they do not have to feel guilty.
Also, the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) is 100% proof that any faithful believer can lose their salvation by sliding back into a life style of sin and then be saved again by repenting of their sins.
Jason0047, I do not wish to hurt your feelings but you have misunderstood the parable of the prodigal son if you believe he was saved and lost his salvation and then regained it. This is not the meaning of this parable at all.
The Parable of the Lost Sheep, the Parable of the Lost Coin, and the Parable of the Prodigal Son are all three Jesus’ response to the Pharisees and Scribes who, in verse two of this chapter, “murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.” All three of these parables Jesus told with the purpose of vindicating himself in conversing with publicans and sinners, of reproving the envy of the Pharisees, and of encouraging every sincere penitent, by moving representations of the divine mercy. In the parable of the Prodigal Son, the younger, or Prodigal, son represents the publicans and the sinners who have need of salvation and have drawn nigh unto Jesus to hear what he had to say. This is how the chapter begins. Please see verse one. The older son represents the Pharisees who resent the younger son being approved of by the father. Reference verses twenty-five through thirty.
Anyways, the person who is kept by the power of God is the one who has faith. This is a true faith that not only trusts in God's salvation and what He has done for us with Christ's death and resurrection, but it is a faith that also lives itself out in good works and holy living, too.
You are absolutely correct here, Jason0047. This is exactly what I have been attempting to say all along now with every post I have written in this thread.
For Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness no man shall see the Lord. So this is not "Easy Believism" or a sin and still be saved type belief or faith.
Again, you are absolutely correct. I have never, ever endorsed “Easy Believism” or a “sin and still be saved type belief or faith.” I have decried this kind of thinking from day one and will continue to do so. What I have been saying is that those who do believe this are not saved and no matter what they think they have never been saved for they neither know God nor the power of His salvation in Jesus Christ.
This is the kind of faith in God that leads a person to follow Jesus and His good ways. For he that is not with Jesus, they scatter or run away from Him.
RIGHT!!! …the
kind of faith in God that leads a person to follow Jesus and His good ways!!! This person will follow Jesus and he will never revert to his old ways again for he is kept by the power of God through faith. He will never lose his salvation because he understands from whence he gained it, what price was paid for it, the unmatchable love of God in Jesus Christ which secured it, and the hope of eternal life it promises! This person is saved and will endure anything to honor God. Anything!
In other words, if a person says they believe in Jesus, and yet they are not really following Jesus, they are scattering or running away from the true Jesus of the Bible. If this is the case, then the Jesus they talk about is another Jesus. For nowhere does the Bible teach that we can not follow Jesus and still be saved.
Yes, yes, yes! That person is not saved.
Are you saying that:
(a) A born again person cannot sin spiritually even if they physically do sin?
Meaning, that if a believer sins, his sin is paid for by Jesus and he does not need to worry about his salvation. So asking God for forgiveness is not really necessary after believing in Jesus for salvation. Is that what you believe?
(b) A born again person cannot keep continuing to sin habitually like an unbeliever. The believer will sin on occasion but their life is not characterized by a life of sin. Is this what you believe?
(c) A born again person cannot sin any way whatsoever while abiding in Jesus Christ. Is this what you believe?
I believe in (b). A and C are ridiculous.
Anyways, 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil.
Is there any mention that 1 John 3:8 is talking about how commits sin is in reference to a habitual lifestyle of sin?
Yes, sir, the original Greek structure says it. It just is not translated that way very often. The New American Standard Bible which is touted as perhaps the truest to the original Greek language, and the New International Bible both get it right. The NASB translates it as “practices sin” and the NIV translates it as “continue in sin.” There may be other translations which get it right but I honestly cannot remember right now.
1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous.
So righteousness is more than just having a belief on Jesus alone.
Although, a belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, and seeking His forgiveness is where righteousness begins for a believer.
Yes, and he who paints is a painter, and he who writes is a writer and so on and so forth. Yes, righteousness is much, much more than just having
A belief in Jesus, his death and resurrection. And, yes, seeking His forgiveness is where righteousness begins for a believer.
1 John 3:10 says he that does not righteousness and or does not love his brother is not of God. This to me is a very works oriented verse. It is saying to me that if I do not do righteousness or love my brother, I am not of God.
The verse is, of course, true. The one who does not these things is not of God and these things prove that he is not of God. They are evidence that he is not of God just as the one who does these things is displaying evidence that he is of God. These evidences, however, are not the source of his salvation. They are just the evidence of it.
1 John 3:15 says that if you hate your brother, no eternal life abides in you. Paul says that loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (like "Do not murder," "Do not lie," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10). Loving your neighbor would no doubt include loving your brother. So if 1 John 3:15 is to be true, we cannot hate our brother even one time in our life and expect to have eternal life in us. For 1 John 3:15 says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. 1 John 3:15 is speaking in the present tense and not in some overall broad brush stroke of a believer's life. In fact, Jesus echoes similar words. Jesus says that if you look upon a woman in lust, you are in danger of your body of being cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Why all these warnings if the believer is in no way able to fall away by sin? For it does not do an unbeliever any good to be told to avoid certain sins. They first need to accept Jesus as their Savior in order to be initially saved.
After carefully reading what you have just said here, I get the feeling that you might be thinking that every time a believer sins he loses his salvation. I hope this is not what you are saying. If that were the case salvation would be a very worrisome and exhausting endeavor. Do you remember when Jesus said to Peter, “Get thee behind me, Satan?” Did Peter lose his salvation at that moment? Jesus predicted Peter would deny him three times on the night of Jesus’ arrest. Peter did. Do you remember how the book of John ends? Read chapter twenty-one again. Jesus ever-so-lovingly restores Peter’s faith and commissions him to oversee the church. Is this what losing your salvation looks like? Peter never lost his salvation. He suffered a break in fellowship with God temporarily but God loved Peter and Jesus restored his spirit and good standing with him. Do you have children? If one of them should do something absolutely wrong would you stop loving him or her or would you lovingly make every effort to reassure him or her of your unfailing love and restore the broken relationship?
Brother Jason0047, God does not throw away his heirs and fellow-heirs with Jesus Christ over a mistake made in a moment of faulty judgment. The saved one in Jesus Christ cannot go on sinning unrepentingly because the Holy Spirit and God’s seed within him simply will not allow him to throw away his salvation. Jesus said no one could come unto him unless the Father draws him to him. Jesus also prayed to the Father and said he had not lost one of the ones the Father had given him. He still has not. He never will.
You have my deepest sympathy for your medical condition or situation. May the Lord give you strength and heal you soon.
Thank you so very much for your kind words, Jason0047 and…