All Israel is saved

[Buzz_B]

OK, now I have your posts 406 and 417 to ponder before i comment. I want to take time to be sure I understand what you have said before speaking to it. And I would like to have a bit of something to eat. Perhaps pork stew.

 

[Buzz_B]

I disagree. To much faith in language. My Grandfather was a Greek Orthodox priest he had the same issue.

I can understand that reservation. But I do not share it. I just try harder to be careful.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I can understand that reservation. But I do not share it. I just try harder to be careful.

Does not matter how careful if we do not have that divine part of God within us as a to lead and guide us into all truth than we are in error. God's Word is a far cry from studying science or math and far more amazing and complex it is the spiritual Word of God

“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts........” Colossians 3:15...peace, the umpire and ruling principle

The word “rule” used in our text comes from the Greek word, “brabeuo”, meaning TO ACT AS JUDGE OR PRESIDENT. Let PEACE be the ruling principle to decide and settle with finality all arising issues. We give three other translations to help bear out the scope of meaning:

“Let the ruling principle in your hearts be Christ’s peace, for in becoming members of one body you have been called under its sway. (Goodspeed).



“Let the peace which Christ gives settle all questionings in your hearts....(Weymouth).

“(act as umpire continually) in your hearts - deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds - , …” (Amplified).

The word PEACE is defined as: a state of tranquility or quiet; freedom from fears, agitating passions, etc. including freedom from moral conflict. What conflict we endure trying to decide if the matter be right, or wrong; not necessarily if it be sinful or holy, but to decide which are the right issues, the right step, or the right stand to take. And so for all of this, what should become the ruling factor in making decisions?

LET THE PEACE OF GOD ACT AS THE UMPIRE.

“(act as umpire continually) in your hearts - deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds - , …” (Amplified).

 

[Buzz_B]

I just put some chicken breasts in a glass covered baking bowl smothered with stir-fry veggies and placed it in the oven at 395 degrees for 45 minutes. In about 35 minutes the smell of its deliciousness will begin toying with me until it is done.

But I want to make it clear being as you keep referring to my saying that I am a Jew, I do not think of myself in those terms. I am a human. I have a mixture of nationalities in my dna of which that just happens to be dominant. I have lived around practicing Jews but never lived as a practicing Jew. I see that God loves all nationalities equally even as he created a variety to lower animals, trees, flowers and you name it. He never intended for anyone to think they were special above anyone else on the basis of nationality and anyone who thinks their nationality makes them special is just practicing bigotry, Jews included.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I just put some chicken breasts in a glass covered baking bowl smothered with stir-fry veggies and placed it in the oven at 395 degrees for 45 minutes. In about 35 minutes the smell of its deliciousness will begin toying with me until it is done.

But I want to make it clear being as you keep referring to my saying that I am a Jew, I do not think of myself in those terms. I am a human. I have a mixture of nationalities in my dna of which that just happens to be dominant. I have lived around practicing Jews but never lived as a practicing Jew. I see that God loves all nationalities equally even as he created a variety to lower animals, trees, flowers and you name it. He never intended for anyone to think they were special above anyone else on the basis of nationality and anyone who thinks their nationality makes them special is just practicing bigotry, Jews included.

Not at all. I love how God has created so many people from so many places and I was just referring to the Jewish culture, language etc. What a wonderful foundation for spiritual truth than being raised under the Law of Moses. The OT is pregnant with deep spiritual meanings.

 

[GenemZ]

Does not change a thing. They would be repenting in parts if their interest were in really seeing and learning to have truth.

They (fallen angels) must know what the truth is, so they can inspire those who wish to teach false teaching to become skillfully contradictory.

 

[ClementofA]

But you speak of many more ages of judgement.

No, i don't. Are you confusing me with someone else?

It is logical then that if Jesus spoke only of one more age of judgement then after that is finished it becomes the only other foreseeable age, the age now free of judgment.

Jesus didn't speak of "only" one more age, or age of judgement. The millennial period will involve people being judged. So also will the post millennium new earth period during which the 2nd death is still existing. Thereafter death, including the 2nd death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes All "in ALL" (v.28), even in ALL who were in Adam (v.22).

Yet rather than trusting in Jesus' words, you cite various verse by others who are speaking and squeeze them to mean the multiple ages you desire to believe in.

I cited Scripture for multiple future ages (Eph.2:7, Rv.11:15 & many others). Multiple. That means at least 2. Capish?

And as I told you once before, you are going to have to accept that I will not follow you in that path of what I feel I know is mere presumptuousness.

Of course you are going to believe what you must. And other readers of these posts may benefit. Reply or not. Up to you.

And you often lay out the word aion doing the exact same things capatalizing on it being plural and forgetting that after that one more age of judgment which Jesus spoke about there is logically another age where there is no more judgment.

See above.

 

[Buzz_B]

Willing??? Paul was far from willing. Talk about being drawn/forced. John 6:44 Paul was blinded for three days fell to the ground does not sound to willing to me. Acts 9.

That is bologna. If not asn expert on anything else, I certainly am on stubbornness. And there is indeed even a godly kind of stubbornness. We have nothing we did not receive from God. It is just that we misuse much of what we received from God. Or, we try to deny and not use it at all, which is only fooling ourselves, for that is impossible.

And what you are speaking of being able to happen to a man is not a true repentance at all. It is nothing but a cowardly compromise in which ones heart is never ever completely committed to.

No true repentance is possible if true willingness is not involved. No one could beat or threaten you or make you believe something amazing was anything more than a mere apparition unless you are willing to believe it. And I think you know that. For you not only are stubborn like as me, but you full know just as I do how many do go clean to death in that stubbornness never becoming willing to relent at all.

 

[Buzz_B]

They (fallen angels) must know what the truth is, so they can inspire those who wish to teach false teaching to become skillfully contradictory.

In essence I agree, but their haughtiness convinces them they already know far more than they really do. Their hatreds blinds them just as it does humans. And so there is more to their being interested in humans than just to broaden their knowledge of truth as they witness how God works with them. Their aim is to spoil the work God is doing with man. And they can twist in their minds what they see God doing with man just as much as man can twist Scripture. The accusation that God spoiled (or, was spoiling) Job proves that.

You know what I am speaking about, the accusation that the only reason Job appeared to be faithful to God was that God built a protective hedge around him? Which is but one more thing which proves the sons of God spoken of in chapters 1 and 2 are angels. For men would not be making such an accusation. Men would just be claiming Job was either subtly crooked to achieve what he did or just very lucky. Because men quickly give up belief in God, having never physically seen God.

 

[Buzz_B]

No, i don't. Are confusing me with someone else?



Jesus didn't speak of "only" one more age, or age of judgement. The millennial period will involve people being judged. So also will the post millennium new earth period during which the 2nd death is still existing. Thereafter death, including the 2nd death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) & God becomes All "in ALL" (v.28), even in ALL who were in Adam (v.22).



I cited Scripture for multiple future ages (Eph.2:7, Rv.11:15 & many others). Multiple. That means at least 2. Capish?




Of course you are going to believe what you must. And other readers of these posts may benefit. Reply or not. Up to you.



See above.

You do speak of multiple ages. And you do speak of even the sin of blaspheming the holy spirit as being eventually forgiven. I have read in your posts that you say that forgiveness can take places in those many ages. And that equals what I said. When one is judged down they have to be judged up to be forgiven. But I know you. You think forgiveness just means suspending judgment. That is a man's ignorant idea.

And your denial as you started off this post is precisely why I do not even desire to speak to you. You cannot even be honest with yourself and so I cannot hope for your honesty with me.

Even our forgiveness of others requires that we judge them up in our minds and hearts if it is real forgiveness. Otherwise it is just hiding what we think of them away from our consciousness, and when we do that it keeps coming back to haunt us and we experience periods of doubt which they then detect and this causes them to know that deep down in we yet bear a grudge.

 

[Buzz_B]

I do not see any reference to Satan in theses verse I see Adam not Satan. Adam fell from grace. Satan was a liar from the beginning no where is there any reference to Satan's the beginning being in Eden. Both Adam and Satan were in the Garden of Eden and it was God's will for Adam to fall.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!------13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will belike the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.


Satan was never an angel always a liar, he is lying to those who want to believe this.


II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's). This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor.


Satan is masquerading as an angel of light.

See, here is another post I forgot to respond to of yours. LOL. I get literally swamped with posts to respond to. And to make matters worse, I have conversations going on in multiple threads, often with the same result.

I see posters post and it is almost as if everyone ignores them. Not so with my posts. I do not care where it is that I post, many respond. And it is usually because I struck a nerve compelling them to disagree, although often to express agreement.

I find that out in public people are drawn to me in a similar but better way. Everywhere I go I end up in conversation with people I never met before and usually more than one. I go into a store and observe the expression on a strangers face and say a kind word to them and the next thing you know I am into a full blown conversation with them and those who pass-by for some reason also have to stop and join in for a time. I could not put all the phone numbers in the memory in my cell phone. And the reason for that is that I just genuinely love people. You would be surprised how many people are starving for that. I love people so much that this takes the place of the need for a woman in my life. But in this internet format that love I have is not so easily seen. Words just do not convey it as do actions and simple expressions face to face.

So in that sense the spirit is far superior to the written word. But I would not have that without God's written word. The spirit on it formed that into me.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Satan was a Cherubic Angel, a Cherub. Even my spell check excepts that word, "Cherubic", never having edited it in. Cherubs are considered to be a form of rank an angel can bear.

Many Jews will try to claim that is speaking an Eden founded by a human named Eden. And there is such a human Eden shown in the Scriptures. But having thoroughly investigated their claim I am left having to disagree with them. And while I see how you could reason it out the way you do, Adam was never a Cherub that covereth. Adam is clearly said of Paul not to have been deceived, meaning that Adam deliberately chose to side with Eve over God knowing that Eve had chosen to disobey and deciding that he loved her more than God. That is the reason Paul was careful to keep woman relegated. Not because he was being cruel to women but because he was protecting men from their power over a man. I mean if Eve could exert that power over the perfect Adam, we imperfect men are all too easy putty in a woman's hand. (Not meaning it is their fault, but just how they are designed. And we imperfect men must learn to dwell with them according to knowledge.)

 

[GenemZ]

Willing??? Paul was far from willing. Talk about being drawn/forced. John 6:44 Paul was blinded for three days fell to the ground does not sound to willing to me. Acts 9.

You are confusing what God did to get Paul separated from his old way of life quickly... Mistakenly for trying to break Paul's will.

God at some point even draws the reprobate, as seen in Rom 1ff.

"since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God
has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternalpower and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."
Rom 1:19-20​

In the following passage God was drawing those who would turn out to become reprobates ... But, God would only draw them up to a point. That point was when they took what God impressed upon their hearts .... and suppressed what God made known to draw them to Himself, and they began creating lies as the means to suppress what God made known to them about Himself.

"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as
God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and
their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of
their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with
one another." Rom 1:21-24​

If God must drag us and force us to believe? Then God is out of bounds for judging anyone whom He refused to force into salvation!

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood
from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."​

If God has to force us to believe? Then those not forced (dragged) are with excuse!
Its silly to think God forced Paul to believe, but not all the Gentiles who heard Peter's evangelism and believed even while Peter spoke and had not even finished his message. They simply heard and believed without any coercion.

"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message." Acts 10:44​

By the way... John Calvin did not come up with the notion you are proposing here with TULIP. One of his disciples, Theodore Beza, was the one who added to what Calvin taught.

The dragging by force into believing concept was not from the teachings of Calvinism. Its was really Beza-ism.

 

[Buzz_B]

Here it is again: Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:

Many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity. Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature.

Where on the other hand a goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)
NT:2056 ἐρίφων eriphōn 2056 a young goat


On the other hand a goat is also a clean animal, now if you the verse referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal’ so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?

Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.

But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.

Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels


So many of God’s people are goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture.


Is not a goat a clean animal; how can a goat be the unsaved; the unsaved are defiled; Jesus was a Jew and knew all the clean and unclean animal. So you are saying we should throw away all the OT types and dismiss them and replace them with bias Christian assumptions?

OK, I now see the mistake you are making. You will have to really focus to see this, so get yourself prepared.

Matthew 25:41 is speaking to those who have the responsibility of loving and caring for God's belongings as well as cooperating with Christ and the angels in doing this separating work. They are the preachers and teachers who bear heavier responsibility as James spoke about. The ten virgins.

The virgins he talked about in the beginning of that chapter, the 5 discreet virgins are that attracting force used of God on the right side and the 5 foolish virgins are that attracting force used of God on the left side. These were charged to care for what were, prior to judgment, just called “belongings.”

Being a sheep or a goat is a judgment of God, it is not a decision we make about our self. That designation is what is finally being decided for a final time in Mathew 25.

Who those belongings choose to let themselves be drawn to, whether to the discreet virgins or to the foolish virgins, is what reveals whether they are a sheep or a goat, for his sheep know his voice as he calls to them through the discreet virgins. (Similar to Revelation 22:17)

The theme of that chapter really is: “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?” Matthew 24:45

This point relates to what I was trying to get people to see about 1 Corinthians 3:15. No guarantee is being given that these builders of the church will be saved but “if so” meaning that they might (as in some of them) be saved. Some Bible translations tend to hide that fact.

This all as I have explained thus far is what the follow means:

Proverbs 16:4 “Yahweh hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.”

Of course few want to see that 1 Cor 3 is speaking primarily about the preachers and the teachers who were fellow builders with Paul (1 Corinthians 3:10) those 5 discreet and 5 foolish virgins helping to build the church. But if they would pay attention to proper Greek grammar rules it is inescapable.

It is a mistake to try to compare this to those baby goats in the way you would like to be able to do, though it is certainly not evil of you to want to. It just shows a bit of misplaced kindness on your part.

If you want to make a proper comparison, let the Scriptures make it for you:

Proverbs 21:18 “The wicked shall be a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright.”

And in this scenario we have discussed we can see better why.

Edit: I want to address this also: You said, "But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire."

No this is no immediate judgment in our day but runs from the time we are born and at least 8 days old (a day for a year) until our death. By that time God has given us ample time to mature if we would. And it only takes turning into a baby lamb (the babe in Christ) to be on the right side.

So the age of accountability is about 8 years old. And this is shown also in that Israelite babes were not considered fully weaned until they reached seven years old, the age Samuel was before he could begin preparation to be presented to the service of the high priest, Eli. Israelite young men did not generally marry until in their mid twenties.

 

[ClementofA]

I have read in your posts that you say that forgiveness can take places in those many ages.

I've already said you are wrong. Now it is two times. If you still think otherwise, produce the quote where i said what you claim.

And that equals what I said. When one is judged down they have to be judged up to be forgiven.

What are you talking about? Those terms need defining, if you wish anyone to understand the terminology.

But I know you. You think forgiveness just means suspending judgment. That is a man's ignorant idea.

I've never remarked upon the subject to you.

And your denial as you started off this post is precisely why I do not even desire to speak to you. You cannot even be honest with yourself and so I cannot hope for your honesty with me.

God bless. (Mt.5)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Buzz_B]

Does not matter how careful if we do not have that divine part of God within us as a to lead and guide us into all truth than we are in error. God's Word is a far cry from studying science or math and far more amazing and complex it is the spiritual Word of God

“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts........” Colossians 3:15...peace, the umpire and ruling principle

The word “rule” used in our text comes from the Greek word, “brabeuo”, meaning TO ACT AS JUDGE OR PRESIDENT. Let PEACE be the ruling principle to decide and settle with finality all arising issues. We give three other translations to help bear out the scope of meaning:

“Let the ruling principle in your hearts be Christ’s peace, for in becoming members of one body you have been called under its sway. (Goodspeed).



“Let the peace which Christ gives settle all questionings in your hearts....(Weymouth).

“(act as umpire continually) in your hearts - deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds - , …” (Amplified).

The word PEACE is defined as: a state of tranquility or quiet; freedom from fears, agitating passions, etc. including freedom from moral conflict. What conflict we endure trying to decide if the matter be right, or wrong; not necessarily if it be sinful or holy, but to decide which are the right issues, the right step, or the right stand to take. And so for all of this, what should become the ruling factor in making decisions?

LET THE PEACE OF GOD ACT AS THE UMPIRE.

“(act as umpire continually) in your hearts - deciding and settling with finality all questions that arise in your minds - , …” (Amplified).

"Let" indicates it is a choice we make to allow it. And that is also what Paul meant when he said the following toward the end of his letter to the Colossians:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." 1 Corinthians 11:31

A similar situation:
Philippians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus..."

The Greek word for let, "freno", is a verb denoting actively exercising some quality of our mind as regards our emotions and sentiments and choice of beliefs, and other faculties we posses in the image of God. The word comes up from "fren", meaning, "to rein in or curb" those same things in the sense of not going to access with them. Whereas "freno" is about not failing to use them. The two words form a kind of balance to our choices which are involved in self-discipline.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

See, here is another post I forgot to respond to of yours. LOL. I get literally swamped with posts to respond to. And to make matters worse, I have conversations going on in multiple threads, often with the same result.

I see posters post and it is almost as if everyone ignores them. Not so with my posts. I do not care where it is that I post, many respond. And it is usually because I struck a nerve compelling them to disagree, although often to express agreement.

I find that out in public people are drawn to me in a similar but better way. Everywhere I go I end up in conversation with people I never met before and usually more than one. I go into a store and observe the expression on a strangers face and say a kind word to them and the next thing you know I am into a full blown conversation with them and those who pass-by for some reason also have to stop and join in for a time. I could not put all the phone numbers in the memory in my cell phone. And the reason for that is that I just genuinely love people. You would be surprised how many people are starving for that. I love people so much that this takes the place of the need for a woman in my life. But in this internet format that love I have is not so easily seen. Words just do not convey it as do actions and simple expressions face to face.

So in that sense the spirit is far superior to the written word. But I would not have that without God's written word. The spirit on it formed that into me.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Satan was a Cherubic Angel, a Cherub. Even my spell check excepts that word, "Cherubic", never having edited it in. Cherubs are considered to be a form of rank an angel can bear.

Many Jews will try to claim that is speaking an Eden founded by a human named Eden. And there is such a human Eden shown in the Scriptures. But having thoroughly investigated their claim I am left having to disagree with them. And while I see how you could reason it out the way you do, Adam was never a Cherub that covereth. Adam is clearly said of Paul not to have been deceived, meaning that Adam deliberately chose to side with Eve over God knowing that Eve had chosen to disobey and deciding that he loved her more than God. That is the reason Paul was careful to keep woman relegated. Not because he was being cruel to women but because he was protecting men from their power over a man. I mean if Eve could exert that power over the perfect Adam, we imperfect men are all too easy putty in a woman's hand. (Not meaning it is their fault, but just how they are designed. And we imperfect men must learn to dwell with them according to knowledge.)

I disagree on your view of Satan. Where does it say that Satan was an anointed Cherub? He is not addressed in the following verses as Satan:

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning---13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will be like the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

It do any mention of Satan here? Yes Lucifer but Satan cannot be Lucifer: O LUCIFER, son of the morning!" This so very often and little understood word comes from the Hebrew word HEYLEL which simply means SHINING ONE (Young's Concordance),

MORNING STAR (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance), BRIGHT STAR or SPLENDID STAR (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon). etc. LUCIFER is the Latin word which was translated from heylel. Heylel is not a proper noun but is a word that tells us something about the one spoke of. The Hebrew does not indicate this is a personal name, not in the remotest sense; nonetheless, the Latin translators rendered it as such.

God’s Word is full of hidden symbolism's and one of my favorite is Jesus being the morning star. You see a morning star is the only star in the dawning of a new day when the sky is as black as night; that small little light shows us no matter how much darkness he is there. I have been though some dark nights and that light is all that matters in so much darkness.


Revelation 2:28
And I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

So are you comparing Satan with Jesus. Both Jesus and Adam were God's sons one ordained to fall the other ordained for Calvary. Satan was a liar and a murderer from his beginning.

I also posted
II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's). This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor.

Here is a spiritual view of Adam before the fall: Adam and Eve were both…NAKED! Among all the creatures which God made, man stands out unique…stark naked…which means devoid of true wisdom and knowledge, with his inner nature revealed, opened up, exhibited, and made bare. Oh, that God may give us understanding to see that to be naked means to have THE FLESH UNCOVERED AND EXPOSED! In the typology of scripture "the flesh" is the name by which the Holy Spirit designates our outer life of soul and body, our earthly and carnal human nature, literally speaking of that nature which is earthly minded, with its lusts and self-centeredness, its ego and I-will which are in rebellion to the spirit. Thus, the flesh is not the outward, visible man of meat, muscle, and bones, but the nature of the soulical and bodily man. This nature was in man from the beginning, else Eve (who was of the man) could not have been tempted, nor could they have sinned! This nature could be seen to be in them from the time God lowered them out of their pure spirit existence, in the image and likeness of God, investing them with a body of earth so that man became a living soul. But as long as man was caught up in God he was not aware of it — for he was naked and was not ashamed (Gen. 2:25). Have we not all experienced the same thing?

 

[Buzz_B]

I've already said you are wrong. Now it is two times. If you still think otherwise, produce the quote where i said what you claim.



What are you talking about? Those terms need defining, if you wish anyone to understand the terminology.



I've never remarked upon the subject to you.




God bless. (Mt.5)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

I will look back through your post as I have all in pdf in a folder labeled for this thread.

I have no problem checking to see if I am wrong. After all, I force myself to do that in regular intervals even concerning what I myself believe. Over the years that habit has paid off big time in the way of rooting out and correcting ill-perceived ideas.

 

[Buzz_B]

I disagree on your view of Satan. Where does it say that Satan was an anointed Cherub? He is not addressed in the following verses as Satan:

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning---13 For thou hast said in thine heart (mind) I will ascend into heaven, ---- 14 I will be like the most High, 15 yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit, -----16----Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms------.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering-----------in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth -----15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

It do any mention of Satan here? Yes Lucifer but Satan cannot be Lucifer: O LUCIFER, son of the morning!" This so very often and little understood word comes from the Hebrew word HEYLEL which simply means SHINING ONE (Young's Concordance),

MORNING STAR (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance), BRIGHT STAR or SPLENDID STAR (Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon). etc. LUCIFER is the Latin word which was translated from heylel. Heylel is not a proper noun but is a word that tells us something about the one spoke of. The Hebrew does not indicate this is a personal name, not in the remotest sense; nonetheless, the Latin translators rendered it as such.

God’s Word is full of hidden symbolism's and one of my favorite is Jesus being the morning star. You see a morning star is the only star in the dawning of a new day when the sky is as black as night; that small little light shows us no matter how much darkness he is there. I have been though some dark nights and that light is all that matters in so much darkness.


Revelation 2:28
And I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

So are you comparing Satan with Jesus. Both Jesus and Adam were God's sons one ordained to fall the other ordained for Calvary. Satan was a liar and a murderer from his beginning.

I also posted
II Cor. 11:14. It says Satan is able to transform himself into an angel of light, but according to the Greek, the word is not transform -- it is MASQUERADE (Strong's). This is as close as he has ever been to being light -- as a masquerading actor.

Here is a spiritual view of Adam before the fall: Adam and Eve were both…NAKED! Among all the creatures which God made, man stands out unique…stark naked…which means devoid of true wisdom and knowledge, with his inner nature revealed, opened up, exhibited, and made bare. Oh, that God may give us understanding to see that to be naked means to have THE FLESH UNCOVERED AND EXPOSED! In the typology of scripture "the flesh" is the name by which the Holy Spirit designates our outer life of soul and body, our earthly and carnal human nature, literally speaking of that nature which is earthly minded, with its lusts and self-centeredness, its ego and I-will which are in rebellion to the spirit. Thus, the flesh is not the outward, visible man of meat, muscle, and bones, but the nature of the soulical and bodily man. This nature was in man from the beginning, else Eve (who was of the man) could not have been tempted, nor could they have sinned! This nature could be seen to be in them from the time God lowered them out of their pure spirit existence, in the image and likeness of God, investing them with a body of earth so that man became a living soul. But as long as man was caught up in God he was not aware of it — for he was naked and was not ashamed (Gen. 2:25). Have we not all experienced the same thing?

So you disagree then. That is that. It tells me you are not about to budge on it. And it is a fact of life that if a person believes staunchly that blue is green hundreds who tell the blue is blue will have no effect.

I will look you post over when I get time. But I am also going to take my time.

I can tell you right away that you do think somewhat as I do about the flesh not meaning the physical body. It is actually a sort of spirit itself being spoken about. I prefer not to call it soulical, for soul encompasses far more that just what that word "flesh" as in "carnal flesh or mind" refers to.

Souls does include the meat body. It includes every detail of a man. It is a word describing the complete package. And that complete package is what God protects for a righteous man that we not not destroy the unity of the soul temporarily.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

"Let" indicates it is a choice we make to allow it. And that is also what Paul meant when he said the following toward the end of his letter to the Colossians:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." 1 Corinthians 11:31

A similar situation:
Philippians 2:5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus..."

The Greek word for let, "freno", is a verb denoting actively exercising some quality of our mind as regards our emotions and sentiments and choice of beliefs, and other faculties we posses in the image of God. The word comes up from "fren", meaning, "to rein in or curb" those same things in the sense of not going to access with them. Whereas "freno" is about not failing to use them. The two words form a kind of balance to our choices which are involved in self-discipline.

My real relationship with God started when i received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the earnest of my inheritance on an air craft carrier berthing area in 1971. I believe in not just words when it comes to God's Spirit I believe in an intimate relationship. I see the spiritual walk as a singular relationship. To many people know God's Spirit only because they read it in the Bible and they claim the words not the relationship.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel
of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy
Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (KJV)

That is what makes our God so amazing. You look at David and Moses and Jesus and there intimacy in conversation with God. This should be the case with God's Spirit of truth with believers today but so many only know the words of the Bible not the relationship of God's Spirit.

 

[Buzz_B]

My real relationship with God started when i received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is the earnest of my inheritance on an air craft carrier berthing area in 1971. I believe in not just words when it comes to God's Spirit I believe in an intimate relationship. I see the spiritual walk as a singular relationship. To many people know God's Spirit only because they read it in the Bible and they claim the words not the relationship.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel
of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy
Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (KJV)

That is what makes our God so amazing. You look at David and Moses and Jesus and there intimacy in conversation with God. This should be the case with God's Spirit of truth with believers today but so many only know the words of the Bible not the relationship of God's Spirit.

I agree completely as I know the experience and the power of that relationship. But I know it is not one we can take for granted. I can feel the spirit back off when it does and know that it is doing so because I need to owe up to something and correct it. And oh how I hate that feeling when it draws back a bit to signal me to get back on track! It sends me rushing to make the necessary adjustments. That is how it works rather than doing it for us as many claim.