knucklehead said:
When I went back out, I had stopped going to meetings and was working too many hours. It was before I had came back to God also. I simply forgot and thats speaks to the power this thing has over me. When i drank again, the only thing I drank was mouthwash. Normal people don't drink mouthwash. My wife is in recovery and I knew that she would pick right up on me if I drank beer or hard liquor. I was busted the day before my sobriety date. She put it too me, " quit or were through ".
I'm sorry this happened to you.
I haven't been to an AA meeting in a year or more. In fact, I have probably only gone to 5 meetings in the last 4 years. I stay sober and away from this sin issue by recognizing my Identity in Christ, prayer, studying the Word, being an active participant in the Body of Christ, and talking with youth who have this same sin issue.
knucklehead said:
No, not at all. As every alcoholic knows, we can pick up a drink anytime we want. I have money in my pocket and the liquor store is open.We never know if we will be able to get sober again. People who choose to drink again, sometimes die. Thats the reality of it.
I'm free from the compulsion to drink, as long as I don't forget that I'm an alcoholic. If I'm not working the steps (turning my will over, doing a daily inventory, desiring to come into closer contact with God, etc,etc) and helping another alcoholic, I'll forget. I've proven that to myself and seen it too many times to count.
Jesus heals some alcoholics completly. They are done with it. That is not my case and for me to think otherwise is foolishness. I am where Jesus put me. In A.A.
Yes, I would tend to agree that some people need AA and there is nothing wrong with that. I did at one point in time as well, however, I eventually came to a point where I wanted complete freedom, and I have found it!
It is my opinion that everybody can have complete freedom. In fact, it exists already in all Christian brothers and sisters. One just has to believe in it.
knucklehead said:
I can relate to you on this point. The important thing to remember is, athiest's and agnostics are sober working this program where they wouldn't be otherwise. If they are sober, they are able to think, examine their beliefs, and they are surrounded by people who believe and are sharing their faith. This may be the only place they encounter believers and with the common bond of recovery, the believers cannot be easily dismissed as nuts.
Oh, I know full well there are atheists and agnostics within the walls of AA. I was once an agnostic myself, however, even as an agnostic I still thought some people's higher powers were ridiculous.
knucklehead said:
Like you, I don't hear Jesus's name brought up in meetings. There is no reason why He shouldn't be praised though. Our stories are our stories and some may be offended by the mention of Jesus, but to some, it may mean everything. I mention His name and it's my experience and strength, so who can say I can't?
Oh, I mentioned His name all the time as well, however, I always got dirty looks. I was even confronted on it a few times. This didn't stop me, but I did come to see this behavior as hypocritical, and I was made to not feel a part of even though that goes against the Primary Purpose.
Well, that's good that you keep praising Him, and I pray that you continue to do so.
knucklehead said:
I gotta disagree with you on this one.Alcoholics react differently to alcohol. Physical allergy coupled with a mental obsession. I could function with a blood alcohol level of .35, whereas a non-alcoholic would be unconscious. My will to drink was stronger than anything else in my life including my love for my wife, my desire to not hurt the ones I love, and my will to live. I'll go with the American Medical Association on this one. I have the disease of alcoholism. No doubt.
Oh, I don't deny that I have a stronger urge to entertain the sin of drunkeness than other sins. I think this is true of all people. In other words, we are drawn to some sins more so than others. For example, I have never had too many problems with sexual sin or drugs or other types of sin.
I also don't deny the physiological addiction which occurs with people who are drawn to alcohol. Yes, of course that occurs. What I am saying is that I have come to dismiss the idea that alcoholism is a traditional and contemporary disease.
My brother is a diabetic. This is a disease or a particular condition. He can't help it, and having this disease was not his fault. He also can't quit being a diabetic. He will be one all his life. Now, does the disease concept of alcoholism compare to diabetes? I don't think so. We can quit drinking. We also are responsible for the things we did as a drunk. In other words, we could have chosen to behave differently, but we didn't. The disease concept overshadows personal responsibility and choice which is why I dismiss it.
Is sexual addiction going to be called a disease next? Or homosexuality?
knucklehead said:
Sure, alcoholics commit sin. It's no a sin to be an alcoholic though, any more than it's a sin to be schitzophrenic or diabetic or have cancer. There was a time, way back when I first started drinking, that I could have chosen to not drink. I blew right past that though and with no spiritual or mentel defense against alcohol, I had no choice but to drink for years. All compulsion to drink, no desire to stop.
How did you stop then? If alcoholism is a disease and you couldn't stop for years and years, how did you stop?
If being a drunkard is not a sin, why do you think it is mentioned in God's Word as one?
knucklehead said:
We are never free of fault in any sin we commit. Being a fallen human is against God and His rightous standards. We are born stained with sin. Saying that my alcoholism is a disease does not free me from responsibility of my actions. My actions were wrong no matter what the cause or motivation.
If your actions were wrong no matter what the cause or motivation, than you are responsible for all the times you drank too much and acted poorly. You are proving my point.
Think about this: If you say alcoholism is a disease, why shouldn't that absolve you from the wreckage you created by drinking? Doesn't saying it is a disease mean that you couldn't help what you did? In fact, if it is a disease why do we even have to make amends for the things that we couldn't help doing as a drunk?
knucklehead said:
When A.A. says that alcoholism is a disease, we are not absolving the alcoholic from responsibility, but putting him on notice that from this point on, he will be held accountable, that there is a choice where there was none before. It's akin to the old argument, " is sin still a sin if you have no knowledge of it being so?"
Again, if there was never a choice before, how did you come to quit?
Are you saying that you didn't know about the wreckage you were creating as a drunk? Heck, I always knew what I was doing was wrong unless I had a blackout. I just didn't care. That's where I was at. I knew, and I just didn't care.
knucklehead said:
When I drank, all I knew was sin. Alcoholics Anonymous has drawn me back to God, shown me that I can live sober, given me the precious oppurtunity to help another hurting alcoholic. I admitted that I'm an alcoholic and that alcoholism has beaten me. When I surrendered, I won. I am as free in Christ as any other believer. Like I said before, all my roads lead back to AA. It is ahere Jesus wants me to be, no doubt.It's folly for me to question his will.
I'm glad that you say "you have been drawn back to God". My point to you is that God never left you. He was inside of you all the time. You beat yourself. This is why it's so important to realize that we are free in Christ and that He is in control. We carry around Jesus where ever we go. He is with us at AA meetings, Church, the supermarket, at the lake, at home, and everywhere else! I don't need to go to any particular place to know who I am or to realize that God is there. This is what I have meant by freedom.
Knucklehead, please don't think I am knocking AA. I am glad that you are sober and that you feel AA is the place for you. I just pray that you find what I have found. I truly mean what I have stated: I am completely free in Christ. And you can be too!
In Christ,
SOTK
