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Alcohol

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by iampauluk, Nov 1, 2014.

  1. iampauluk

    iampauluk Newbie

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    I get abit confused on this topic...
    Is it ok to drink alcohol in moderation or is is noted basically not to drink alcohol at all? because Jesus did turn water into wine and disciples did drink the wine, so is it ok in moderation as i say or does it go on certain people's own beliefs and does anyone know any Christians (etc) who drink alcohol? :confused:
     
  2. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse just horsing around

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    Everyone has their own opinion on this one.

    Certain denominations abstain from alcohol as a matter of doctrine.

    Other denominations use wine for Communion, and have no problems with drinking alcohol as long as drunkenness and addiction do not occur.

    My family and I favor the latter group. My wife and I no longer drink due to medical conditions, but we had no moral or other problems with it when we did.

    Our pastor brings a bottle of wine whenever he's invited to dinner.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  3. LoveToTeach

    LoveToTeach Guest

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    It is my understanding that in Biblical times the water wasn't safe to drink which is why so many people drank wine. I could be wrong though so I will watch this thread to see the other replies.
     
  4. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse just horsing around

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    Yes, this is true today in many 3rd-world countries. Natural wine contains 12%-13% alcohol, which kills most bacteria.

    Some people insist that wine was commonly diluted to a low percentage of alcohol, and that Jesus made this "watered-down" wine at Cana. Such wine would be as unsafe as water, and the Scriptures don't support this idea - it's just a "fig leaf" for the non-alcohol crowd.
     
  5. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    What I struggle with is the argument, read into the account of the marriage at Cana, that the Lord Jesus did not actually turn the water into real wine. Just because some fundamentalists are nostalgic about Prohibition, does not mean they can take liberties with the text of Scripture.

    My wife and I don't drink alcohol, as it happens.
     
  6. seashale76

    seashale76 Orthodox Christian and Unapologetic Iconodule

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    Yes.

    Drinking a glass of Malbec right now.
     
  7. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding

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    I don't think Christians have to totally abstain, but individuals might need to if it's a problem for them (but that's pretty much the same for everyone). It's drunkenness which is the problem. But can a man have a meal without being a glutton? Of course. Can a man have a drink without being a drunkard? Of course.
     
  8. TheBear

    TheBear Free Agent

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    Use common sense. Excessive use of alcohol is not good, ever. Moderate and social drinking shouldn't be a moral issue. It should be up to the individual. Everybody's different.
     
  9. iampauluk

    iampauluk Newbie

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    Thank You for the reply's i now understand more
     
  10. Autumnleaf

    Autumnleaf Legend

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    Alcohol is fine. Drunkenness is generally frowned upon.
     
  11. Nithavela

    Nithavela My spell of light blinds the monster!

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    Rule 2: Use Alcohol in moderation.
    Rule 9: Don't use alcohol.
     
  12. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    I would imagine most Christians drink alcohol and the vast majority drink in moderation.
     
  13. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    Running water, wells and aquducts were common sources of drinking water throughout history. It could be riskier than drinking wine I suppose which why this myth exists... but there was no gigantic wine and beer making industry that supplied the world with potable alcoholic beverages because the water was just too dangerous to drink.

    Also for that matter ancient wine wasn't like modern wine. It was watered down because they didn't know how to control the level of fermentation and ancient wine was far far more alcoholic than what we buy at the grocery store. Undiluted ancient wine would be more like hard liquor in alcoholic content.

    Personally. A bit of coffee in my Irish Creme in the morning adds a nice flavor.
     
  14. Nithavela

    Nithavela My spell of light blinds the monster!

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    Beer was drunk, because it was safer, but not because of the (generally low) alcohol amount, but because the water was boiled during the making.
     
  15. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    Was also a very different kind of beer. And different cultures had different attitudes on it. Drinking beer in Rome? How.... Provincial of you.


    For anyone that's interested, this blog has a nice write up on the whole beer and wine vs water thing. http://leslefts.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-great-medieval-water-myth.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2014
  16. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    Pretty much
     
  17. keith99

    keith99 sola dosis facit venenum

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    Bolding mine.

    This is grossly incorrect.
     
  18. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    I wouldn't mind a explanation for why it's grossly incorrect. Ancient wine has been described by ancient writers as capable of catching fire from a candle which would tend to cause one to believe it was capable of being much stronger than your typical grocery store wine. In particular there was no understanding of using sulfites to control fermentation during the ancient period.. Sulfites were sometimes used but not with understanding of the effect from what I can dig up.

    The strength could have come from the storage method used, with some methods absorbing water from the wine thus raising the alcoholic content rather than purely coming from the fermentation process as most yeasts die off around 16% yes?

    Perhaps would be more conservative to say they watered wine down to create a more consistent product.
     
  19. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    Among Christians it's a denominational legalism--Baptists, Mormons, and some other fundamentalists mainly. I've heard it developed
    as a way to reinforce the separation from Catholicism. Which uses wine ceremonially. It's like how Paul downplayed the OT legalisms in order to distinguish Christianity from Judaism.

    Devout Muslims are very strict teetotalers. Abstention from intoxicants is also one the Buddha's 5 moral precepts.
     
  20. keith99

    keith99 sola dosis facit venenum

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    Bolding mine.

    That is the reason. and that is a pretty absolute. Fermentation stops earlier if the sugars are all gone. Fairly recent advances have created yeasts that can take far more alcohol content before dying.

    That is the reason.

    I had not heard the claims of ancient writers. I do not find that believable unless it is talking about fortified wines. Some people forget distillation has been around for a long time. Historically sweet wines are created by adding alcohol to kill off the yeast before all the sugars are converted.

    I do not know about wine in regards to adding water for consistency, but for Whiskey it is common. And it is not just for consistency, at that alcohol level too strong hurts the taste. The right amount of water makes for a better sipping whiskey.

    I think I missed badly on your level of knowledge. Sorry, I see too many whose knowledge is sadly lacking here. I'll try to remember you and avoid repeating my mistake.

    I know the lines of words are different in different languages. I'm now wondering if perhaps the word translated allows a different direction from what i had thought of before. The teetotalers keep insisting it is (not just could be) grape juice. I've thought that 'grape squeasings' was a good translation. Considering that a lot a moonshiners refer to their product as corn squeasings I'm wondering if ancient references that get translated as wine could well include what we call brandy.
     
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