Alcohol

[stelow]

So a Christian who has never been tempted to over consume, drinks their alcohol in moderation and another Christian sees that drinking is ok but is lead into drinking alcohol in excess, causing him to stumble, would run contrary to the teachings of scripture also.

Romans 14:13-23
13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[stelow]

Do you not see that the condemnation of judgement does great dammage as well? You condemn them and they will want to drink all the more. Pray and trust that GOD will lead them down the right path.



I agree with this, each man will be held accountable for himself. This is why self-control is preached by the apostles. And it applies to every thing, not just alcohol consumption.

Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

This is as apposed to condemning them.

I don't have a clue what you're talking about, I'm saying we shouldn't promote alcohol use, how is that condemning anyone?

 

[NatalieJan777]

I think this is more in an application setting. Do not do anthing to offend your brother/sister. I would think it evil to invite a recovering alcholic to a party/dinner/feast and offer alcoholic beverage. I do not think anyone who is saying 'who are we to judge' would willingly do the same either.

 

[NatalieJan777]

No one is promoting, they are defending their rights based on scripture.

 

[stelow]

No one is promoting, they are defending their rights based on scripture.

That sounds very self centered.

 

[NatalieJan777]

That sounds very self centered.

Is it? You say that one must not drink to be a christian, when biblically you have no basis to say such a thing. We come with scripture saying that GOD does not condemn the use of drink, and yet you still do not believe this truth. It is truth, not selfishness.

 

[stelow]

Is it? You say that one must not drink to be a christian, when biblically you have no basis to say such a thing. We come with scripture saying that GOD does not condemn the use of drink, and yet you still do not believe this truth. It is truth, not selfishness.

Your statement about what I say, is a lie, never said anything of the sort.

 

[dies-l]

I still think it's sad that Christians want to defend alcohol consumption.

I don't believe Jesus was a glutton or a drunkard, so I don't see what false claims about Jesus proves.

Who said that Jesus was a drunkard? I only said that He likely had a glass of wine once in a while. Would that make him a drunkard?

Also it's a fact that a percentage of Christians that are taught that drinking in moderation is clearly ok, will go on to become alcoholics.

As will a percentage of those who are taught that drinking is a vile sin and must never be done. A percentage of people who are taught that sex is okay in marriage will become sexually abusive to their spouses.

Jesus was very serious when it came to anything that would come between us and Him, alcohol would be included as something that could do that.

For some people (myself included), yes. For others, alcohol is not a stumbling block at all. I don't judge those who can and do drink in moderation. I don't dr

I have stated clearly what I believe the scriptures teach, so really there's no reason for me to continue trying to convince people who want to drink alcohol or promote it, they shouldn't.

You've told us what you believe, but I don't see where you have said anything about what the Scriptures teach. You are entitled to your opinion, and if you feel that way, I encourage you to abstain from drinking. I would only suggest to you that this is not a moral commandment that applies to everyone.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Your statement about what I say, is a lie, never said anything of the sort.

A "lie" implies intent to deceive. Let's be careful with our use of words. At worst, this was just a misunderstanding.

 

[stelow]

Is it? You say that one must not drink to be a christian, when biblically you have no basis to say such a thing. We come with scripture saying that GOD does not condemn the use of drink, and yet you still do not believe this truth. It is truth, not selfishness.

A "lie" implies intent to deceive. Let's be careful with our use of words. At worst, this was just a misunderstanding.

She states that I said one must not drink to be a Christian, quote me as to where I said that.

 

[stelow]

Who said that Jesus was a drunkard? I only said that He likely had a glass of wine once in a while. Would that make him a drunkard?

Luke 7:34
34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."

This is the scripture I was referring to, I don't believe Jesus was a glutton or a drunkard.

So now that there are some here who are defending alcohol, are beginning to twist and distort the conversation, I have nothing further to say about the subject.

 

[jonathan180iq]

She states that I said one must not drink to be a Christian, quote me as to where I said that.

I'm not saying that you said that. I just don't think she was trying to deceive. It was a misunderstanding or a misquote. Not a lie.

 

[stelow]

I'm not saying that you said that. I just don't think she was trying to deceive. It was a misunderstanding or a misquote. Not a lie.

I think different.

 

[dies-l]

Luke 7:34
34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."

This is the scripture I was referring to, I don't believe Jesus was a glutton or a drunkard.

So now that there are some here who are defending alcohol, are beginning to twist and distort the conversation, I have nothing further to say about the subject.

It was not my intention to distort the conversation. I am just trying to understand your position. Where, in Scripture, do you find basis for your conclusion that Christians should not consume alcohol or support others' decision to do so?

 

[NatalieJan777]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about, I'm saying we shouldn't promote alcohol use, how is that condemning anyone?

Let us look at this truthfully and honestly.

Promote = to contribute to the growth or prosperity of

Condemn = to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation

Now you say that we are promoting the use of something that is wrong, this brother is condemnation in itself.

I say we are not promoting but speaking biblical truth that the use of alcohol is not wrong. Each person must weigh all biblical facts (evidence) and come to the truth that they know. You believe we are promoting something that is wrong, when in fact it is not wrong. We are not out in the streets peddling alcohol to minors and such. We are defending truth of scripture as not to lead anyone astray by the teachings of man.

It are those who live for it (idolatry) and put it above the Lord in this life, that do the wrong, not the use of alcohol itself. Those who drink with the knowledge of self control are not doing anything evil. Because the Word of GOD itself does not condemn this person for doing so.

 

[Aibrean]

So a Christian who has never been tempted to over consume, drinks their alcohol in moderation and another Christian sees that drinking is ok but is lead into drinking alcohol in excess, causing him to stumble, would run contrary to the teachings of scripture also.

Romans 14:13-23
13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

See what I've highlighted: that is the point of the verse. Not the drinking of wine in itself, not even getting drunk yourself. It's causing YOUR BROTHER to stumble, be offended, or be made weak. You have to understand the context of the verse. Additionally, most of us have eaten flesh (the skin of chicken, fish, etc).

 

[jcnwog]

Since I already replied to this thread I will elobrate again. I see nothing wrong drinking alcohol at all. It is how much you drink that matters. If your doing it because of peer pressure just to fit in because your other friends are doing it then your motive is wrong.

We are not followers of this world but are leaders to this world to show them the light, which is christ himself!

Why, get drunk or blackout and then go to church the next day. That example alone is telling a non believer its okay to get drunk and go to church so they will say I'm a christian to make themselves look and sound good but still get drunk.

Nothing is wrong on this earth it boils to how your using it. Alcoholic beverages have shown to be a good source curing of health problems but indulging yourself with large amounts leads to you destroying the temple of god.

But I see no where in the bible does it mention not to drink alcohol. The church and many others have said drinking is wrong because it makes the christian character look bad. And that has been going on for many generations, the same with nudity. Nothing is wrong with nudity but man himself made it an sexual item and the results "sex sells".

Its the way you use things in life.

Amen, let god be the judge and convict you in that individual spirit.

A human can't change another human only the heavenly father Jesus Christ!

Sent via BlackBerry

 

[NatalieJan777]

I know this is off topic, but I disagree with your nudity comment. I would feel utter disgrace to be in front of another nude, and I don't think this comes from myself. I have felt this way since a child and I am not so sure that the disgrace I feel is not from GOD.

No where in the bible does it even speak of going around without clothing, so this too I would consider a teaching of man. ie " Nothing is wrong with nudity". It could just be because I am a female, I do not know. But I feel strongly that it is wrong.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I know this is off topic, but I disagree with your nudity comment. I would feel utter disgrace to be in front of another nude, and I don't think this comes from myself. I have felt this way since a child and I am not so sure that the disgrace I feel is not from GOD.

No where in the bible does it even speak of going around without clothing, so this too I would consider a teaching of man. ie " Nothing is wrong with nudity". It could just be because I am a female, I do not know. But I feel strongly that it is wrong.

I've often wondered about this. When we're little kids, like less than two, who ever had a problem walking around naked? My 2 two year old sure doesn't and I think the same is true for most little kids. They don't naturally feel ashamed. It comes later in life, once we have an understanding of self image (knowledge of good and evil?) I don't know. I'm just saying.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Possibly I would agree, I just stated how I feel about it and I am certain it isn't something this world has driven into me. It is something in my heart that I know to be inappropriate. And it is an overwhelmingly strong feeling to cover my own nakedness.

GOD covered Adam and Eve's nakedness for a reason. If HE didn't think it was important why did HE bother at all?

Genisis 3:21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.