Alcohol

[jonathan180iq]

People having a need for a clean source of drinking water, to consume daily thousands of years ago, does not justify the type of alcohol consumption we see in today's society.

I'm not making that comparison at all.

I know this has gotten off topic.

Just a quick explanation of what I'm talking about.
http://www.pnwwaterweb.com/WQFlyers_PNW131.pdf

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

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[SpiritualAntiseptic]

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[stelow]

I personally know alcoholics, and as long as they drink they will deny they have a problem with drinking and will use any means to justify their continued use of alcohol.

 

[stelow]

I'm not making that comparison at all.

I know this has gotten off topic.

Just a quick explanation of what I'm talking about.
http://www.pnwwaterweb.com/WQFlyers_PNW131.pdf

I'm the one making the comparison, alcoholics will use any excuse possible to justify their drinking.

 

[stelow]

So is addiction to food, but many Christians are gluttons who condemn alcohol.

You might try to compare food to alcohol but there's a big difference.

The more heavily you drink every day, the more likely you will develop alcohol withdrawal symptoms when you stop drinking. The likelihood of developing severe withdrawal symptoms also increases if you have other medical problems.
Symptoms

Mild-to-moderate psychological symptoms:

• Jumpiness or nervousness
• Shakiness
• Anxiety
• Irritability or easy excitability
• Rapid emotional changes
• Depression
• Fatigue
• Difficulty thinking clearly
• Bad dreams

Mild-to-moderate physical symptoms:

• Headache -- general, pulsating
• Sweating -- especially the palms of the hands or the face
• Nausea and vomiting
• Loss of appetite
• Insomnia (sleeping difficulty)
• Pallor
• Rapid heart rate
• Eye pupils enlarged(dilated pupils)
• Clammy skin
• Tremor of the hands
• Involuntary, abnormal movements of the eyelids

Severe symptoms:

• Delirium tremens -- a state of confusion and visual hallucinations
• Agitation
• Fever
• Convulsions
• Black outs -- when the person forgets what happened during the drinking episode

Source: Alcohol withdrawal: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

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[dies-l]

I personally know alcoholics, and as long as they drink they will deny they have a problem with drinking and will use any means to justify their continued use of alcohol.

Alcoholics should not drink. I don't think that anyone will disagree with you there. But, most people are not alcoholics. For those who do not struggle with this disease, there is no moral reason to abstain completely from alcohol. Scripture is clear that Jesus and Paul both condoned moderate alcohol consumption. Scripture is also clear that being a drunkard is not acceptable. We now know that some people have a disease call alcoholism that causes them to have no self-control in regard to alcohol. For such people, the only way to avoid drunkenness is to abstain completely. But, to insist that, because some people are alcoholics, all people should abstain, is misguided.

But, you are right. Alcoholics who are active in their addiction will use any excuse to justify their alcohol abuse. This does not mean, however, that everyone who drinks or who denies that that they have a drinking problem is an alcoholic.

 

[stelow]

I do not agree that the scripture is clear that Jesus and Paul condoned moderate alcohol consumption, it's seems rather sad to me that as Christians we need to be convinced drinking alcohol is a sin, except for a medical reason.

I could just see witnessing to someone with an alcoholic beverage in your hand.
I would think the person being witnessed to would think, what a hypocrite.

 

[dies-l]

I do not agree that the scripture is clear that Jesus and Paul condoned moderate alcohol consumption, it's seems rather sad to me that as Christians we need to be convinced drinking alcohol is a sin, except for a medical reason.

It is hard to see why Jesus would make wine or encourage his disciples to drink it in remembrance of him if he thought that drinking was immoral. Context makes clear that Jesus did not turn water into grape juice and that the Lord's Supper, in Paul's day, was not bread and grape juice. I am glad that contemporary culture makes it easier to abstain from alcohol if one so chooses, but Scripture is quite clear that total abstinence is not commanded of all believers and was even condoned, if not advised by Jesus and Paul.

I could just see witnessing to someone with an alcoholic beverage in your hand.
I would think the person being witnessed to would think, what a hypocrite.

Why would they think that? Biblical Christianity does not teach that drinking alcohol is immoral per se. I suspect that most non-believers would see nothing at all hypocritical about a Christian who exercises self-control in regard to alcohol. Those that would see this as hypocritical would do so only out of a misunderstanding of Biblical teaching on the topic.

I would agree with you that one cannot effectively share the Gospel while under the control of alcohol (i.e., drunk). Also, I would agree that if one cannot maintain self-control while drinking, it is better to abstain. This is the very reason that I, myself, do not drink and have not had a drink since coming into a relationship with God. But, I know many other people who are more than capable of controlled drinking, and there is absolutely no biblical reason that I should expect them not to do so, except perhaps when doing so might cause a weaker brother or sister to stumble.

 

[stelow]

I don't want to stand before Jesus on judgment day and be held accountable for teaching Christians that drinking alcohol in moderation was scriptural.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5:19

 

[PhantomTorment]

I don't drink because I don't have a desire to, and I'm 20 at the moment. I don't think it's wrong as long as you don't get drunk from it.

 

[Aibrean]

I don't want to stand before Jesus on judgment day and be held accountable for teaching Christians that drinking alcohol in moderation was scriptural.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5:19

Jesus never mentioned drinking.

The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[dies-l]

I don't want to stand before Jesus on judgment day and be held accountable for teaching Christians that drinking alcohol in moderation was scriptural.

Nor do I want to be held accountable for claiming that something is immoral that is not necessarily so. Believe me, I understand why one would choose to abstain; I have made this choice for myself. OTOH, I cannot find biblical justification for telling others that they must abstain or that abstinence is commanded by Scripture. It clearly is not, and the clear weight of Scriptural evidence strongly suggests that our Lord and his apostles consumed wine from time to time.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5:19

When did Jesus command that his followers abstain from alcohol?

 

[Aibrean]

dies - that's what I want to know.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Jesus never mentioned drinking.

The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Jesus never mentioned it? Who is the 'son of Man' HE is refering to here? I take this portion of scripture as meaning HE did drink, what was wrong were those who stood in judgement against both John the Baptist and HIMSELF. (ie evil thoughts of others)

Matthew 11:18 - 19 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Our evil thoughts of others will condemn us.

 

[stelow]

I still think it's sad that Christians want to defend alcohol consumption.

I don't believe Jesus was a glutton or a drunkard, so I don't see what false claims about Jesus proves.

Also it's a fact that a percentage of Christians that are taught that drinking in moderation is clearly ok, will go on to become alcoholics. Jesus was very serious when it came to anything that would come between us and Him, alcohol would be included as something that could do that.

I have stated clearly what I believe the scriptures teach, so really there's no reason for me to continue trying to convince people who want to drink alcohol or promote it, they shouldn't.

 

[Aibrean]

In the context of the post, I was referring to Jesus never mentioning drinking as being part of a commandment.

I don't advocate drinking and I don't advocate not drinking. I just am advocating not reading so much into the Bible where you come up with concepts that aren't there. So based on what I see in the Bible it's very clear that overindulging/getting drunk is bad, not drinking itself.

My brother in law died from alcoholism (liver failure at 27). My dad got drunk a lot when I was a kid. I am not saying anything lightly. I didn't drink anything until I was 23. No one else in my family has ever gotten drunk.

It all comes down to your reasons for drinking and the ability to control yourself. If you can't control yourself or you are drinking to be drunk or get rid of pain or something that's not right. There are proven medical benefits to light alcohol consumption and there are proven medical issues related to alcohol consumption. You have to decide what is right for you.

 

[NatalieJan777]

In the context of the post, I was referring to Jesus never mentioning drinking as being part of a commandment.

I realised that after I posted, based on your next comment. Please accept my appologies.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Also it's a fact that a percentage of Christians that are taught that drinking in moderation is clearly ok, will go on to become alcoholics.

Do you not see that the condemnation of judgement does great dammage as well? You condemn them and they will want to drink all the more. Pray and trust that GOD will lead them down the right path.

Jesus was very serious when it came to anything that would come between us and Him, alcohol would be included as something that could do that.

I agree with this, each man will be held accountable for himself. This is why self-control is preached by the apostles. And it applies to every thing, not just alcohol consumption.

Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

This is as apposed to condemning them.