Alcohol

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Here's another question:
Why not replace the work alchohol with....say...Marijuana?

would the opinions be the same?
Would it be ok to smoke just a little pot, if you could control yourself?

Yes.

Pot is illegal because Mexicans smoked it.

 

[laconicstudent]

What you are speaking is complete nonsense.

Wine back then was the same as today. When you squeeze grapes, you get sugars which are fermented by yeast. Wines which have extra alcohol are called 'fortified' and they aren't the typical wines you drink.

I really wish people would stop revising history to fit into a puritan mindset.

*sigh*

As someone with family members working at a distillery, a vineyard and a wine label, I can confirm what SpiritualAntiseptic says. Wine and alcohol was still quite strong back in ancient times.

Modern day wines are not all fortified with additional alcohol. My uncle, aunt and cousins (none of whom are even immediate family, funnily) would be outraged to hear that even suggested.

They didn't drink wine in place of water because the wine was by default weak. It was because they thought water was unhealthy to drink, but that has nothing to do with viruses or bacterial, which they they had no idea even existed.

 

[William777]

Hey all,

I'd like to ask you a question in relation to drinking alcohol, or a few actually.

• Do you drink alcohol?
• What would be your limit in drinking alcohol?
• Do you believe according to the scriptures that it is ok to drink and is there a difference in this between men and women?
• Would you miss drinking alcohol if you stopped today (if applicable).

I promise I come back to answer these myself but would love to read yours also. Thanks.

No, I do not....but what do the scriptures say?

What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'" ..."Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man 'unclean';

You see its not the drink in our hand which makes us unclean but the spirit of debauchery in our heart. Its not the parties we go to but the party spirit we manifest. These are the things which come from our heart and make us unclean. But these are symptoms of an unclean heart and after-all you don't treat symptoms, you treat the disease.

In Christ,
William

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Hey all,



I'd like to ask you a question in relation to drinking alcohol, or a few actually.

• Do you drink alcohol?

• Yes

  [*]What would be your limit in drinking alcohol?

  About 2 or 3 glasses of wine or Champain,Maybe Once or Twice a month or a bottle of beer,Some times a few times a week or once a month.

  Do you believe according to the scriptures that it is ok to drink and is there a difference in this between men and women?

  I read your just not suppose to get drunk.

  Would you miss drinking alcohol if you stopped today (if applicable).

  Not sure.

 

[stelow]

Hey all,


I'd like to ask you a question in relation to drinking alcohol, or a few actually.

• Do you drink alcohol?
• What would be your limit in drinking alcohol?
• Do you believe according to the scriptures that it is ok to drink and is there a difference in this between men and women?
• Would you miss drinking alcohol if you stopped today (if applicable).

I promise I come back to answer these myself but would love to read yours also. Thanks.

Two weeks since the OP started the thread and not one response back from the OP since.

Addiction to alcohol is sending people to their graves daily.

 

[jcnwog]

You are speaking based on your personal preferences, not based on fact or the experiences of others.

I think Kentucky Fried Chicken is gross, but I don't say that the only people who eat that are those with personal problems.

that's why if you looked at my post really thoroughly and not quickly you would of noticed the "imo" in parentheses.

imo- means in my opinion

i wasn't speaking it as a fact, i spoke it based on my surroundings and what i have seen my whole life

have a blessed day

 

[NatalieJan777]

What you are speaking is complete nonsense.

Wine back then was the same as today. When you squeeze grapes, you get sugars which are fermented by yeast. Wines which have extra alcohol are called 'fortified' and they aren't the typical wines you drink.

I really wish people would stop revising history to fit into a puritan mindset.

What you say is interesting. The thought that the water back then was worse, I find somehow hard to believe. With all the waste we put into our water today and the means by which we purify it, makes me believe our water today is worse.

I know biblically that there was a well with bitter water, but not all wells were this way. So I question where this information comes from? I was not there so I certainly can't say whether all the water was not bitter. But common sense tells me that their water could not have been any bitterer than ours today.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Another thing that comes to mind is Lot and the wishes of his daughters to carry on his seed. I am boggled by the words 'He did not know'. Seriously, how much could the man have drank to be oblivious to it all?

 

[wblueskylives]

Another thing that comes to mind is Lot and the wishes of his daughters to carry on his seed. I am boggled by the words 'He did not know'. Seriously, how much could the man have drank to be oblivious to it all?

Using modern day terms? Blackout drunk. There are plenty of stories in which people will get drunk, wake up the next day to someone they don't remember laying next to them, and regret it the rest of the day.

 

[laconicstudent]

What you say is interesting. The thought that the water back then was worse, I find somehow hard to believe. With all the waste we put into our water today and the means by which we purify it, makes me believe our water today is worse.

That doesn't make any sense. Unlike then, we now know about microorganisms, disease pathology and infection. We purify all our drinking water, as opposed to back then when water would be hauled from the nearest body of water, irregardless of whatever unseen parasites it contained or whether or not a decomposing carcass was a few miles upstream

Science shows our water is better with modern purification and treatment.

We do not have "waste" in our drinking water. We spend far too much money filtering it out.

But common sense tells me that their water could not have been any bitterer than ours today.

Waterborne diseases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PROPHECYKID]

That doesn't make any sense. Unlike then, we now know about microorganisms, disease pathology and infection. We purify all our drinking water, as opposed to back then when water would be hauled from the nearest body of water, irregardless of whatever unseen parasites it contained or whether or not a decomposing carcass was a few miles upstream

Science shows our water is better with modern purification and treatment.

We do not have "waste" in our drinking water. We spend far too much money filtering it out.

Waterborne diseases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you see any relation with this to Paul's advice to drink no longer water but drink a little wine for the stomach sake and for thy often infirmities.

Wine was used as a medicine in those days too.

 

[NatalieJan777]

What chemicals are used to purify our water? Show me where the man made chemicals used are better for us than the natural parasite. Man have made cars to get from one place to another as well and I am sure there can be found justification for the damage they do to our air/world. Man need places to live and I am sure there can be found justification for elimination of our rain forests. Look at medicin, how many medications are recalled each year and how many advertisements do you see daily on TV asking that if you were exposed to this, call us so that we can sue for you? These medicins were all approved by charts and graphs provided to the FDA, are they all good? Knowledge increases sorrows (Ecclesiastes 1:18), Solomon was truthful with this statement. You cannot even provide me with concrete facts as to how unclean the water was then, how do you expect to convince me?

 

[NatalieJan777]

Do you see any relation with this to Paul's advice to drink no longer water but drink a little wine for the stomach sake and for thy often infirmities.

Wine was used as a medicine in those days too.

I am just curious about this. And perhaps I am wrong with how I take what Paul is saying. But I've always taken his reference here, since he is speaking to his disciple Timothy, who he is training to become a minister. He tells him the duties before him, stating not to partake in another mans sin, and then afterward again speaking of the sins of man.

Did you ever have the thought that he gives this advice due to stress? Ulcers are caused by stress. I am sure Paul was well aware that GOD alone holds power to heal all illnesses.

Deuteronomy 14:26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.

This is what GOD told them to do with their tithes when they resided in places too far away from HIS temple.

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Anyway, it is just my interpretation which could be wrong.

I just find no other biblical warning against drinking water for the peoples own health benifits. Perhaps you know of others that I am not aware of?

 

[jonathan180iq]

You cannot even provide me with concrete facts as to how unclean the water was then, how do you expect to convince me?

...Go out in the wilderness, with no modern tools, and try and find clean/healthy water.

Unless you come across a Spring at the source (even then, are you sure you want to drink it?), you're not going to be able to do it. There are some really nasty "natural parasites" out there than do indescribable damage to your inside. These can be found even in flowing water and in water that looks very clear. Some of them cannot be boiled off. Boiling actually makes them worse.

You don't need concrete facts about how much Nitrate, Coliform, Lead, or other cysts and viruses etc. were in Middle Eastern water 2,100 years ago. The fact that these natually occurring pests ( having nothing to do with human waste/input) are here now is evidence enough that they were there then.

The issue of clean water, and why ancient peoples drank fermented drinks instead, is as true for people in the Bible as it is for every other ancient culture. A constant supply of fresh water for daily consumption is a relatively modern occurance.

 

[NatalieJan777]

...Go out in the wilderness, with no modern tools, and try and find clean/healthy water.

Today with our population and the damage done by us to the ground water with pesticides and all other sorts of harmful chemicals I am sure that would be close to impossible, unless of course you are living in Alaska.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Today with our population and the damage done by us to the ground water with pesticides and all other sorts of harmful chemicals I am sure that would be close to impossible, unless of course you are living in Alaska.

No. That's what I'm saying. You can go into some pristine wilderness and find some really nasty parasites that are naturally occurring and have nothing at all to do with man-made pollution.

You might be OK drinking it once. But it set up camp and lived there for any period of time, then you would start see yourself and those around you getting sick. This is why ancient people drank other things.

Now, imagine this scenario in the Middle East and you have no knowledge of microorganisms. (The smallest thing you can think of is a mustard seed)
All you know is that drinking the water makes you sick. You don't know why. So you just find something else....wine. Water was used for washing and bathing and, in some instances, flushing but it wasn't used for large scale consumption.

 

[NatalieJan777]

So the parasites were there then too and they did not have the increase of knowledge to know what was making them sick? Only an inclination that it must be the water? I would rather remain stupid about these things then to worry about them, but perhaps that is just me.

Matthew 6:27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

Matthew 6:31-33 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

It is my belief that these words still apply today. Those who purchase the bottled water are only purchasing the un biodegradable plastic that will fill our land fills and haunt future generations. And for what? Worry of thier own health? Not think what it will do down the road to other people.

I am wondering what kind of mutations could be done to these parasites with what we put into our ground water? And still I am not convinced that we ourselves are not the reason for the destruction of our own abode.

 

[jonathan180iq]

....the point I made was nothing more than a simple example of logic leading people away from something that was making them sick...

I'm not referring to modern bottled water. I'm not using bottled/modern water as the constant. You have to think outside of our daily context. Clean water, globally, is something that's hard to get.

Look all over the world at how hard it is for third-world peoples to get clean water.
They can't drink water from their own wells because it makes them sick. They don't know about bacteria. They just know that they can't drink the water. So they use it for cleaning and stuff, but they don't drink it. This isn't a far stretch from ancient people/technology (Obviously this wouldn't include Roman cisterns and other technology available in mega-towns back then.)

I invest in Gospel For Asia's Jesus-Well program. It provides clean water where it is not otherwise accessible and it speads the Gospel on top of that. It doesn't take much to filter water to healthy levels but sometimes the knowledge and the funds to do it just aren't available.

Clean water doesn't just spurt from the ground at every opening, as gracious a God is. We live in a fallen world. Clean water is very hard to get. That's something that we should remember here in the states.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I would rather remain stupid about these things then to worry about them, but perhaps that is just me.

Not to necessarily worry about it. But you have to accept certain things as fact so that you can know to how to face them and deal with them. If it wasn't for modern understandings of pathology, bacteria, viruses, and the like, people would be dying for commong things like the flu or diarrhea.

 

[stelow]

The scriptures do not teach us to be stupid, it's just the opposite, God does not want us to be stupid, it's what we don't know that can kill us.

People having a need for a clean source of drinking water, to consume daily thousands of years ago, does not justify the type of alcohol consumption we see in today's society.