AIDS clock

[ChristianCenturion]

that's why i had the audacity to apologize. i had hoped this would encourage you to talk with some respect. i misjudged you, so i apologize again. instead, you have decided to take the road of selling the wisdom of God as coming through you, that you were just in the way when it landed, and the rest of us have been misled by satan. it is awesome to share this thread with you. i have been undeniably privileged.
it is also nice to know i have met the person who has beaten the odds. i had actually believed that scripture where we have been told that none of us is righteous, not one. but now i have met the guy who "...actually adheres to His instruction...". it must be humiliating for you to be stuck here on earth with us.
i hope folks go to the linked posts and evaluate my ruthlessness. this is really bizarre.

The alleged "apologies" need serious work; until such time, I think I would prefer none.
Since the suggestion to actually address the topic rather than poster seems to elude, perhaps you can help "interpret" this.:

John 3:16-21
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
~~~

I chose a well-known scripture. Now exactly where in that does it say give condoms and needles to people so the "Christians" can "prove their love" to those that wish to continue in sin despite hearing the Gospel?

 

[hernyaccent]

It sickens me that people make this an attack issue on certain groups for their sexual practices.Anyway, I hope I can actually do something to help in this AIDS crisis that fellow humans are suffering through.

 

[belladonic-haze]

it is amazing to me that over twenty years after the discovery of this disease, we still have people that think blaming the victim is part of the solution. let he who is without sin...
one guy acknowledged that the clean needle program might help some, but he still wasn't buying the idea of abetting their use. even if it might help some. if it does, that equates to some people not dying. that's not worth it?
how do we protect the partner that believes they are in a monogamous relationship when they are not? we need to be blind to the victim and be vicious with solutions. our judgment is useless. our love is our responsibility.

I agree. I also agree with the fact that you cannot reach all the people. And a church can play a large role in that.
But you have to start somewhere. Clean needle program, sexeducation way below 18 and not let the parents decide, because many conservative Christians think it will make them more want to have sex, and it is proven that young people take better decission if they have the knowledge about sex. It takes away the curiousity (and curiousity kills the cat.....), condoms that are easy to get, and respect for those who abstain, openess in a relationship. If hubs wants to visit prostitutes make sure that hubs had safe sex! Educate prostitutes and give them free health check-ups.......

There are so many ways to lower the number and to make this clock slower going even stop!

All I want is that people who have HIV or AIDS are taken out of the solitairy social position and considered and be treated like anyone else. It is NOT dangerous to hug an AIDS patient. It is NOT dangerous to kiss him/her on the mouth. it is NOT dangerous to drink from the same cup. It is NOT dangerous to go to the same bathroom....and so on!

And it doesn't matter HOW someone got it. One time having unsafe sex with someone who is HIV+ is enough...ONE time. The AIDS patient didn't had to sleep around like crazy.....And so what if they did. Are they less human? NO!

AIDS patients/HIV+ people have every right on being loved and treated the way we treat other people!

 

[belladonic-haze]

None? Hump and dumps are not always enjoyable for both parties. People, typically down gender lines, tend to have different views as to what is happening. This definitely leads to emotional issues. Being used, feel dirty, feel rejected. I admit this is not always the case, but I think it is not to be laughed at either.

Agreed. But anyone under 18 should not be instructed on such matters without the consent of a parent or gaurdian.

I was talking about consenting adults, not coerced sex/rape. And you might regret doing it, but you do not break down in tears if you consented, you just move on to the next.......whatever it is that you choose. And yes, people do sometimes laugh about it later...

If they are 18 you are WAY too late! And I elborated why in the above post....

 

[belladonic-haze]

I cannot answer all posts....but some people are really blind to the fact that HIV is transmitted:

through sperm
through blood
through vaginal fluids
through mothermilk

And how many victims walk around that got it through blood. The chinese farmers, people who use hemofiliac meds (Thank God that has changed) bloodtransfusion, mistakes in hospitals by using used needles (In africa they have to use them more then once!!!), through the mother during birth (If they know they have HIV that can be avoided.....) breastfeeding (imagine that you have no clue that you are HIV+...and that happens)...........and so on and so on!

And even if sex caused it, so what! We have to help them and find a vaccin or cure for AIDS!!! Every AIDS victim is INNOCENT. The HIV virus is the only guilty one here!!!

 

[reverend B]

The alleged "apologies" need serious work; until such time, I think I would prefer none.
Since the suggestion to actually address the topic rather than poster seems to elude, perhaps you can help "interpret" this.:

John 3:16-21
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
~~~

I chose a well-known scripture. Now exactly where in that does it say give condoms and needles to people so the "Christians" can "prove their love" to those that wish to continue in sin despite hearing the Gospel?

the verse is lovely. notice it describes Jesus as "light". he is love, hope, peace. where is the hope in turning your back on people who's behavior you do not approve of? addiction is an overwhelming force. if hygiene can be supplied while the hand goes out to help break the cycle, it would seem cruel to me to do anything else. you are welcome to disagree. i also do not see where the verse selected says not to use every means possible to save these peoples bodies while the Holy Spirit goes on to work on their souls. for either of us to ask where our interpretation is directly quoted in the verse is an intellectually bankrupt question. our positions must be extrapolated from what we have discovered about Jesus. i am assuming you are more intelligent than that desperately assinine question reflects. feel free to continue this vacant line of thought to prove me wrong. i have a feeling you will.
this does address the op.

 

[mpshiel]

My solution would be what the church are doing now. Reach out, inform, take in, help clean up, help them place one foot in front of the other, comfort the victims, etc. That template goes beyond just injected drug use, but it is also a template that the government (or at least mine) can't "back" or compare in kind.
The premise that the problem will disappear if "we try hard enough" isn't one I buy into... not when there is freedom to do the wrong thing.

This with the exception of the "wrong thing" statement is one I agree with; except I am not sure which churches are being spoken of that are helping Burmese prostitutes or Russian heroin addicts.

I am glad that the "blood merchants" of china are mentioned as the have caused over 1 million infections in the Hunan province of China alone.

The difficulty with HIV/AIDS is multifold, particularly in trying to generate capital to deal with it. One of the greatest problems is the hypocritical nature of statistical reporting or appication - meaning that a level standard is not being used globally. The US takes stats one way (based on sexual orientation) while for entire continants it is taken another way (based on gender or age). A second problem, which is tied to the first is the "culpable" nature which has grown up around HIV due to the stance the US took during the first 8 years of tracking (which was: this is something the gays did to themselves and if they want to stop getting it, then stop doing whatever it is they did to get it). While, as Christians, this may be a very appealing viewpoint, if you hold it and yet don't view people with: colds, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart bypass or even a urinary tract infection in the same way then you are a hypocrite.

We all know (or should know) the ways that colds are passed and infected - yet we don't view people who come to work with runny noses, don't wash thier hands after going to the bathroom or don't get at least 8 hours sleep a night as "deserving to get it" and once they have it, suggest it is a part of thier "life choice" or thier "freedom to do the wrong thing". The same is true for the 100% growth in diabetes over the last generation, which has been directly linked to diet and obesity (to clarify, not all diabetes, but the marked increase in people becoming diabetic).

The way to best defeat HIV is to effectively address the way infection grows by country - which differs - for instance China is through blood and prostitution, Russia is growing at about 1/2 a million a year or more by intravenious drug use, Uganda and Sierra Leone is by matramonial sex (of husbands who return from the mines infected - usually from sexual activies). Brazil - one of the success stories from the third/second world has brought thier infection rate to below that of the USA by agressive education and condom distribution during Carnival, to educating and supporting prositutes and in public education (for these three reasons the US cut all AIDS funding to Brazil).

The problem is that infection is usual rooted in the "disposables" of society - prostitutes, addicts and gays - and while for 2000 years Christians may have been talking the good talk about elimination of sex outside marriage - no Christian town or country (or any country) has ever had a lack of prostitutes. If one only treats those who are perfect, or "deserving" who exactly is going to be treated? Yet, it is hard to tell people that thier taxes are going up because prostitutes need more medical money. That is where the "Panda Factor" comes into play. As wildlife foundations found out - the fact that some lizard or bug is going extinct doesn't open wallets - cute and fuzzy does. So wildlife foundations push the gorillas and the pandas. In the same way, AIDS foundations are much more likely to get money for "poor Africians" as long as they show women, or women and children, or immigrants" which is why no one broadcasts how infections occur in poor countries because it is better sell to show "poor innocents" to get money than gays, drug addicts or prostitutes.

The difficulty with Christianity is the root idea is that NONE are worthy of eternal life. That it is by grace, an undeserving gift by which we are saved (which is quickly turned into making sure that others are not helped or regarded equal to us until they pass our moral test). Funding for AIDS and morality can mix, but only in these two simple rules: 1) God gave us the right to make decisions, both as Christians and non-Christians and by trying to take that away through various means, we are no accepting the other person as an equal human to ourselves and 2) that all people are children of God and thus need to know and feel love whether it is felt they "deserve it" or not.

I have asked my church to switch thier AIDS program from teaching at Africian all girls-schools about sex after marriage (which as we seen is poor education in some countries anyway) to the funding of hospices for drug addicts and prostitutes. This is not because these drug addicts made good decisions or have repented or changed but simply because they are human, they are dying and they are afraid. It would be nice from us to treat them as we wish God treats us - even when we make poor decisions. And yes, to fund free condoms, free needles, free whatever it takes becuase waiting for people to be "good" never cured a single disease - it didn't cure syphallis - a new miracle drug did. But until we find the "miracle" drug the third world can afford - at least give them the chance to make better decisions even if you don't think it is the "best" one.

 

[praying]

:I agree. I also agree with the fact that you cannot reach all the people. And a church can play a large role in that.
But you have to start somewhere. Clean needle program, sexeducation way below 18 and not let the parents decide, because many conservative Christians think it will make them more want to have sex, and it is proven that young people take better decission if they have the knowledge about sex. It takes away the curiousity (and curiousity kills the cat.....), condoms that are easy to get, and respect for those who abstain, openess in a relationship. If hubs wants to visit prostitutes make sure that hubs had safe sex! Educate prostitutes and give them free health check-ups.......

There are so many ways to lower the number and to make this clock slower going even stop!

All I want is that people who have HIV or AIDS are taken out of the solitairy social position and considered and be treated like anyone else. It is NOT dangerous to hug an AIDS patient. It is NOT dangerous to kiss him/her on the mouth. it is NOT dangerous to drink from the same cup. It is NOT dangerous to go to the same bathroom....and so on!

And it doesn't matter HOW someone got it. One time having unsafe sex with someone who is HIV+ is enough...ONE time. The AIDS patient didn't had to sleep around like crazy.....And so what if they did. Are they less human? NO!

AIDS patients/HIV+ people have every right on being loved and treated the way we treat other people!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to belladonic-haze again.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

the verse is lovely. notice it describes Jesus as "light". he is love, hope, peace.

The small portion that actually aligns with what is found in the scripture and no coincidence that is the only portion where "we" agree.

where is the hope in turning your back on people who's behavior you do not approve of?

See, here it goes again - the slanderous accusation that is only true because an accuser has made the statement.
It is such a perverted reality when NOT handing out condoms or needles is "turning your back on people" only then to finish it off with the impotent "YOU do not approve of". How about the truth for a change and acknowledge that it is God that doesn't approve of illicit sex and illegal drug use and the turned back is the one who is accountable for THEIR action.

addiction is an overwhelming force. if hygiene can be supplied while the hand goes out to help break the cycle, it would seem cruel to me to do anything else.

"to me" would be the key phrasing there, not according to God's instruction, not according to sane reasoning, but "to me". Note that along with dispelling this ignorance that providing paraphernalia for immoral use is not "breaking the cycle", it would be "sharing in it and continuing it".

you are welcome to disagree.

I have.

i also do not see where the verse selected says not to use every means possible to save these peoples bodies while the Holy Spirit goes on to work on their souls.

"... every means necessary..."
I have no problem showing this for what it is: giving a clean needle isn't going to "save the body" of the one that OD's, shares that "once clean needle", decides to skip using that condom "just this time", or continues to generally destroy their life. And the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with giving out condoms for immoral sex or needles for illegal drug use - that would be another spirit.

for either of us to ask where our interpretation is directly quoted in the verse is an intellectually bankrupt question. our positions must be extrapolated from what we have discovered about Jesus. i am assuming you are more intelligent than that desperately assinine question reflects. feel free to continue this vacant line of thought to prove me wrong. i have a feeling you will.
this does address the op.

Thanks for answering with "no answer" and displaying more of that hypocrisy. It truly shows more in act than I could put into words.

How about now we see another quoting of the fruit of the spirit, but this time I will do it and this time, let's not forget to remember that it isn't just empty words that sound good and realize that goodness, faithfulness and self-control actually mean something. In fact, how about less proof text and actually look at the bigger picture there as well:

Galatians 5:16-26
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.


19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
~~~

Hmm... it would seem that Christian teaching has nothing to do with justified contribution to illicit behavior. In fact where I see it is IN CONFLICT, I have also seen some people "talking" about the fruit of the Spirit and trying to attach part of the sinful nature as going hand-in-hand with the nature of the Spirit because "they" called endorsing the sinful nature "love". That is then followed up by accusing those that didn't do like "them" (and ONLY according to them) were guilty of being unloving and "turning their back". What makes the whole thing obscene is the fact that one position actually aligns with the whole of Christian teaching and the other is an arrogant creation with a label placed on it by themselves i.e. SELF-righteous.

John 15:19
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

1 John 2:15-17 15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
~~~

But not to worry, that only means the secularists, the unbelievers, the Pagans, the godhaters, the self-proclaimed "educated" will not only support, but love helping pass out the immoral paraphernalia. Never mind that pesky light exposing it for what it is.

 

[belladonic-haze]

But not to worry, that only means the secularists, the unbelievers, the Pagans, the godhaters, the self-proclaimed "educated" will not only support, but love helping pass out the immoral paraphernalia. Never mind that pesky light exposing it for what it is.

What do you mean by that........what do you consider immoral paraphernalia?

 

[praying]

But not to worry, that only means the secularists, the unbelievers, the Pagans, the godhaters, the self-proclaimed "educated" will not only support, but love helping pass out the immoral paraphernalia. Never mind that pesky light exposing it for what it is.

Why does one have to be a godhaters because their approach is different than yours? Perhaps the best solutions are multiple approaches since it is clear there are multiple issues. That has the ability for reaching the most people, we cannot ignore that some will reject your (the general you) approach. Isn't that the goal, to help/save the most we can?

 

[RenHoek]

sexeducation way below 18 and not let the parents decide

This is FLAT WRONG in my opinion. How can you presume you can raise my child better than me? I understand where you are coming from, but I believe your zeal has gone a bit far on this. You cannot save everyone, nor can you say that your way is the best for everyone. Should I take your children and preach my ideology to them, whether you like it or not? I can agree with the rest, but not letting the parent decide how to raise their children makes my blood boil .

Educate prostitutes and give them free health check-ups.......

I would say leagalize it and test to keep it clean. You can not stop it anyway. They can pay for it themselves out of their above the table profits. I feel no need to pay for it for them. They need to deal with their own issues in their profession.

I was talking about consenting adults, not coerced sex/rape. And you might regret doing it, but you do not break down in tears if you consented, you just move on to the next.......whatever it is that you choose.

I have seen women, emotional creatures that they are, think that they are entering into something more than a 1 night stand, and be hurt when the other person does not feel the same way the next day, and yes, cry. To say that this does not happen is wrong. Sex is still an emotional issue for some people, not just a carnal act of pleasure.

And yes, people do sometimes laugh about it later...

true, and sometimes they cry. People are very different in how things effect them. This is part of the beauty of diversity, right?

If they are 18 you are WAY too late! And I elborated why in the above post....

Perhaps in your opinion, but you cannot make that decision for the parent. You inform your kids how to combat AIDS, and I will tell mine. That is part of the responsibility of having kids. Why don’t we just send our kids to a boot camp where they can be indoctrinated properly? Who gets to run the boot camp?

 

[JoeSixpack]

What do you mean by that........what do you consider immoral paraphernalia?

Clean needles and condoms I think

 

[belladonic-haze]

This is FLAT WRONG in my opinion. How can you presume you can raise my child better than me? I understand where you are coming from, but I believe your zeal has gone a bit far on this. You cannot save everyone, nor can you say that your way is the best for everyone. Should I take your children and preach my ideology to them, whether you like it or not? I can agree with the rest, but not letting the parent decide how to raise their children makes my blood boil .





I would say leagalize it and test to keep it clean. You can not stop it anyway. They can pay for it themselves out of their above the table profits. I feel no need to pay for it for them. They need to deal with their own issues in their profession.


I have seen women, emotional creatures that they are, think that they are entering into something more than a 1 night stand, and be hurt when the other person does not feel the same way the next day, and yes, cry. To say that this does not happen is wrong. Sex is still an emotional issue for some people, not just a carnal act of pleasure.


true, and sometimes they cry. People are very different in how things effect them. This is part of the beauty of diversity, right?
Perhaps in your opinion, but you cannot make that decision for the parent. You inform your kids how to combat AIDS, and I will tell mine. That is part of the responsibility of having kids. Why don’t we just send our kids to a boot camp where they can be indoctrinated properly? Who gets to run the boot camp?

The younger the sex education the better. Not only to prevent all kinds of health problems, but what about those creeps that cannot keep there fingers of very young children. If they know what is right and wrong such things can be discovered sooner and avoid a lot of emotional scarring...but that aside.

Parents have difficulty to talk openly about sex. I have bumped into that problem so many times, and often kids/teens are more open and honest to talk about it with a "stranger"....

I had the most difficult questions in class because they were afraid to talk with their parents about it. Believe me, it was not something I did as easy as taking a walk in the park. But I was glad they trusted me enough to tell me about their issues and I never talked to one parent about their secrets. Example; homosexuality is hard to grasp for some parents especially Christian parents...or sex before marriage.....I always adviced to sit down with the parents and talk to them, but at least they were so wise to come to me. You would not believe how stupid some parents react to certain issues.....It is not because they do it wrong...it is because they do not see their child as a sexual active person....

In my country all kids get sex education and we do not need parentle approval....guess what we have the lowest rate of teen abortions in Europe (immigrants that came later to our country not counted...they are less sexual or not sexual educated and they have more teen pregnancies....)

It is not that I do not trust the parents, but I was trained to give good objective sex education...and parents are subjective because they are emotionally involved with the child...and that is okay, but it makes it a LOT harder to talk with such a person, especially when they are in the dark about certain sexual aspects or see many things as a sin......

And what is that.....women emotional creatures? Are men made of stone? Women are emotionally very strong, consider what nonsense they have to take from some men....

 

[belladonic-haze]

Clean needles and condoms I think

Yes, I thought that as well.....IMHO being against condoms and clean needles is condeming people to get very sick and die.....I think it is a violation of human rights to forbid condoms or to not make condoms more available same opinion about clean needles here.....

CC I do not say you are a babarian or something like that...I do not meant it personally. Last thing I want is insult someone personally....

 

[RenHoek]

The younger the sex education the better. Not only to prevent all kinds of health problems, but what about those creeps that cannot keep there fingers of very young children. If they know what is right and wrong such things can be discovered sooner and avoid a lot of emotional scarring...but that aside.

Agreed.

Parents have difficulty to talk openly about sex. I have bumped into that problem so many times, and often kids/teens are more open and honest to talk about it with a "stranger"....

Agreed.

I had the most difficult questions in class because they were afraid to talk with their parents about it. Believe me, it was not something I did as easy as taking a walk in the park. But I was glad they trusted me enough to tell me about their issues and I never talked to one parent about their secrets. Example; homosexuality is hard to grasp for some parents especially Christian parents...or sex before marriage.....I always adviced to sit down with the parents and talk to them, but at least they were so wise to come to me. You would not believe how stupid some parents react to certain issues.....It is not because they do it wrong...it is because they do not see their child as a sexual active person....

I am fine with it when a kid approaches you, I am fine with you keeping their secrets ( I would contend that you should encourage them to try to talk to their parents at some point though), what I have a problem with is some system usurping control of the situation without parental knowledge. Not sure what county you are from, but in the US, there are some issues with abortions being done to girls under 18 without parental knowledge/consent. The hypocrisy of this situation is that no other medical procedure would be done with this attitude. This is part of where I am coming from on the sex-ed issue.

In my country all kids get sex education and we do not need parentle approval....guess what we have the lowest rate of teen abortions in Europe (immigrants that came later to our country not counted...they are less sexual or not sexual educated and they have more teen pregnancies....)

Nuts and bolts (no pun intended) sex-ed is fine in school. I do think parents should know the curriculum ahead of time, but if it is standard across the board this works for me too.

It is not that I do not trust the parents, but I was trained to give good objective sex education...and parents are subjective because they are emotionally involved with the child...and that is okay, but it makes it a LOT harder to talk with such a person, especially when they are in the dark about certain sexual aspects or see many things as a sin......

Good parents can be hard to find, but they can’t be absolved of responsibility on the matter either. It is up to the parents to support why they feel it is sin and let the child make up their own mind at some point, even if they disagree.

And what is that.....women emotional creatures? Are men made of stone? Women are emotionally very strong, consider what nonsense they have to take from some men....

"Sugar and spice and everything nice,
That´s what little girls are made of.

Snakes and snails and puppy-dog tails,
That´s what little boys are made of."



I think this is in Ecclesiastes…

No offense meant, and it appears none taken, but I play the percentages on this one. Should have said they tend to be more emotional.

 

[LittleNipper]

This really ****es me off. AIDS is NOT strictly an STD. As someone else pointed out, its possible to spread AIDS through drug use (Needles) and it frequently happens that way. Its also possible to spread it by touching and or ingesting infected blood.

Vampires seem to have cause for alarm. It might KILL them-----Oh wait, vampires are already suppose to be dead..... Never mind...

 

[reverend B]

How about the truth for a change and acknowledge that it is God that doesn't approve of illicit sex and illegal drug use and the turned back is the one who is accountable for THEIR action.
there is no question that God does not approve of the sin. there is no disagreement there. it is how we get rid of that sin that we differ on, and what we do with the "shell" while we are helping to support the soul.
"to me" would be the key phrasing there, not according to God's instruction, not according to sane reasoning, but "to me".
"to me" relates to the way God has been revealed to me personally through scripture. i used the term intentionally to differentiate myself from people who would have their interpretation suffice for all humanity everywhere. that would be the height of arrogance. Note that along with dispelling this ignorance that providing paraphernalia for immoral use is not "breaking the cycle", it would be "sharing in it and continuing it".
you need to read more carefully. the provision of works for hygiene is a seperate step from the attempt to break the cycle. but a dead addict rarely recovers from their addiction. the clean paraphanelia is not the rehab. that is clear in the post.
I have no problem showing this for what it is: giving a clean needle isn't going to "save the body" of the one that OD's, shares that "once clean needle", decides to skip using that condom "just this time", or continues to generally destroy their life.
none of these will be helped by not supplying the works and the condom either, and as you said in an earlier post, it might save some. if ten people were saved, was it worth the effort?
And the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with giving out condoms for immoral sex or needles for illegal drug use - that would be another spirit.
all these things are doing is buying time to reach into the heart. if the intent was to give these things out to encourage the activity, i would agree with you. it is quite obviously the opposite. these can not be seperated just to attempt to win an argument on an internet forum. they are integrally related.
How about now we see another quoting of the fruit of the spirit, but this time I will do it and this time, let's not forget to remember that it isn't just empty words that sound good and realize that goodness, faithfulness and self-control actually mean something. In fact, how about less proof text and actually look at the bigger picture there as well:

Galatians 5:16-26
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.


19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
~~~

Hmm... it would seem that Christian teaching has nothing to do with justified contribution to illicit behavior. In fact where I see it is IN CONFLICT, I have also seen some people "talking" about the fruit of the Spirit and trying to attach part of the sinful nature as going hand-in-hand with the nature of the Spirit because "they" called endorsing the sinful nature "love". That is then followed up by accusing those that didn't do like "them" (and ONLY according to them) were guilty of being unloving and "turning their back". What makes the whole thing obscene is the fact that one position actually aligns with the whole of Christian teaching and the other is an arrogant creation with a label placed on it by themselves i.e. SELF-righteous.
somewhere in that list is kindness. does this not apply to you? that is part of the whole of Christian teaching, isn't it? the fruits are a directive of how we should be if the Spirit is in-dwelling. it does not mean that we must expect everyone else to be this way. of course these people are sinning. we don't disagree on that. but how do we save them? how do we show compassion, kindness, gentleness, love? this is where we disagree. i understand the "tough love" concept you are advocating, and accept that a case can be made for it. i have come to a different conclusion.John 15:19
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

1 John 2:15-17 15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
~~~

But not to worry, that only means the secularists, the unbelievers, the Pagans, the godhaters, the self-proclaimed "educated" will not only support, but love helping pass out the immoral paraphernalia. Never mind that pesky light exposing it for what it is.

and i see what you are doing as the "...boasting of what he has and does". your conviction that you are right to the exclusion of all others that are obviously operating from an intent to save the lost to me is prideful and in the way it is expressed lacks either kindness or gentleness. my posts have sadly carried the same weakness. i have prayed on it and have decided that one of us being unfriendly is too much, but i only have control of half the situation. i hope your last paragraph is not an implication that i am not a Christian. that is strongly against the rules here and can get you removed from the forums altogether. it seems we all step out of the light now and again. i have in this thread. i extend my hand and an apology to you and to everyone on this thread that has watched my catty behavior. my positions i stand by, of course, but not my attitude.

 

[LittleNipper]

The younger the sex education the better. Not only to prevent all kinds of health problems, but what about those creeps that cannot keep there fingers of very young children. If they know what is right and wrong such things can be discovered sooner and avoid a lot of emotional scarring...but that aside.

Parents have difficulty to talk openly about sex. I have bumped into that problem so many times, and often kids/teens are more open and honest to talk about it with a "stranger"....

I had the most difficult questions in class because they were afraid to talk with their parents about it. Believe me, it was not something I did as easy as taking a walk in the park. But I was glad they trusted me enough to tell me about their issues and I never talked to one parent about their secrets. Example; homosexuality is hard to grasp for some parents especially Christian parents...or sex before marriage.....I always adviced to sit down with the parents and talk to them, but at least they were so wise to come to me. You would not believe how stupid some parents react to certain issues.....It is not because they do it wrong...it is because they do not see their child as a sexual active person....

In my country all kids get sex education and we do not need parentle approval....guess what we have the lowest rate of teen abortions in Europe (immigrants that came later to our country not counted...they are less sexual or not sexual educated and they have more teen pregnancies....)

It is not that I do not trust the parents, but I was trained to give good objective sex education...and parents are subjective because they are emotionally involved with the child...and that is okay, but it makes it a LOT harder to talk with such a person, especially when they are in the dark about certain sexual aspects or see many things as a sin......

And what is that.....women emotional creatures? Are men made of stone? Women are emotionally very strong, consider what nonsense they have to take from some men....

Well see when Bible reading was once even a small part of public education, kids learned early what was right, what was wrong and the costs. Today, the entire concept of sin has become undefinable and vague.

 

[belladonic-haze]

Well see when Bible reading was once even a small part of public education, kids learned early what was right, what was wrong and the costs. Today, the entire concept of sin has become undefinable and vague.

That is the problem....we want to call many things that are normal sin...that confuses young people....AND not all people are Christian and believe in the biblical sins.....and there are Christians that do not believe in many biblical sins
You can not force children to read the bible if they are not Christian....or even if they are.

What we can do is stop acting like sex is a dirty thing. Teens explore, discover and learn...better to learn it the right way then end up in a coffin because sex education is censured......(or pregnant or another STD or whatever can go wrong...not to mention the suicide because kids are homosexual and treated like dirt and thrown out of the house by their parents).....

I think parents need to be educated as well....Calling sex before marriage sin and not talk about it or just preach to be abstain is NOT what keeps teens from not having sex......and the risk that they have unsafe sex, because they use the pill instead of condoms is not worth keeping silent or acting on old...very old ideas about sexuality and sin...

But Sex is NOT the only to get infected......

Let's think about that and talk about that as well here...or we forget a large group of HIV+ and AIDS patients!!!