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AI Concerns

MehGuy

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I believe tranhumanism will move along side advanced AI. The two feeding off each other in order to advance. So even if machines do become violent human beings will have the capabilities to rival them.
 
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Eryk

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I believe tranhumanism will move along side advanced AI. The two feeding off each other in order to advance. So even if machines do become violent human beings will have the capabilities to rival them.
But we will be different. Consciousness, will, and self-awareness are emergent, not functional, properties of the brain - the way the economy emerges from billions of transactions. If anything analogous to self-awareness emerges from a different architecture, it will be incomprehensible to us.
 
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MehGuy

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But we will be different. Consciousness, will, and self-awareness are emergent, not functional, properties of the brain - the way the economy emerges from billions of transactions. If anything analogous to self-awareness emerges from a different architecture, it will be incomprehensible to us.
Maybe. Perhaps we can give machines emergent properties too.

I just don't see intelligent machines drifting too far away from the inspiration of us.
 
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Jack of Spades

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ised-is-coming-finally/?tid=pm_business_pop_b

From the article:

"There have been more advances in AI over the past three years than there were in the previous three decades."

"The AI of the past used brute-force computing to analyze data and present them in a way that seemed human......Today’s AI uses machine learning in which you give it examples of previous games and let it learn from those examples. The computer is taught what to learn and how to learn and makes its own decisions.What’s more, the new AIs are modeling the human mind itself using techniques similar to our learning processes. Before, it could take millions of lines of computer code to perform tasks such as handwriting recognition. Now it can be done in hundreds of lines. What is required is a large number of examples so that the computer can teach itself."

".....the same technologies that it used to defeat a human player at the game Go. During that extremely complex game, observers were themselves confused as to why their computer had made the moves it had."

"In the fields in which it is trained, AI is now exceeding the capabilities of humans."

____________________________________________________________

Sounds to me like there are some breakthroughs being underway in AI development. It's a long article, so impossible to quote all interesting things without making a monster post.
 
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nightflight

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Even closer to the show’s premise: Just a few weeks ago, more than 1,000 scientists signed an open letter arguing for the banning of AI-driven weaponry. “Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology has reached a point where the deployment of such systems is—practically if not legally—feasible within years, not decades, and the stakes are high,” reads the letter signed by Elon Musk, Stephen Hawking, and Steve Wozniak. From Newsweek:
The authors recognize a common argument made in favor of the technology—that replacing soldiers with machinery ultimately reduces the owner’s number of battlefield casualties. But in reducing casualty rates, they argue, autonomous weapons would make armed conflict less costly and therefore more frequent.

“The key question for humanity today is whether to start a global AI arms race or to prevent it from starting,” the letter reads. “It will only be a matter of time until they appear on the black market and in the hands of terrorists, dictators wishing to better control their populace, warlords wishing to perpetrate ethnic cleansing, etc.”

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/10/aft...why_westworld_could_be_their_next_great_show/
 
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Chany

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Why are those things bad? Less work is a good thing.

Generally, in economics, it is assumed that an increase in production and GDP will lead to an increase in jobs and employment. More money inside the business leads to more people getting hired by the business. Once AI and automation reaches the point where it becomes cheaper to use some type of computer or machine than people, people become economically inefficient. In other words, economic growth no longer will substantially correlate with job growth.

For example, take cashiers and the like. If you own a grocery store, it is ultimately cheaper to have 18 self-checkouts with better monitoring equipment and being tended by three cashiers then having 18 cashiers, especially in the long run. The only major barriers are a possible increase in theft (hence better monitoring systems and possibly an extra cashier/more demanding workforce environment), customers desire for human interaction (something that younger generations are less desiring of), and lack of computer-sense among customers (again, something that will gradually go away). There is also evidence there for fast food types of restaurants to switch to automatic ordering because people tend to buy more without a person talking to them. Again, the only problem is a potential lack of computer know-how, but this gradually will go away.

In other words, less work is good- so long as you can get around the same amount of money, you remain employed, and the economic does not tank.
 
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Noxot

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Generally, in economics, it is assumed that an increase in production and GDP will lead to an increase in jobs and employment. More money inside the business leads to more people getting hired by the business. Once AI and automation reaches the point where it becomes cheaper to use some type of computer or machine than people, people become economically inefficient. In other words, economic growth no longer will substantially correlate with job growth.

For example, take cashiers and the like. If you own a grocery store, it is ultimately cheaper to have 18 self-checkouts with better monitoring equipment and being tended by three cashiers then having 18 cashiers, especially in the long run. The only major barriers are a possible increase in theft (hence better monitoring systems and possibly an extra cashier/more demanding workforce environment), customers desire for human interaction (something that younger generations are less desiring of), and lack of computer-sense among customers (again, something that will gradually go away). There is also evidence there for fast food types of restaurants to switch to automatic ordering because people tend to buy more without a person talking to them. Again, the only problem is a potential lack of computer know-how, but this gradually will go away.

In other words, less work is good- so long as you can get around the same amount of money, you remain employed, and the economic does not tank.

the economy will have to adapt to the masters of it- human beings. people who are so foolish to think that the economy is a God over humans are the ones who think they need to work like slaves in order to have a meaningful existence in the world (there are certainly people who have such beliefs, be they subconscious or not). humans will have to find meaning besides work eventually, if technology ends up supplying people with the basics they have need of. of course knowing how insane humans are they would rather kill one another rather than solve world hunger, which they could already have done.

all the money of the USA is pretend anyways. people just agree that it has value. one day people will figure that out.
 
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ewq1938

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Even closer to the show’s premise: Just a few weeks ago, more than 1,000 scientists signed an open letter arguing for the banning of AI-driven weaponry. “Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology has reached a point where the deployment of such systems is—practically if not legally—feasible within years, not decades, and the stakes are high,” reads the letter signed by Elon Musk, Stephen Hawking, and Steve Wozniak.

The obvious problem is that the enemy will be using AI driven weapons that will out perform weapons platforms that don't use AI so it would be a small matter of time before the US used AI to compete. It's destiny. It will take one single hacker to be able to turn our own weapons against us and then we have a clone wars situation (if anyone remembers what happened there).
 
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durangodawood

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Why doesn't anyone think that AIs would be programmed with something akin to Asimov's Laws of Robotics? Or fail safe switches? :)
As with all laws, a minority (at the least) will disobey.

I'm talking about the designers, and not necessarily the AI itself. Some will inevitably neglect to "install" the laws of robotics. And then we're off and running!
 
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Taom Ben Robert

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Are you suggesting computers will only be attracted to the same sex of computer? As a gay computer I am offended because I choose this lifestyle. I was not programmed this way!
Homo = human genus / genus containing the many species of human
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Does how many other people have concerns over super intelligent AI?

I'm very pro-technology, but I'm increasingly concerned that AI could destroy or enslave us in my lifetime.

Not out of malice... just because it think's it's practical.

Obviously a super intelligent AI could out predict us, so there's no way we could stop it.

Can we be sure that no AI is made which we can't control? Or must we trust that the first one's will protect us?

"Suppose we have an AI whose only goal is to make as many paper clips as possible. The AI will realize quickly that it would be much better if there were no humans because humans might decide to switch it off. Because if humans do so, there would be fewer paper clips. Also, human bodies contain a lot of atoms that could be made into paper clips. The future that the AI would be trying to gear towards would be one in which there were a lot of paper clips but no humans."

— Nick Bostrom, "Ethical Issues in Advanced Artificial Intelligence", 2003

...while your concern is valid and one that I share, I'd ask: should we be surprised since the Book of Revelation already hinted that we would reach this point of social complexity and possible political tyranny with our technology? And so, here we are ....

2PhiloVoid
 
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Chany

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the economy will have to adapt to the masters of it- human beings. people who are so foolish to think that the economy is a God over humans are the ones who think they need to work like slaves in order to have a meaningful existence in the world (there are certainly people who have such beliefs, be they subconscious or not). humans will have to find meaning besides work eventually, if technology ends up supplying people with the basics they have need of. of course knowing how insane humans are they would rather kill one another rather than solve world hunger, which they could already have done.

all the money of the USA is pretend anyways. people just agree that it has value. one day people will figure that out.

A few things to note:

1) Saying all the money in the US is pretend is in one sense true, but its function as a unit of measure of worth is as important as the unit of "inches" is to building a house. Money allows us to avoid systems with heavy bartering and its inherent problems. Currency allows us to see how much something is valued and compare this value to other goods. It prevents people from just taking everything off the shelf whenever they so choose, yet prevents some hack government bureaucrats from arbitrarily putting a price on something and calling that its worth.

2) Whether people like it or not, the basic laws of economics- how people generally behave and make choices given scarce (limited) resources- hold in all systems. The laws of supply and demand for a specific good would still hold; people will want certain things who scarcity is determined by the willingness of a supplier, which is determined by the scarcity of the factors of production. This allows us to avoid scarcity, surplus. It also allows people, as a society, to choose what they value.

3) While I agree the work-ethic thing has created problems for a lot of people in terms of value, a lot of people do find value in their work and would like to continue finding value there. Some people want to become teachers for no other reason than a desire to teach. Some people like to cook for a living because they like to cook for fun. This goes with a lot of people. People actually find meaning in performing their jobs. People also want something more to life than basic supplies for survival. We do work to currently supply these needs, sure, but we also work for our wants and desires, something that we need a market to handle. We need some way of transferring money from suppliers to demanders and back again without making either side angry. This is currently done primarily through labor costs. However, with a loss of jobs to machines, the transfer of money from the owners of the factors of production/employed to everyone else seems problematic. I do not know of a system of living that could do this without major problems.
 
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Noxot

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people can't keep going at it as they now are. they have to become better or they will destroy themselves. change is coming and no one can stop it, so they need to make it good rather than evil.

I think the last ditch effort of trying to save the human race from destroying themselves will have to be aliens. if we can't be the race of intelligence beings that survives through our awkward growing pains then I hope there is some form of intelligence that can help us out. maybe it will be an advanced AI from an alien race that just did not know how to reach us in any other way other than with some kind of AI. that would be neat. it could even be a human created AI that comes up with ideas on how to better the human race. i'm all for any good ideas.

AI can help humans too. there is always risk of good or evil happening. and if we can't survive our own insanity that we pretend we don't have then maybe we could at least make a self-replicating AI that can survive. maybe somewhere in the universe that already happened, or will.
 
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Chany

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people can't keep going at it as they now are. they have to become better or they will destroy themselves. change is coming and no one can stop it, so they need to make it good rather than evil.

It's not so much the automation itself so much as what it causes: severe job loss. The problem is quite clear: we need to devise a way of transferring wealth from the employed to the unemployed that allows both sides to be satisfied. Then, we'll need to deal with scarcity of resources and population control.

I think the last ditch effort of trying to save the human race from destroying themselves will have to be aliens. if we can't be the race of intelligence beings that survives through our awkward growing pains then I hope there is some form of intelligence that can help us out. maybe it will be an advanced AI from an alien race that just did not know how to reach us in any other way other than with some kind of AI. that would be neat. it could even be a human created AI that comes up with ideas on how to better the human race. i'm all for any good ideas.

I hope that any aliens reading this will not take offense and is merely representing an opinion I do not necessarily hold:

We can't say for certain, but I would not want to meet any alien culture without being on equal technological terms. Being an inferior power is not a good thing. I would not assume aliens would be benevolent; the opposite, in fact.

AI can help humans too. there is always risk of good or evil happening. and if we can't survive our own insanity that we pretend we don't have then maybe we could at least make a self-replicating AI that can survive. maybe somewhere in the universe that already happened, or will.

I really don't care about AI. Anthropomorphism with no justification.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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The problem is quite clear: we need to devise a way of transferring wealth from the employed to the unemployed that allows both sides to be satisfied. Then, we'll need to deal with scarcity of resources .....
The solution is available already. Are you willing , is (probably)the only question that matters.



We can't say for certain, but I would not want to meet any alien culture without being on equal technological terms. Being an inferior power is not a good thing. I would not assume aliens would be benevolent; the opposite, in fact.
Forget aliens for a minute.
Think Washington d.c.
No way to be on any kind of "equal technological terms", and it doesn't matter at all.
The same criteria as above: "Are you willing", is all that matters. (probably).
The solution has already been provided.
 
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Chany

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The solution is available already. Are you willing , is (probably)the only question that matters.




Forget aliens for a minute.
Think Washington d.c.
No way to be on any kind of "equal technological terms", and it doesn't matter at all.
The same criteria as above: "Are you willing", is all that matters. (probably).
The solution has already been provided.

Name it. I don't like cryptic statements in discussing serious business.
 
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