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Agree, or disagree?

elizabeth098

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Christian persecution.
If it were to happen to you, do you think it is something that we should get used to? Or should it not be this way, and Thayer stand up for ourselves? For a long time, and I'm still not used to being punished in any way for my faith in God- it's much lighter than what Christians in other countries are experiencing. Am I to come to terms with it?
 

theophilus40

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Jesus warned that his followers will suffer persecution and that as we near the end of the age this persecution will get worse. This site tells about some of the persecution that is taking place and perhaps the information here will help you to understand how to prepare for it:

Christian Persecution, Church Persecution | Open Doors USA
 
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Harry3142

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elizabeth098-

Orthodox Judaism and Islam do not permit the persecution of Christians. However, there are those whose real motives are the acquiring of power and wealth for themselves and/or the promoting of an agenda which actually contradicts the teachings of their religion. To them Christianity is a threat not because it teaches something other than Judaism or Islam, but instead because it undermines those people's own objectives.

As Christians our procedure when confronted by such people is not to react to what they are doing as if they were true spokesmen for their respective religions. In fact, this is actually what some of them want us to do, so that they can use our reaction as 'evidence' that Christianity is against their religion, and by so doing draw others away from its orthodox teachings and into their camp. Instead, our actions are to be dictated by the motivations which Scripture itself teaches that we are to have as the impetus for our actions:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)


The moitvations listed as 'the acts of the sinful nature' culminate in the commission of all sinful acts. This is recognized as true not only for Christians, but also for Jews and Muslims. If our actions have any of these motivations as their origin, then the actions must be seen as sinful, due to the motivations which lead to those actions themselves being sinful.

For our actions to be seen as conforming to God's will, the motivations must also conform to his will. And that occurs when the motivations are those listed as 'the fruit of the Spirit'. It is only when the impetus for our actions are the 9 'fruit' listed in this passage that the actions are acceptable to God as being truly righteous. Their importance to our spiritual growth as Christians is emphasized by the words which immediately follow their listing: "Against such things there is no law."

And this is also accepted as the necessary foundation for their followers' actions by all three major religions. The Tanakh of Judaism and the Quran of Islam are in agreement with the importance of the motivations which we call 'the fruit of the Spirit' being at the core of their actions. So when you encounter someone who preaches hatred of Christians and Christianity, see him not as a spokesman for another religion, because he is actually violating their Scriptures himself. Instead, see him for what he really is, namely, a person who is attempting to acquire wealth and power for either himself or some special-interest organization he's actually promoting, while using religion as nothing more than a smokescreen to both hide his real agenda and give it the veneer of pietism. You will find that this lessens the sting of his attacks considerably.

God bless-
 
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theophilus40

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Harry3142

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You can find a list of the 50 countries where Christians face the most sever persecution here:

Christian Persecution Rankings, Where Christian Persecution Exists | World Watch List

Most of these are countries where Islam is the predominant religion. If Islam doesn't permit the persecution of Christians then who is doing all the persecuting in these countries?


The people ordering these persecutions are exploiters, and the people committing them are those who have accepted the orders of these exploiters as conforming to Islam rather than reading the Quran for themselves. Their leaders claim to not only be muslims, but also be the only true muslims, with all others only being an aberration of the religion. But the reality is that their agenda has nothing whatsoever to do with orthodox Islam, but instead is focused on their own attaining of power over others.

We have such people who claim to be the only true Christians, with all others only being aberrations. But their definition of Christianity is to hate whatever group their leaders tell them to hate, and see any and all violent acts committed against those groups as being ordained by God himself. Should these people attain the same power over the same number of people that we see in some of the nations which claim to promote Islam, I have no doubt whatsoever that the endresult will be just as violent as we are seeing in those countries.

The 'bottom line' is that there are people who will take any religion that is available, and then attempt to pervert it so as to make it appear that the religion is promoting their own agenda, rather than having their agenda promote the religion. A favorite means of their achieving this goal is what I call the hitlerian tactic, due to Adolph Hitler's ability to use it. In His book Mein Kampf He described the technique of 'shutting down' his listeners' intellect through his deliberately targeting their emotions. When we see his gestures, as well as the tone with which he spoke, in documentaries, we are seeing this tactic being used. Those gestures weren't performed out of his own emotional state, but instead were performed in order to 'push' his listeners into the emotional state that he wanted them to be in.

The same tactic is being used today, and for the same purposes. The leaders who are using the hitlerian tactic couldn't care less about the true teaching of their religion, be it Judaism, Christianity or Islam. To them religion is only a means to an end, and the 'end' is their attaining exactly what they themselves want to attain. And just as Adolph Hitler knew that the best way of attaining his objectives was to manipulate the emotions of his listeners, these so-called religious leaders of today likewise know that the best way of achieving their objectives is to manipulate the emotions of their listeners. In this way they can 'push' their listeners into accepting, and even committing, actions which their own Holy Writ tells them is forbidden.
 
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Arcwood

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Christian persecution.
If it were to happen to you, do you think it is something that we should get used to? Or should it not be this way, and Thayer stand up for ourselves? For a long time, and I'm still not used to being punished in any way for my faith in God- it's much lighter than what Christians in other countries are experiencing. Am I to come to terms with it?

this was me as I read through that.
"NO!."
oh wait, I should find a piece of paper to gather my minds notes on strate away!
"but Yes I agree."

my point is, you used two different statements. I just get to answer both I guess. Hur'ru!
anyways, so mush for mish.
 
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dhh712

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Christian persecution.
If it were to happen to you, do you think it is something that we should get used to? Or should it not be this way, and Thayer stand up for ourselves? For a long time, and I'm still not used to being punished in any way for my faith in God- it's much lighter than what Christians in other countries are experiencing. Am I to come to terms with it?


I have no ground from which to speak from, living in a country which God has ordained at the present time to have a phenomenally free environment in which the Christian can worship in practically any manner he so desires. It is a freedom for which every Christian who lives in this country should be grateful to God and acknowledge their unworthiness of receipt of such a gift.

However, I do feel that--as all history is cyclic--this environment will not endure. Eventually, it is almost promised that the Christian will again be persecuted--in this country and most likely many others. I feel it will happen to those Christians who have a God-centered faith as that sort of belief is anathema to the ego of mankind.

I feel humanity-centered Christians will be largely left alone because their beliefs center around how God will give much prosperity to those on earth and reward them with worldly riches; who of the world can be against that? As Humanism continues to feed the spiritual desolation of this planet, I feel that we can look to times of such persecution more and more, those of us who do not believe that God works for us and has created us to partake of worldly enjoyments.

On my own, I know I will not be able to take religious persecution and will fail at the first affliction. Only His Spirit can sustain me; it is only His gift of faith unto me that can be my shield and armour in dark times, if it is in His will for it to be that way.
 
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Emmy

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Dear elizabeth098. Jesus told us already that we would be persecuted one way or another. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself."
Then Jesus points out the great truth: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God wants our love, freely given and No conditions tagged on. God is Love, and God wants loving men and women.
A great start is: treat all you know and all you meet , as you would love to be treated: kindly and always with friendly words, and a helping when needed.
God will see our sincere efforts, and God will Bless us. Jesus told us: " ask and ye shall receive, then we thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour: all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends.
The world knows that we are God`s representatives on this Earth, and who will persecute us for being loving and kind? Was it St Francis who told us:
" use words only when necessary?" As long as we know in our hearts that we are following God`s or Jesus`s Commands, people will leave us alone.
I don`t know if you are being persecuted for being Christ`s follower, if Yes,
then follow our Lord`s two Commandments without using words.
If you can openly be a follower of Christ, then show your Love for God and your neighbour with words as well as deeds. I say this with love, Elizabeth.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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paul1149

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The Bible says a lot about persecution and suffering. In one place, Jesus tells us to flee when it comes. But in another place He tells them to hold fast, even to death. Our first inclination is to flee or avoid, and that's not inherently wrong, but sometimes it's not possible, or it is superseded by a greater need to stay and be faithful despite the cost. These are things we must determine in situ, as the spirit leads.

I disagree with the statement that Islam does not countenance persecution. Wanton use of the sword is baked right into both its holy book and the life of its prime exemplar. The irenic koranic verses were from the early years, before Muhammad began his bloody conquests, and are abrogated by the later militant verses. This explains the vast persecution in islamic countries, and why islam cannot be reformed.
 
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Arcwood

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Have you read the Qu'ran Paul?
I recently started reading it, and I found that the way Muslims are perceived through their faith is an extreme example of what their scriptures actually say.

from what I've read they are only allowed to kill, and are encouraged to kill, if the person is a blasphemer (misleading people in their understanding of God) and aggressive. Neither being aggressive nor being a blasphemer alone gives any Muslim right to kill you.

{srry I'll read the previous posts now.**}
 
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