Age in Relationships

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

To say that marital unfaithfulness is a reason to be divorced, is to say that the love is conditional. This controdicts love, which controdicts God. This is one of several reasons why I believe "marital unfaithfulness" is a poor translation and needs to be looked deepr into. See that my words are simply put aside and that my thoughts are against 5 others who agree with each, it would not be wise for me to proceed with an in depth look at scripture.

If one so wishes to be OPEN MINDED as to why i feel this way, then I will proceed with it tomorrow. Any other reason will cause me to do nothing. Not to mention that you all aready have your beliefs set in stone, I for one do not feel that I carry the weight to challenge that, but like I said, if one is willing to listen, please let him or her hear.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

To say that marital unfaithfulness is a reason to be divorced, is to say that the love is conditional.

I don't understand this. Jesus said that adultery is a reason (the only reason) to be divorced. Does that make love conditional?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

"till death, do you part"

A vow said by most couples to God.

To honor, love and respect. Also vows made to God.

 

[k]

To say that marital unfaithfulness is a reason to be divorced, is to say that the love is conditional. This controdicts love, which controdicts God.

It is my understanding that to love someone "unconditionally" means to love a person regardless of their faults. This is not some license for people to treat each other in abusive ways and then fall back on, "Hey you're supposed to love me unconditionally." A man hitting his wife is not a "fault" it is a crime. A fault would be leaving dirty dishes in the sink, or hogging the remote, or not picking dirty laundry up.

We must be careful to not take "unconditional love" out of context for use of justifying a position.

 

[k]

You have a very strange definition of "marital unfaithfulness". I would be interested in seeing Strong's on the actual word used...I've never heard anyone suggest it refers to anything other than adultery before.

It has been my experience that Strong's is not the only, or even best place to look, but some research is always helpful.

One of the reasons people were trained to think it was speaking "only" to adultery is because for years husbands have abused their wives, and would justify the woman not leaving him 'cause he would say "I've never cheated on you!" It saddens me that anyone would use God as their underwriter for abusing another human being.

 

[Chrono Traveler]

It is my understanding that to love someone "unconditionally" means to love a person regardless of their faults. This is not some license for people to treat each other in abusive ways and then fall back on, "Hey you're supposed to love me unconditionally." A man hitting his wife is not a "fault" it is a crime. A fault would be leaving dirty dishes in the sink, or hogging the remote, or not picking dirty laundry up.

We must be careful to not take "unconditional love" out of context for use of justifying a position.

Ya, I don't think it would violate unconditional love if you left an abusive relationship. If you are abused, is that love on his/her part?

Love is something that should be shared, not just given..

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I don't understand this. Jesus said that adultery is a reason (the only reason) to be divorced. Does that make love conditional?

Yes it does... "I will love you unless you are unfaithful"= conditional. This is why with I disagree with how some people translate/interperute this passage.

 

[morningstar2651]

How should it be translated?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

It is my understanding that to love someone "unconditionally" means to love a person regardless of their faults. This is not some license for people to treat each other in abusive ways and then fall back on, "Hey you're supposed to love me unconditionally." A man hitting his wife is not a "fault" it is a crime. A fault would be leaving dirty dishes in the sink, or hogging the remote, or not picking dirty laundry up.

We must be careful to not take "unconditional love" out of context for use of justifying a position.

....

Now you are rationalizing.


We are to love others as Jesus has loved us. We are to love our enemies just the same. Enemies being people that could hurt or abuse or even kill us.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Ya, I don't think it would violate unconditional love if you left an abusive relationship. If you are abused, is that love on his/her part?

Love is something that should be shared, not just given..

This in itself is also conditional.

"I will love you as long as you love me" The greek calls this philleo love, not agape.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

How should it be translated?

Back in the day (OT), men were allowed to give their wives a write of divorce if they found her to not be a virgin within the first 7 days. After that time period, he was bound to her. I believe it to still be the same today.

This is a VERY LIGHT aspect of my views with 0 depth at all. As I stated earlier, I will go into more detail tomorrow...

But for now, I am off to bed.

Peace n Godbless.

 

[k]

....

Now you are rationalizing.


We are to love others as Jesus has loved us. We are to love our enemies just the same. Enemies being people that could hurt or abuse or even kill us.

Justify the claim that I am rationalizing. "Loving" someone does not equate remaining in a position that would enable them to hurt us. We are to love our enemies, but this does not mean we let them beat us up or be abusive. We are to love them in forgiveness, and this does not mean we don't hold them accountable for their actions.

Prayerfully, you never enter into an abusive marriage, but if you did, then maybe it would help to understand why God does not want us to have such a hardlined position. I am not saying divorce should just happen 'cause someone isn't getting their way, or because it's not what they thought it would be.

I completely respect dedication to a committment, and I wish more people had it in them to do that, including me. However, we should not let dedication blind us from that which is detrimental to our well being. Being abused hurts us in many ways and can have long lasting effects.

 

[k]

Back in the day (OT), men were allowed to give their wives a write of divorce if they found her to not be a virgin within the first 7 days. After that time period, he was bound to her. I believe it to still be the same today.

This is a VERY LIGHT aspect of my views with 0 depth at all. As I stated earlier, I will go into more detail tomorrow...

But for now, I am off to bed.

Peace n Godbless.

Anthropology shows us there were some social reasons for that "boundness." It had to do with lineage, but more important property rights and economic reasons.

Looking forward to reading the rest of your position. Thanks

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Justify the claim that I am rationalizing. "Loving" someone does not equate remaining in a position that would enable them to hurt us. We are to love our enemies, but this does not mean we let them beat us up or be abusive. We are to love them in forgiveness, and this does not mean we don't hold them accountable for their actions.

Prayerfully, you never enter into an abusive marriage, but if you did, then maybe it would help to understand why God does not want us to have such a hardlined position. I am not saying divorce should just happen 'cause someone isn't getting their way, or because it's not what they thought it would be.

I completely respect dedication to a committment, and I wish more people had it in them to do that, including me. However, we should not let dedication blind us from that which is detrimental to our well being. Being abused hurts us in many ways and can have long lasting effects.

No, you don't let them beat you up. You make sure they know what they are doing first, then allow them too. Refer to Ghandi and his pacifism. Beyond that, tell them what they are doing wrong. Beyond that even more, DO NOT RUN AWAY.

I don't know of any marriages when both people were highly spiritually mature and sought the Lord like we are suppossed to, and have any trouble. Do they have disagreements? Yes. Do they handle them well? Supernatural well. Is there any hint of "marital unfaithfulness" (abuse, adultry, etc.) No. Seek first the kingdom of God and what you need shall be given unto you.

uhh... ok i really need to sleep now. Peace

 

[Chrono Traveler]

This in itself is also conditional.

"I will love you as long as you love me" The greek calls this philleo love, not agape.

It takes both peoples love to get into a relationship. to be happy. "conditions" for me are things more like,

is she a virgin?
have she make many mistakes in life?
more of the psyical relm, and not of the heart.
There are some things I like in a partner, but these things don't matter so much.

Im sorry, but falling out of love with someone because they abuse you and show you no love what so even is not just a condidion. There HAS to be conditions to love at some points. I just think youre picking the wrong ones. The only condition I need to go by is respect, if you respect eachother, and want to go out of your to do whats in their best interests. Then thats love, even if it means letting them go if they love someone else.

I hate to say it, but.. love...can... die And it takes a very strong relationship to stay together. Like my grandparents, they met when she was 17 and he was 19, and were together till death..

To keep a relationship alive, you have to work. You have to keep things new. You have to be thinking of eachothers needs all the time.
.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

No, you don't let them beat you up. You make sure they know what they are doing first, then allow them too. Refer to Ghandi and his pacifism. Beyond that, tell them what they are doing wrong. Beyond that even more, DO NOT RUN AWAY.

This is awful, terrible, rotten advice. Please, any women reading, do not listen to the above. The first time your husband hits you, run, do not walk, to your nearest police station and do not return.

 

[Chrono Traveler]

This is awful, terrible, rotten advice. Please, any women reading, do not listen to the above. The first time your husband hits you, run, do not walk, to your nearest police station and do not return.

I agree, take Sceptic's advice. You would only be hurting yourself if you didn't get out of an abusive relationship as fast as you could..

 

[flicka]

I think there is a real difference in the idea of 'loving our enemies' and being married to one. The first is just an idea, not a legally binding contract. I hope all the young idealists posting in this thread realize that before they find themselves in a loveless, unhappy marriage a few years down the road wondering why their life is such a mess even after following all the rules they imagined Jesus required of them.

 

[Archivist]

"till death, do you part"

A vow said by most couples to God.

The death shouldn't come at the hands of an abusive spouse.

I say again, no one has any obligation to remain in an abusive relationship.

 

[k]

The death shouldn't come at the hands of an abusive spouse.

I say again, no one has any obligation to remain in an abusive relationship.

That makes perfect sense. I always understood the "till death, do you part" as the natural order. Meaning, someone dying of natural causes or some disease.

It appears that many phrases throughout this discussion are taken out of context to some degree. Some to the point of not even being recognizable.