Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[ZacharyB]

Please note: this does not include Jesus’ warnings to everyone in the 4 Gospels!

No OSAS for Christians who are slaves of sin (who habitually practice sin)
Romans 6:16-23 • "… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves)
of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
For when you were slaves of sin … the end of those things is (eternal) death.
… For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …" --- 3 dire warnings in 8 verses!
Romans 8:13-14 • "For if you live according to the flesh you will die (eternal death);
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life).
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
Through the help of the Holy Spirit, we must put to death the sinful nature.
This, of course, is all part of walking on Jesus’ narrow path (Matthew 7:13-14).
IMO, you will make it to heaven, IF you sincerely repent of (forsake) your sins!

No OSAS for Christians who do not overcome all sins of every type
Revelation 21:7-8 • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Jesus is talking about anyone who is a habitual (unrepentant) sinner!
Revelation 3:5 • “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of (Eternal) Life …”
Revelation 3:21 • “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
Jesus did not overcome by believing He was/is the Son of God (re: 1 John 5:5).

No OSAS for Christians who do not sow and live according to the Spirit
Galatians 6:7-8 • “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows,
that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.”
Romans 8:5-6 • "For those who LIVE according to the flesh set their minds on the
things of the flesh, but those who LIVE according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally-minded is death, but to be spiritually-minded is life and peace.”
Decide for yourself: Are these passages contrasting eternal death with eternal life?

No OSAS for Christians who do not practice righteousness
1 John 3:7 • “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous”
The Christian who does not practice righteousness is not righteous in God’s eyes!

No OSAS for Christians who do not love and obey Jesus
John 14:15-23 • “If you love Me, keep (obey) My commandments …
He who has My commandments and keeps (obeys) them, it is he who loves Me …
If anyone loves Me, he will keep (obey) My word …”
Good question: Does anyone get to heaven who does not love Jesus?
Hebrews 5:9 • “He (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”
Romans 6:16 • "… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin
leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness …”
James 1:12-15 • Those who endure the temptations to sin “will receive the
crown of (eternal) life, which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.”

No OSAS for Christians who draw back, fall away, do not endure in the faith, etc.
Here are just a few of those famous “conditional passages” …
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 • “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel … by which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you – unless you believed in vain.”
2 Corinthians 13:5 • “Examine yourself to see IF you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.”
Hebrews 3:14 • “For we have become partakers of Christ IF we hold the beginning
of our confidence steadfast to the end.”
1 Timothy 5:16 • “Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.”
Does this remind you of “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12)?
Or Paul’s concern that after preaching to others he might be disqualified (1 Cor 9:27)?
Hebrews 10:36-39 • “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith; but IF anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.’ But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.”
In this last part, Paul displays his usual tactful method of softening his dire warnings
with encouragement and exhortation, and he is hopeful that none of them fall away!
Revelation 2:10 • “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.”
The fun part about this is: “the crown of life” is eternal life! … Research it for yourself,
and note James 1:12-15 … he warns to not be deceived: sin brings forth eternal death.

No OSAS for Christians who don’t do what is required of them
1 Timothy 6:9-19 • “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into may foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil … Let them (rich Christians) do good, that they may be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.”
If you are a Christian who desires to be rich, beware of the possible consequences!
IMO, the “good foundation for the time to come” refers to when Christians are judged.
Jude 20-21 • “But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.”
Our eternal life depends on Jesus’ mercy, which depends on us!
So, let us all agree: “Faith without works is dead (useless)” (James 2:20)

No OSAS for Christians who do not inherit (enter) the kingdom of God
First, these 2 passages prove that “the kingdom of God” is analogous to heaven …
Mark 9:47 • “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire”
Matthew 25:34-46 • “Come, you (the righteous) blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world … And these (the unrighteous) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
The unrighteous (e.g. habitual sinners) will NOT inherit the kingdom of God …
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 • “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
There are several “sin lists” which keep Christians out of the kingdom and heaven.

Note: I have not included in the above Jesus’ many warnings in the 4 Gospels.

June 18 editing for formatting clarity only.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you mean, in other words,
EVEN IF OSAS is true,
so what ? --- where is there anyone saved to start with, out of all those claiming OSAS is true ?

 

[ZacharyB]

Sorry, but I am having trouble understanding your question.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Once saved always saved might possibly be true, from God's viewpoint.
It is obviously totally impossible from man's viewpoint.

There's multitudes of people who believe once saved always saved is true,
but they refuse to be saved themselves. So what difference does it make for them ?

There's multitudes of people who don't even know and never heard of assurance of being saved at all, or
they didn't listen to the truth nor pay attention to the truth because their own support system dissuaded them,
and perhaps they won't be saved because of many other reasons, and they were never ever saved in their life time.

Then there's a remnant of people who don't care if once saved always saved is true or not,
and they are saved for eternity
as long as they endure to the end (as Jesus puts it).

 

[ZacharyB]

Once saved always saved might possibly be true, from God's viewpoint.
It is obviously totally impossible from man's viewpoint.
There's multitudes of people who believe once saved always saved is true,
but they refuse to be saved themselves. So what difference does it make for them ?
There's multitudes of people who don't even know and never heard of assurance
of being saved at all, or they didn't listen to the truth nor pay attention to the truth
because their own support system dissuaded them, and perhaps they won't be saved
because of many other reasons, and they were never ever saved in their life time.
Then there's a remnant of people who don't care if once saved always saved is true or not, and they are saved for eternity as long as they endure to the end
(as Jesus puts it).

Thank you for clarifying your thinking, and it is quite impressive!
OSAS is obviously NOT "totally imposible from man's viewpoint" ... because
there are multitudes of believers who have been deceived into believing it.

I have postulated before ...
-- With God's many dozens of dire warnings, is He bluffing, exaggerating, etc.?
But, surely He is not outright lying!
-- God's dire warnings are really only for His special elect, who WILL indeed
choose to heed them and WILL proceed forth through the process of sanctification
where they will practice righteousness and keep it, finally unto holiness.

But, no postulation here ...
The entire NT stands totally opposed to SIN.
The whole of the NT warns everyone ... sin leads to eternal death.
Thus and therefore, believers had better overcome their inclination to sin!
And this is entirely more than possible for the born-again believer … because of
his new nature (wherein he no longer has to sin), and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[ZacharyB]

2 days and counting ... and no response from the die-hard OSASers.
It appears that ignoring the dozens of anti-OSAS NT verses continues.

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Good stuff. God bless you.

 

[brotherjerry]

Not a matter of ignoring verses Zach...just ignoring you for repeating the same things that people have shown you time and time again does not mean what you claim it to mean or does not even have a reference to salvation.

Not that it will matter...chalk this up to another win on your board...you are one step closer to earning your salvation.

It is like listening to a politician...they just keep repeating the same thing over and over again and hope that eventually they either drown out any opposition or people will just give up and believe whatever they are saying. Me...I just keep praying for you brother.

 

[ZacharyB]

Not a matter of ignoring verses Zach...just ignoring you for repeating the same things that people have shown you time and time again does not mean what you claim it to mean or does not even have a reference to salvation.

No one has shown me any such thing!

Here's a simple challenge for you ...
Simply take Romans 6:16-23 and show
how/why it does not apply to losing eternal life.
Simple.

 

[brotherjerry]

Zach let me highlight some key words here for you.
Romans 6:16-23
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Notice a difference there Zach....Speaking to believers there....they "WERE" slaves to sin but "NOW" they "ARE" slaves to righteousness. Never once does Romans 6:16-23 imply, state, or infer that being a slave to righteousness is in the past tense. Paul expresses this concept earlier in Romans 6:6-7 "...so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin."

This has been shown to you before. These verses explain the difference between being saved and being lost. It is not about salvation being lost and you have yet to show where it says anything about being saved and losing salvation. While we were lost we were slaves to sin. And it was going to lead to the spiritual death. But accepting Christ as Paul states in Romans 6:3 "...all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death", makes us no longer slaves of sin, but slaves of righteousness.

Do you know your history? Are slaves in slavery because they want too? Can a slave leave his master any time he wants too? Why do you think the Bible uses terms like slavery to paint the picture of you and I? You can no easier leave your life of slavery in sin on your own. It takes someone else to come along and free you from the bondage of slavery. That someone else is Christ. And when you are no longer a slave to sin you are a slave to righteousness, a slave to Christ. Why do you treat this as if it was some job? Something you can decide you don't like anymore so you can up and quit your slavery to Christ status? Is God weaker than Satan and sin, that He can't keep you and protect you as His property?

I know my God. The God that saved me from my slavery to sin is stronger than that. My God promises that "they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28). And My God "is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand" (John 10:29). My God "thwarts the way of the wicked" (Psalm 146:9). Christ asked of the Father to "keep them from the evil one" (John 17:15) and the Lord "is faithful, and He will strengthen and protect you from the evil one" (2 Thessalonians 3:3). And I know that with God and because I know Christ that I "have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13).

So when you can back up your claims that Romans 6 is about losing your salvation and can point to where it says that in Romans 6 then perhaps I too will be like you and begin to doubt the power of my God. But until then I know that I am a slave to righteousness and my slave status is not anything that I can revoke, only the master can do that and there is no greater master than God.

 

[Rubiks]

Please note: this does not include Jesus’ warnings to everyone in the 4 Gospels!

No OSAS for Christians who are slaves of sin (who habitually practice sin)
Romans 6:16-23 • "… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves)
of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness
… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
For when you were slaves of sin … the end of those things is (eternal) death.
… For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …" --- 3 dire warnings in 8 verses!
Romans 8:13-14 • "For if you live according to the flesh you will die (eternal death);
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life).
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
Through the help of the Holy Spirit, we must put to death the sinful nature.
This, of course, is all part of walking on Jesus’ narrow path (Matthew 7:13-14).
IMO, you will make it to heaven, IF you sincerely repent of (forsake) your sins!

No OSAS for Christians who do not overcome all sins of every type
Revelation 21:7-8 • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Jesus is talking about anyone who is a habitual (unrepentant) sinner!
Revelation 3:5 • “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of (Eternal) Life …”
Revelation 3:21 • “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
Jesus did not overcome by believing He was/is the Son of God (re: 1 John 5:5).

No OSAS for Christians who do not sow and live according to the Spirit
Galatians 6:7-8 • “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows,
that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.”
Romans 8:5-6 • "For those who LIVE according to the flesh set their minds on the
things of the flesh, but those who LIVE according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally-minded is death, but to be spiritually-minded is life and peace.”
Decide for yourself: Are these passages contrasting eternal death with eternal life?

No OSAS for Christians who do not practice righteousness
1 John 3:7 • “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous”
The Christian who does not practice righteousness is not righteous in God’s eyes!

No OSAS for Christians who do not love and obey Jesus
John 14:15-23 • “If you love Me, keep (obey) My commandments …
He who has My commandments and keeps (obeys) them, it is he who loves Me …
If anyone loves Me, he will keep (obey) My word …”
Good question: Does anyone get to heaven who does not love Jesus?
Hebrews 5:9 • “He (Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”
Romans 6:16 • "… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin
leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness …”
James 1:12-15 • Those who endure the temptations to sin “will receive the
crown of (eternal) life, which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.”

No OSAS for Christians who draw back, fall away, do not endure in the faith, etc.
Here are just a few of those famous “conditional passages” …
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 • “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel … by which you are
saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you – unless you believed in vain.”
2 Corinthians 13:5 • “Examine yourself to see IF you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.”
Hebrews 3:14 • “For we have become partakers of Christ IF we hold the beginning
of our confidence steadfast to the end.”
1 Timothy 5:16 • “Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them,
for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.”
Does this remind you of “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12)?
Or Paul’s concern that after preaching to others he might be disqualified (1 Cor 9:27)?
Hebrews 10:36-39 • “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith; but IF anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.’ But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.”
In this last part, Paul displays his usual tactful method of softening his dire warnings
with encouragement and exhortation, and he is hopeful that none of them fall away!
Revelation 2:10 • “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of (eternal) life.”
The fun part about this is: “the crown of life” is eternal life! … Research it for yourself,
and note James 1:12-15 … he warns to not be deceived: sin brings forth eternal death.

No OSAS for Christians who don’t do what is required of them
1 Timothy 6:9-19 • “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
and into may foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil … Let them (rich Christians) do good,
that they may be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, storing up for them-
selves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.”
If you are a Christian who desires to be rich, beware of the possible consequences!
IMO, the “good foundation for the time to come” refers to when Christians are judged.
Jude 20-21 • “But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God,
looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.”
Our eternal life depends on Jesus’ mercy, which depends on us!
So, let us all agree: “Faith without works is dead (useless)” (James 2:20)

No OSAS for Christians who do not inherit (enter) the kingdom of God
First, these 2 passages prove that “the kingdom of God” is analogous to heaven …
Mark 9:47 • “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter
the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire”
Matthew 25:34-46 • “Come, you (the righteous) blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom
prepared for you from the foundation of the world … And these (the unrighteous)
will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
The unrighteous (e.g. habitual sinners) will NOT inherit the kingdom of God …
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 • “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit
the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters,
nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous,
nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
There are several “sin lists” which keep Christians out of the kingdom and heaven.

Note: I have not included in the above Jesus’ many warnings in the 4 Gospels.

cool story bro. tell it again

 

[DeaconDean]

Obviously the OP has his mind set and no amount of reasoning can sway them.

However, I offer this:

"11...A certain man had two sons:

12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.

27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.

28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.

29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found." -Lk. 15:11-32 (KJV)

When we accept Christ, when we believe, we become sons. (cf. Jn. 1:12)

As in the scriptures above, a man had two sons, one stayed home, one went out and had a "riotous living".

He came to his senses, and returned.

At what point did the son cease to be his fathers son?

As far as the father knew, the son was dead, but was found alive.

As far as the father knew, the son was lost, but is now found.

So here again, at what point did the son cease to be his fathers son?

Sure, we all sin, even after salvation we will sin sooner or later.

There is also:

"4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost." -Lk. 15:4-6 (KJV)

It is certainly possible for a Christian to "backslide".

But if we do, will Christ not come looking for us? If not, then the scriptures lie.

How many times in the OT did Israel "backslide"? It was so bad at one time God told them He divorced them.

"And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce;" -Jer. 3:8 (KJV)

So at what point did Israel cease to be God's people?

If you come to church, make a confession, get baptized, and leave the church and head right back out to the bar thinking you can live as you once did, and never live the lifestyle expected of Christians, then yes, OSAS is not true. It don't even apply to you, because you were never saved to begin with. (Cf. Mt. 13 and the parable of the sower)

However, if you are saved and just so happen to "backslide" we have the promise of Hebrews 12.

"5 My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness." -Heb. 12:5-10 (KJV)

So at what time did the mans son cease to be his fathers son?

At what time does Christ cease to search out His own sheep?

At what time did Israel cease to be God's chosen people?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[ZacharyB]

So when you can back up your claims that Romans 6 is about losing your salvation and can point to where it says that in Romans 6 then perhaps I too will be like you and begin to doubt the power of my God.

Okay, since you put so much effort into this, I will respond in kind.

First of all, born-again believers have been set free from being slaves of sin!
They have been set free to be ABLE to be everything God expects ...
to live free of sin, to live righteously, to live in obedience,
to be slaves of obedience, to be slaves of righteousness, to be slaves of God.
And all of this great stuff will result in holiness unto eternal life.
Wow, we agree on these points!

Romans 6 was written to born-again believers ...
who understand very well that sin results in eternal death, and etc. etc.?
All of this was NOT written to unbelievers, but to believers!

Ability to do stuff does not necessarily translate into action ...
Believers can actually CHOOSE to be habitual unrepentamt sinners!
Which is what these Roman believers have been doing,
and this is exactly what most western believers are presently involved in.

Believers have free will to sin, etc.
That's why Paul insists they must CHOOSE to:
-- NOT be slaves of sin
-- be slaves of obedience
-- be slaves of righteousness

Hence the 3 warnings in an 8-verse span re:
sin results in (eternal) death.
One lady in the UK admits all of the above,
butski she insists the warnings are about physical death!
I reply, yes, that's why our streets are littered with dead bodies
... because Jesus goes around killing all sinners.

Now, IF anyone understands all of these things, please raise your hand.
Or better still, inform us with a positive response.

 

[ZacharyB]

He came to his senses, and returned.

Yeah, broski, dat's exactly what it's all about ...
come to your senses, stop sinning, return to God.
Dat's what Paul was telling the Roman believers to do
... so their sinning would not result in their (eternal) death(s)!

It's called repentance ...
which is NOT taught in the feel-good western churches.
Repentance hurts 'cause it means giving up your favorite sins!
And it causes many to leave the churches, and their tithes go with 'em!
Everyone loses in the flesh.

 

[brotherjerry]

It's called repentance ...
which is NOT taught in the feel-good western churches.
Repentance hurts 'cause it means giving up your favorite sins!
And it causes many to leave the churches, and their tithes go with 'em!
Everyone loses in the flesh.

This shows your lack of understanding. Even proponents of eternal security understand the concept and meaning of repentance and practice it quite well.

As to Romans being just for believers...Paul rarely wrote just to believers because he understood just like Christ....he was not there for the believers but the unbelievers more so. Paul was writing in Chapter 6 about salvation and the state of a saved believer. That is why he continues to speak of being a slave to sin in the past tense. A believer is no longer a slave to sin. A believer is one who is freed from the bondage of sin. And Paul never says they can become a slave to sin again.

And throughout Romans 6 he never once mentions someone who was a slave to righteousness as in the past tense which would be someone who lost their salvation. Not once...you can look. So the contrast was between those that were slaves to sin but are now slaves to righteousness and those that are still slaves to sin. That is something you have yet to show is one instance of Paul speaking of being a slave to righteousness in the past tense. Let alone explain how one who is a slave can turn against his master?

 

[DeaconDean]

Yeah, broski, dat's exactly what it's all about ...
come to your senses, stop sinning, return to God.
Dat's what Paul was telling the Roman believers to do
... so their sinning would not result in their (eternal) death(s)!

But there is still nothing in this about a "born-again", "regenerated" sinner, losing their "eternal salvation."

It's called repentance ...
which is NOT taught in the feel-good western churches.
Repentance hurts 'cause it means giving up your favorite sins!
And it causes many to leave the churches, and their tithes go with 'em!
Everyone loses in the flesh.

Maybe not on your side of the country, but it is in Baptist churches here in No. Carolina.

John the Baptist taught repentance.

Jesus Christ taught repentance.

Paul taught repentance.

I teach repentance.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DeaconDean]

Romans 6 was written to born-again believers ...
who understand very well that sin results in eternal death, and etc. etc.?
All of this was NOT written to unbelievers, but to believers!

I have only one problem with this.

Was this not written after Paul disobeyed the Holy Spirit and after he broke the law?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[ZacharyB]

But there is still nothing in this about a "born-again", "regenerated" sinner, losing their "eternal salvation."

You get an A+ for originality! ... No one else has ever suggested that
Paul was NOT writing to born-again believers in the Roman churches!

The proof that he was ... was that he said they WERE slaves to sin before, etc.
ALL non true believers ARE slaves to sin, etc.

I understand Baptists teach a lot of false doctrine, butski this is ridiculous!

When y'all gonna enter into the real world of NT Christianity
where der is NO false doctrines of any kind?
When? 'Cause da time is almost up!

 

[Albion]

Thank you for clarifying your thinking, and it is quite impressive!
OSAS is obviously NOT "totally imposible from man's viewpoint" ... because
there are multitudes of believers who have been deceived into believing it..

Because the Bible teaches it, they're naturally going to believe it.

This issue is not as complicated or difficult as many people assume, and no one comes to believe in God's eternal faithfulness simply because it sounds good to their ears.

 

[ZacharyB]

Because the Bible teaches it, they're naturally going to believe it.

This issue is not as complicated or difficult as many people assume, and no one comes to believe in God's eternal faithfulness simply because it sounds good to their ears.

IMO, the Bible teaches both ... and that's the problem!
IMO, both groups must be reconciled ... and I believe I've done that.