No. 1 John 5:12 says he that HAS the Son has life and he that DOES NOT HAVE the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation. This is saying He that does not have the Son (in the sense of fellowship). HAVE the Son means you HAVE Jesus living within you.
Nope. Having "life" means having eternal life. That ESTABLISHES relationship. Upon which one can build fellowship.
No. "Relationship" and "fellowship" are the same thing.
This is the core problem with your view. They cannot be the same thing. Fellowship is BASED on relationship.
The failure to understand this difference dooms any hope of understanding the Scriptures.
For a father can not have a relationship with his son (even though they may be related by blood).
By the VERY FACT that one is father and the other is son speaks to RELATIONSHIP. A family relationship. And within THAT relationship, there may either be fellowship (harmony) or NO fellowship (lack of harmony), which the parable of the prodigal illustrates very well.
You also cannot claim to know someone you do not have fellowship with.
Once again, this is backward. One can know many people without having ANY fellowship with them.
John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).
Again, totally backwards. The knowledge here speaks to RELATIONSHIP, but since you've indicated ignorance of the difference, I understand your total confusion.
So God who is holy can make his home in a place of darkness and sin?
Does the Holy Spirit indwell every believer? Yes. Do believers sin? Yes.
Okay. You can keep believing that if you like. But I believe God is holy, just, and good and He does not reside in wicked rebellious sinners. God is good and He is not evil.
No one has ever said what you keep insinuating.
First, why would God force somebody up into heaven who doesn't really love Him (but they love their false gods instead)?
Force is never an issue. Why bring it up?
The reason your own view does NOT MAKE SENSE is because of the failure to understand the difference between relationship and fellowship.
If a person goes after other gods, they are showing they do not love the one true God anymore. For if a believer could be saved for worshiping false gods, then why can't unbelievers who worship false gods be saved, too?
The key is believing, as Scripture clearly teaches. That's why.
The believer who has turned aside to worship false gods is showing they really do not love or care to serve God anymore. Also, Revelation 21:8 does not distingish between believing idolaters and unbelieving ones.
The failure is your understanding, or more accurately, your misunderstanding of the verse.
No. The fire here is suggesting that they will be destroyed in the spiritual realm (i.e. by the Lake of Fire).
No, that's just your opinion about "fire".
Trees that do not bring forth fruit do not serve a purpose and will be cut down and destroyed. If something is destroyed it can no longer do anything because it is gone.
I've explained God's system of discipline which can involve physical death, but it seems there is an unwillingness to even consider that. And for no reason.
But I thought Jesus paid for your future sins? What need is there to cleanse of anymore sin?
And I have thoroughly explained all this as well. Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Please pay attention to my posts if you really want to continue discussion.
John 13 explains the need for one's feet to be washed in order to "have a part" (abide) with Jesus. Remember Peter?
6 So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, “Lord, do You wash my feet?”
7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter.”
8 Peter said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
9 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.”
10 Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”
11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”
v.7 indicates that Pete had no clue as to what Jesus was doing, but he would later.
v.8 Pete thinks it would be better for a whole bath rather than just his feet. And Jesus clarifies that apart from letting Him wash his feet, Peter would have no part with Him. This refers to having fellowship rather than relationship, as v.9 clarifies.
v.9 Jesus' answer clarifies the issue: Peter ALREADY had a bath, and WAS CLEAN. Jesus also indicated that there was someone there who was NOT CLEAN, ie, was not saved.
In the culture of that day, everyone walked on paths along with animals, and got their feet dirty from animal feces. So it was NECESSARY to have one's feet washed when they came to someone's home in order to not be offensive to the homeowner. This was a strictly practical thing; feet washing. Just as not washing one's feet after walking on the paths would be highly offensive to any homeowner, and interfere with fellowship, so also the believer who "walks in the world" gets their "feet dirty" (offensive to God, and blocks fellowship). That is why we need to regularly confess our sins for cleansing. Not for salvation, for we are, as Jesus said, "already clean", but to remove the offensive odor that walking in the world results in; sin.
Jesus uses this practical procedure to teach a point about how to "have a part" with Him. Fellowship requires removal of everything offensive to God. Which is what confession of sin accomplishes.
See, nowhere does John's epistle teach that one is breaking fellowship with God and yet they are still saved.
Some just don't want to see it.
No verse in John's epistle teaches such a thing. 1 John 1:8 is a warning of the false gnostic teaching of those who believed sin does not exist on some level.
We've been over this too many times. It's clearly a statement that anyone who claims to be "without sin" is a LIAR and has no truth in them. So whenever you think you have arrived as "sinless perfection", this verse will apply to you perfectly.
Christian Scientists falsely believe sin is an illusion; And Eternal Security Proponents falsely believe that they sin physically but they do not sin on a spiritual level because all their present and future sins are forgiven them.
I've never heard this junk. Where did you make that up from?
Even though all of our sins HAVE been paid for, and forgiven, they still get our "feet dirty" and we need to keep cleaning our feet in order to have fellowship.
But, once again, since there is a complete lack of understanding of what fellowship even is, I see no point in explaining it over and over.
For if 1 John 1:8 is saying that one will always be in sin, then one must believe it is not possible to stop sinning for even 5 minutes. Surely this is not what you believe.
Your imagination surely does run wild. That verse absolutely does NOT say what is being claimed. It doesn't mean that one will ALWAYS be in sin. What it clearly SAYS is that no one will ever achieve sinless perfection.
The Jews were cut off spiritually and not physically. We are told to continue in God's goodness (i.e. His righteousness) otherwise we can be but off just like the Jews were cut off (spiritually).
Please prove that to be "cut off" means loss of salvation then.
For it does not make any sense that this is talking about physical death. With the exception of the Rapture event, whether one is a believer or an unbeliever, they will all die physically (This physical death can happen at different ages)....
The difference is that God's divine discipline leading to physical death also results in loss of reward. No small thing.
