Against Ecumenism

[emil_g]

Hello Suzannah!

I think I can answer the last part. Jehova W. are not Trinitarian at all. Other neo-Prot. groups are also non-Trinitarian

I know this, i asked my question to show there is a big difference between the classic protestant churches and neo-protestant groups and our Church knows that.

i want to note only that:

Other neo-Prot. groups are also non-Trinitarian

Not at all. There are many neo-protestant groups who are Trinitarians. For example , ordenating of pentacostal (who are Trinitarians) does not recognize of our Church.

I think this Encomia makes a certain amount of sense.."We know where the Church is, but not where it isn't.."

I agree

I do not know any response to the first part of your post...sorry! Wish I could be more help!

You're meaning my quote ?

I think there is one Church - Orthodoxal Church and anglicans and lutherans are in it.

:0)

 

[vanshan]

"I think there is one Church - Orthodoxal Church and anglicans and lutherans are in it."

This is a common view held by many, but it only serves to keep people from receiving the fullness of God's grace, which is held in Orthodoxy. We know that God works beyond His Church, but we also know that the sacraments can only be given to the body by canonical clergy. If a body is separated by a breach in Apostolic succession and a breach of heretical belief and practices they are removed from Christ's body and face life without the full aid the Church of Christ was established to serve. I have been on both sides, so I feel confident in making these statements which must seem harsh to those on the outside, but like myself, I'm sure each of you would be warmly embraced by Orthodoxy if you choose.

My Lutheran baptism was accepted by economy, but chrismation into Orthodoxy was required to fulfill that which was lacking in my Lutheran infant baptism. My baptism was not complete until a valid priest made right that sacrament.

Aside from the lack of apostolic authority in the anglican and lutheran denominations, there are serious deviations from the historic teachings of Orthodoxy.

 

[St. Tikon]

I did not deride him or ROCOR I said they were not my superiors. The bishops of ROCOR are not part of SCOBA, the clergy of ROCOR in my area of the country are not part of the Orthodox Clergy Associations, and the ROCOR parishes do not join us in the Sunday of Orthodoxy.
Jeff the Finn

In my area they ARE a part of the Orthodox Clergy Association
In my church, we also commune OCA, Antiochians & Greeks.

 

[emil_g]

Hello vanshan,
Brother , where are you from?

Aside from the lack of apostolic authority in the anglican and lutheran denominations, there are serious deviations from the historic teachings of Orthodoxy

I exactly know that most of lutherans and whole of anglicans has apostolic succession. What deviations you are meaning?
IMHO difference between us is not so serious. And I hope that soon we will be together

 

[Reader Nilus]

In my area they ARE a part of the Orthodox Clergy Association
In my church, we also commune OCA, Antiochians & Greeks.

The Washington State Orthodox Clergy Association
Jeff the Finn

 

[ChoirDir]

Ok this is a hot one I see. I've been playing catch up. From Father John Matusiak at the OCA

The relationship between the OCA and ROCOR has ties to decades of history driven by events surrounding and following the Russian Revolution. I am sure that your parish priest can direct you to resources by which you can read up on the background of the current situation, which is long and complex and beyond the scope of an email answer. The bottom line is that ROCOR sees itself as the continuation of the Russian Church and rejects the Patriarchate of Moscow with which the OCA is in communion.

 

[ChoirDir]

Ok Protopresbyter Robert Kondratick has an article on Ecumenism
http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Publications/TOC/1998/Good-and-Wrong-Ecumenism.html

 

[St. Tikon]

Ok this is a hot one I see. I've been playing catch up. From Father John Matusiak at the OCA

My understanding is that we WERE the legitimate Russian Church until the fall of communism, etc. Patriarch Tikhon released the Russian Church from allegiance to the Patriarchate, until such time as the Church was once again free from the Godless Bolshevik atheists. My understanding is that now, negotiations are in progress to once more join the Mother Church once again.

 

[St. Tikon]

Ok Protopresbyter Robert Kondratick has an article on Ecumenism
http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Publications/TOC/1998/Good-and-Wrong-Ecumenism.html

"The answer to the much-debated question of Orthodox participation in the ecumenical movement lies in distinguishing between "good" and "wrong" ecumenism and in discerning, as Saint Paul writes, the spirits with which we are surrounded. Indeed, while there is much within today's ecumenism which challenges and even shocks Orthodox sensibilities, would not a total retreat into ourselves prevent "the wide opportunity [to present] an articulate Orthodox witness" of which Father John speaks?

I, like many, struggle to discern the answer."



Myself as well....as Shakespeare said "That IS the question!"

 

[St. Tikon]

The Washington State Orthodox Clergy Association
Jeff the Finn

In MY area ROCA participates.

 

[Photini]

Tikon,
Have you read Hymn of Entry by Archimandrite Vasileios? After reading just the first few pages, I began to see ecumenism in a whole new light, and understand a little more clearly why "wrong" ecumenism is deadly. I knew it was terrible before, but now am beginning to understand a little better why.

The very first paragraph begins, "Unity in the Orthodox Church is to be understood not as a mere administrative arrangement and a human achievement, but as a manifestation of grace and as the fulness of the new life which renews the earth-born and the whole of their world.
Theology does not have a philosophy of its own, nor spirituality of its own, nor church administration a system of its own, nor hagiography its own artistic school. All these emerge from the same font of liturgical experience. They all function together in a trinitarian way, singing the trice-holy hymn in their own languages. "Everything begins to speak with strange new dogmas, strange words and the strange teachings of the Holy Trinity.*"

What a wonderful little book this is turning out to be!!

*Verses at Lauds and at Sunday evening Vespers, Pentecost