- Jan 31, 2013
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I decided to do a study on where we go when we die. It has been a very interesting study but I have not come to any conclusions as of yet. I thought I would share my research and see if anyone could add to it. I would prefer scripture backup and not just opinions if possible. And don’t go beating me up, I am a student of the bible and hope to stay that way until I die. And please understand I could not give a hoot what actually happens since no matter what, my assurance is in Christ on where I finally end up. So, here is what I have gathered so far.
We are made up of 3 parts, spirit, soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23) so I have broken this into 3 parts as well
The Spirit
From an article I found online:
At death the spirit (not the soul) returns to God. (Eccl. 12:7; Luke 23:46 , Acts 7:55-60). However the spirit is not the consciousness, the ego. The spirit is associated with the breath, and is that force from God which produces life (Gen. 7:22 R.V. Gen. 2:7; Job 27:3; John 6:63). The union of the breath of the spirit of life with the body produces the consciousness. When this union is dissolved by death the consciousness ceases to exist until resurrection (Psa. 146:1-4; Eccl.9:5; Rev.20:5). The further fact that the dead are said to be asleep proves that consciousness is gone. Conversely resurrection is referred to as an awakening of the dead.
My comments to that
Yet Luke 16:22-24 would indicate that the dead are conscious. But Gen 2:7 says when the Spirit of God comes into a body we becoming a living soul, so if the Spirit leaves the soul I would think we are a dead soul then. Which would bring me to the conclusion that a dead soul is conscious but considered dead without the Spirit.
Your Body
This one is pretty obvious and requires no scriptural backup. When you die (physical death) your body ceases to function. The physical body remains in the grave and returns to dust (Genesis 3:19).
Your Soul
Now this one is the challenging one.
Andrew Wommack Commentary note on John 5:28 states
No one is actually in the grave. The Bible does not teach a “soul sleep,” as some people try to make it say. At physical death, the soul and the spirit separate from the body (James 2:26 with Revelation 6:9) and either go immediately to be with the Lord (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 4:16-18, 5:1-10; and Philippians 1:23) or to Hades (also called Gehenna; Luke 16:22-23).
My comment to that
Now I like Wommack but do not see how he can say the Bible does not teach soul sleep. The Bible mentions we are asleep over 50 times. Why would it say asleep and not dead? Could “asleep” mean the state we are in when the soul is not joined with the Spirit? Luke 16:23 points out that Lazarus was able to see so there seems to be some consciousness while we are in this state.
Now whether the soul stays with the body or goes to a holding place (Paradise) that I am not clear on. Seems unlikely that our soul would stay with the body. Example, cremation. Notice in John 14:3 that Jesus said he would come for the apostles, yet he didn't, they all died. So, could they be waiting for Him in the tombs or the area in Hades called Paradise? Before Jesus's resurrection it seems clear that Paradise was that holding place per Luke 23:43, 16:22-23 , Acts 2:29,34. So the confusing part is, if Jesus cleared out Paradise (John 5:28) where do New Testament folks go when they die? If heaven then why did Jesus tell the apostles He would come and get them (John 14:3)?
Also, when he was resurrected, did everyone in Paradise at that time get released? Also notice 2 Cor 12:4 says Paul went to Paradise yet this was after the resurrection. Which would seem to indicate this area of Hade existed after the resurrection.
And then there is 2 Cor 5:8 about being absent from the body. This was something interesting I found online http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/PresentWithLord.html Here is an excerpt
1 Thes 4:17 would indicate we are in a holding area since this was written AFTER Jesus went to Paradise and on to heaven. It also mentions it is at this point we will be with the Lord forever.
And Phil. 1:21-23 , 2 Cor. 5:6-8 which talks about being present with the Lord at death. Could this be talking about our spirit which returns to God when we die (Eccl. 12:7) and not our soul? Another thought , God does not live in time/space and we do, so our thinking is linear.
Some say that the soul ceases to exist at death because they say the spirit and body make up the soul. I could not find any scriptures to support this.
From another article online
The Scriptures most definitely teach that at death the soul dies. For example, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezk. 18:4, 20); "He spared not their soul from death" (Psa. 78:50); "He hath poured out His soul unto death" (Isa. 53:12). Strange as it may seem the Scriptures never speak of the "immortality of the soul." The Greek word athanasia, which means immortality occurs only three times in the word of God: twice in 1 Cor. 15:53, 54; and once in 1 Tim. 6:16.
My comments to that
Not sure I agree. This could be talking about spiritual death not physical death. Separation from God, not actually the final separation of the soul and God’s Spirit.
Something else interesting
Jesus preaches in Paradise Luke 23:43 , 1 Peter 4:6 and 1 Pet 3:19. Luke points out He went to Paradise but the 1 Peter verse points out he preached to spirits in PRISON and 4:6 seems to indicate humans. First if our spirits return to God when we die (Ecc 12:7) then I would think these are NOT human spirits. Not to mention these spirits were in prison. What is that all about?
And notice in John 11:4 Jesus said Lazarus was not dead. Yet the verse above 1 Peter 4:6 says Jesus preached to the dead. Unless he actually spoke to the Hade side of Paradise and gave those folks a change for salvation. So, could it be that God sees death completely different than us. Dah, obviously He does. We see it as when life leaves the body. Yet God maybe sees it as when you are actually in Hade and you are completely separated from Him. When Jesus said this about Lazarus it was pre-cross/resurrection so maybe he was waiting in Paradise until Jesus called him back.
So is John 5:28 speaking of when Jesus went to Paradise/Hades or the 2nd coming. If it is talking about when Jesus went to Paradise/hell then He emptied those places. Take those in Paradise to heaven and If it is the 2nd coming then when we die and end up in Paradise/Hades with everyone including the OT saints.
We are made up of 3 parts, spirit, soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23) so I have broken this into 3 parts as well
The Spirit
From an article I found online:
At death the spirit (not the soul) returns to God. (Eccl. 12:7; Luke 23:46 , Acts 7:55-60). However the spirit is not the consciousness, the ego. The spirit is associated with the breath, and is that force from God which produces life (Gen. 7:22 R.V. Gen. 2:7; Job 27:3; John 6:63). The union of the breath of the spirit of life with the body produces the consciousness. When this union is dissolved by death the consciousness ceases to exist until resurrection (Psa. 146:1-4; Eccl.9:5; Rev.20:5). The further fact that the dead are said to be asleep proves that consciousness is gone. Conversely resurrection is referred to as an awakening of the dead.
My comments to that
Yet Luke 16:22-24 would indicate that the dead are conscious. But Gen 2:7 says when the Spirit of God comes into a body we becoming a living soul, so if the Spirit leaves the soul I would think we are a dead soul then. Which would bring me to the conclusion that a dead soul is conscious but considered dead without the Spirit.
Your Body
This one is pretty obvious and requires no scriptural backup. When you die (physical death) your body ceases to function. The physical body remains in the grave and returns to dust (Genesis 3:19).
Your Soul
Now this one is the challenging one.
Andrew Wommack Commentary note on John 5:28 states
No one is actually in the grave. The Bible does not teach a “soul sleep,” as some people try to make it say. At physical death, the soul and the spirit separate from the body (James 2:26 with Revelation 6:9) and either go immediately to be with the Lord (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 4:16-18, 5:1-10; and Philippians 1:23) or to Hades (also called Gehenna; Luke 16:22-23).
My comment to that
Now I like Wommack but do not see how he can say the Bible does not teach soul sleep. The Bible mentions we are asleep over 50 times. Why would it say asleep and not dead? Could “asleep” mean the state we are in when the soul is not joined with the Spirit? Luke 16:23 points out that Lazarus was able to see so there seems to be some consciousness while we are in this state.
Now whether the soul stays with the body or goes to a holding place (Paradise) that I am not clear on. Seems unlikely that our soul would stay with the body. Example, cremation. Notice in John 14:3 that Jesus said he would come for the apostles, yet he didn't, they all died. So, could they be waiting for Him in the tombs or the area in Hades called Paradise? Before Jesus's resurrection it seems clear that Paradise was that holding place per Luke 23:43, 16:22-23 , Acts 2:29,34. So the confusing part is, if Jesus cleared out Paradise (John 5:28) where do New Testament folks go when they die? If heaven then why did Jesus tell the apostles He would come and get them (John 14:3)?
Also, when he was resurrected, did everyone in Paradise at that time get released? Also notice 2 Cor 12:4 says Paul went to Paradise yet this was after the resurrection. Which would seem to indicate this area of Hade existed after the resurrection.
And then there is 2 Cor 5:8 about being absent from the body. This was something interesting I found online http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/PresentWithLord.html Here is an excerpt
1 Thes 4:17 would indicate we are in a holding area since this was written AFTER Jesus went to Paradise and on to heaven. It also mentions it is at this point we will be with the Lord forever.
And Phil. 1:21-23 , 2 Cor. 5:6-8 which talks about being present with the Lord at death. Could this be talking about our spirit which returns to God when we die (Eccl. 12:7) and not our soul? Another thought , God does not live in time/space and we do, so our thinking is linear.
Some say that the soul ceases to exist at death because they say the spirit and body make up the soul. I could not find any scriptures to support this.
From another article online
The Scriptures most definitely teach that at death the soul dies. For example, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezk. 18:4, 20); "He spared not their soul from death" (Psa. 78:50); "He hath poured out His soul unto death" (Isa. 53:12). Strange as it may seem the Scriptures never speak of the "immortality of the soul." The Greek word athanasia, which means immortality occurs only three times in the word of God: twice in 1 Cor. 15:53, 54; and once in 1 Tim. 6:16.
My comments to that
Not sure I agree. This could be talking about spiritual death not physical death. Separation from God, not actually the final separation of the soul and God’s Spirit.
Something else interesting
Jesus preaches in Paradise Luke 23:43 , 1 Peter 4:6 and 1 Pet 3:19. Luke points out He went to Paradise but the 1 Peter verse points out he preached to spirits in PRISON and 4:6 seems to indicate humans. First if our spirits return to God when we die (Ecc 12:7) then I would think these are NOT human spirits. Not to mention these spirits were in prison. What is that all about?
And notice in John 11:4 Jesus said Lazarus was not dead. Yet the verse above 1 Peter 4:6 says Jesus preached to the dead. Unless he actually spoke to the Hade side of Paradise and gave those folks a change for salvation. So, could it be that God sees death completely different than us. Dah, obviously He does. We see it as when life leaves the body. Yet God maybe sees it as when you are actually in Hade and you are completely separated from Him. When Jesus said this about Lazarus it was pre-cross/resurrection so maybe he was waiting in Paradise until Jesus called him back.
So is John 5:28 speaking of when Jesus went to Paradise/Hades or the 2nd coming. If it is talking about when Jesus went to Paradise/hell then He emptied those places. Take those in Paradise to heaven and If it is the 2nd coming then when we die and end up in Paradise/Hades with everyone including the OT saints.
