• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

afganistan wemon

KeepTheFaith15

Thats Me whats can i say?
Hello,

Im writing this to see people's opinion on what afgan wemon have to go through. do you think it's right that some afgan people get discriminated against just because of what some(osama ect..) did to america. also do you think it's right that wemon in afganistan dont get freedom of speech, have to wear those certain clothing over the faces, all this came into my head because i watched 7th heaven and it was focused on this issue, it made me extremly sad, that when you and i go out day to day wearing clothes we are allowed to wear, saying what we can say, whats up with freedom of speech why dont they get it? i mean it's saddening that they wear certian clothing hiding their faces and bodies,it's like the husbands and fathers and brothers and dad's are ashamed that wemon are evn in that country. now i may be way out of bounds on this but what is yall's take on afgan wemon, the whole discrimination. it may not be anything yall are concerned about,i wasnt until just after the show was over, it made me mad and sad both all together. whats your take?
 
It's not just the Afghan women, but all women that live in Islamic nations.

Why does this happen? Because their "holy" book that they follow (Koran) says women should not have a voice, and it is ok for men to beat them when they want to.

Islamic governments are allowed to enforce any laws they want to on women, because their religious law (in the Koran) tells them to.

BTW, I am a fan of that 7th Heaven show. Some episodes are a little Biblically weak and too politically correct, but it's still better than other options normally.
 
Upvote 0

Jenna

Senior Veteran
Jun 13, 2002
3,089
192
Michigan
Visit site
✟4,598.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Im writing this to see people's opinion on what afgan wemon have to go through. do you think it's right that some afgan people get discriminated against just because of what some(osama ect..) did to america. also do you think it's right that wemon in afganistan dont get freedom of speech, have to wear those certain clothing over the faces, all this came into my head because i watched 7th heaven and it was focused on this issue, it made me extremly sad, that when you and i go out day to day wearing clothes we are allowed to wear, saying what we can say, whats up with freedom of speech why dont they get it? i mean it's saddening that they wear certian clothing hiding their faces and bodies,it's like the husbands and fathers and brothers and dad's are ashamed that wemon are evn in that country. now i may be way out of bounds on this but what is yall's take on afgan wemon, the whole discrimination. it may not be anything yall are concerned about,i wasnt until just after the show was over, it made me mad and sad both all together. whats your take?


There you go, Vow. That was what KeepTheFaith15's post said. :)
 
Upvote 0

Jenna

Senior Veteran
Jun 13, 2002
3,089
192
Michigan
Visit site
✟4,598.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Well, as far as the discrimination goes, it is not limited to just those who are from Afghanistan (sp?). There was a woman in my Church whose adopted son was from columbia, and because he had the darker olive colored skin that is also common with those of the middle east, he was attacked and beaten after what happened on 9/11. I personally think that that kind of behavior is disgusting, no matter where folks are from.

As far as hajib goes, I think that one must keep in mind the difference between modesty and overbearing control by others. There are alot of women all over the world who choose to cover because they believe that it is modest and right, not only muslims, but many jewish and Christian women also. The voluntary submission to God in an effort to do His will, I could not fault any woman for. I think that it only becomes harmful when it gets to the point where, like the Pharisees, religious and political (sometimes the same) leaders take it upon themselves to try and force compliance to what they see as God's will for us all. God gave us free will, including the will to turn from what he wants, so I think that it is rediculous that God would give us a freedom only to have man take that away. Now I realize that it is different for muslims, in that they don't have the freedom from law that we know, but extremism is still just that. As far as I know, so long as a woman only shows her face, hands, and feet, she is still keeing with hijab even if she decides not to wear the large burka (sp?) that also covers the face and sometimes eyes.

All in all though, I have not read enough of the Qu'ran to be able to say exactly what, if any, has been carried beyone the words of their holy book.  Maybe we could get Muslimah in here to give us an idea about what is up and what the Qu'ran says on the subject.
 
Upvote 0
I have studied the Koran extensively, have lived in an Islamic nation as a Christian, and have written several articles and a book about Islam.  Anything I could try to help out with I'd be glad to fill in.

Women under the authority of the Islamic government in Iran are only allowed to show their eyes in public.  Women in Malaysia under the authority of the Islamic government are required to wear something called a Blaju Malayu, which is a long dress with a head covering.   Their faces can be shown.  However, in Malaysia the law is enforced less in certain areas. 

All Islamic governements adhere to the Koran, and base their authority of it to whatever legat extent they feel is necessary.  In many Muslim nations, that includes sanction of assault, torture, or death for those native citizens who refuse to worship Allah.  In all Muslim nations, men are given the legal right to assualt their wives and daughters if they feel it's necessary.

From Islams holy books:

"Men take authority over women... As for those who are disobedient, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (Surah 4:34)


"Kill the Mushrikun (polytheists, Christian and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But, if they repent and perform As-salat (public prayer with Muslims) and give Zakat (Islamic alms), then leave their way free. Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful" (Sarat At-Taubah 9:5).

Make war on them (Christians and Jews) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme--The Spoils 8:37-41.


[<B>4.34</B>] Men are the maintainers of<B> women</B> because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good<B> women</B> are therefore obedient,

. . .We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom Allah has given you as booty: the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and the other women who gave themselves to you and whom you wish to take in marriage-The Confederate Tribes 33:49-50


Article on Islamic treatment of women:

http://thespiritofislam.com/text/Q62.html

Book/articles on Islam:

http://www.jiloa.org

&nbsp;

BTW, it should be noted for all that the Bible says men and women are to be treated equally&nbsp;with the Love of God&nbsp;rooting the center of the relationship.&nbsp; Men are not to hit women, and men are not to take more than one wife.&nbsp;

I think you put it so well, everyone should be given the free choice.&nbsp; I also really liked your testimony, I never tire of reading a well written Believer's testimony.&nbsp; Very encouraging to hear you&nbsp;came&nbsp;to Christ by studying online.&nbsp; Praise God!
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by KeepTheFaith15
Hello,

Im writing this to see people's opinion on what afgan wemon have to go through. do you think it's right that some afgan people get discriminated against just because of what some(osama ect..) did to america.

Muslims in America get discriminated against to , cause of what Osama supposedly did to America.

I was told a story of a small 10 year old boy , his mother was telling the story , he went to buy lunch at the local store with his 6 year old brother , he was waiting in line and this American guy looks at the 10 year old muslim and says 'What are you looking at?' the boy says 'nothing..' and then the American goes and punches the boy in the face. The boy is lying on the floor crying and there are other people there..but no one does anything or says anything to this man.
No one helps the boy or asks if hes ok.
So what do you call that , Discrimination?

Originally posted by KeepTheFaith15
Hello,

also do you think it's right that wemon in Afghanistan don't get freedom of speech, have to wear those certain clothing over the faces,

There was a group in Afghanistan called RAWA..they totally disobeyed the taliban and did what they liked , they wore nail polish , started under ground schools :p
But they still covered.

If you watch tv and u see Afghanistan now , The women are still wearing their burqa but their isn't anyone enforcing it on them now, is there?
They wear it for Allah , to please Allah , not the people of the world.

Originally posted by KeepTheFaith15
Hello,

all this came into my head because i watched 7th heaven and it was focused on this issue, it made me extremely sad, that when you and i go out day to day wearing clothes we are allowed to wear, saying what we can say, whats up with freedom of speech why dont they get it? i mean it's saddening that they wear certain clothing hiding their faces and bodies,


the west thinks if you cover then your not free..
Islam teaches modesty , Muslim women cover because they want to , They cover to please their lord and they are happy with what they do.
They arent feeling oppressed.

There are muslims who also dont cover and they wear whatever they like , tight clothes and all , These women don't wish to cover themselves like they should do and no one enforces covering on them.

My point is , the women you see covering their faces , covering their hair , wearing loose clothes and all , they are doing it cause they want to , not cause anyone is forcing them.
So your pity or whatever is not needed :)

Originally posted by KeepTheFaith15
Hello,

it's like the husbands and fathers and brothers and dad's are ashamed that wemon are evn in that country. now

At home they don't cover infront of their families or other muslim women.
In Islam the women is just as important as the man , so if anyone is feeling ashamed of having a daughter instead of a son , that is certainly wrong.
Why would a brother or husband feel ashamed of having a wife or sister? :scratch:
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by Kyle
It's not just the Afghan women, but all women that live in Islamic nations.

Why does this happen? Because their "holy" book that they follow (Koran) says women should not have a voice, and it is ok for men to beat them when they want to.

Islamic governments are allowed to enforce any laws they want to on women, because their religious law (in the Koran) tells them to.

BTW, I am a fan of that 7th Heaven show. Some episodes are a little Biblically weak and too politically correct, but it's still better than other options normally.

I dunno what Quran you've been reading dude..
Please show proof from Quran where it says , 'Beat your women when ever you like'.
Please show proof from Quran where it says , 'Oppress your women and do not be kind to them'.


:rolleyes:
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by Kyle
I have studied the Koran extensively, have lived in an Islamic nation as a Christian, and have written several articles and a book about Islam.&nbsp; Anything I could try to&nbsp;help out with I'd be glad to fill in.

Women under the authority of the Islamic government in Iran are only allowed to show their eyes in public.&nbsp; Women in Malaysia under the authority of the Islamic government&nbsp;are required to wear something&nbsp;called a Blaju Malayu, which is a long dress with a head covering.&nbsp;&nbsp; Their faces can&nbsp;be shown. &nbsp;However, in Malaysia the law is enforced less in certain areas.&nbsp;

All Islamic governements&nbsp;adhere to the Koran,&nbsp;and base their authority of it to whatever legat extent they feel is necessary.&nbsp;&nbsp;In many Muslim nations, that includes sanction of&nbsp;assault,&nbsp;torture, or death for those&nbsp;native citizens who refuse to worship Allah.&nbsp; In all Muslim nations, men are given the legal right to assualt their wives and daughters if they feel it's necessary.

From Islams holy books:

"Men take authority over women... As for those who are disobedient, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (Surah 4:34)


"Kill the Mushrikun (polytheists, Christian and non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But, if they repent and perform As-salat (public prayer with Muslims) and give Zakat (Islamic alms), then leave their way free. Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful" (Sarat At-Taubah 9:5).

Make war on them (Christians and Jews) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme--The Spoils 8:37-41.


[<B>4.34</B>] Men are the maintainers of<B> women</B> because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good<B> women</B> are therefore obedient,

. . .We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom Allah has given you as booty: the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and the other women who gave themselves to you and whom you wish to take in marriage-The Confederate Tribes 33:49-50


Article on Islamic treatment of women:

http://thespiritofislam.com/text/Q62.html

Book/articles on Islam:

http://www.jiloa.org

&nbsp;

BTW, it should be noted for all that the Bible says men and women are to be treated equally&nbsp;with the Love of God&nbsp;rooting the center of the relationship.&nbsp; Men are not to hit women, and men are not to take more than one wife.&nbsp;

I think you put it so well, everyone should be given the free choice.&nbsp; I also really liked your testimony, I never tire of reading a well written Believer's testimony.&nbsp; Very encouraging to hear you&nbsp;came&nbsp;to Christ by studying online.&nbsp; Praise God!

If your gonna make things up , out of your head , then im not gonna bother with anything you say , Allah will deal with you on Judgement Day :)
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by Kyle

"Men take authority over women... As for those who are disobedient, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (Surah 4:34)

It actually goes like this...

Surah 4 : 34

4:34. ‘Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what God would have them guard.

As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance):

For God is Most High, Great (above you all).

There is an entire page that explains this verse here :
http://members.aol.com/Ruqaiyyah/articles/beating.htm
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by Kyle
Make war on them (Christians and Jews) until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme--The Spoils 8:37-41.

It actually goes like this..

Sura 8 - Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War) Ayat 37 to 41

Ayat 37 - English (Yusuf Ali):
8:37 In order that Allah may separate the impure from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost.

Ayat 38 - English (Yusuf Ali):
8:38 Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).

Ayat 39 - English (Yusuf Ali):
8:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

Ayat 40 - English (Yusuf Ali):
8:40 If they refuse, be sure that Allah is your Protector - the best to protect and the best to help.

Ayat 41 - English (Yusuf Ali):
8:41 And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,- if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.

In Islam we are taught if you are being oppressed or if people are oppressing and trying to stop you from following ur Islam , Then you can fight the oppressors.
If they arent trying to oppress you then you don't fight with them.

You can see that in the above Ayats

Gee Kyle you don't seem to be telling the entire truth here , making it up as u go along , changing it to suit ur needs :rolleyes:
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by Kyle



[4.34 Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient,
. . .We have made lawful to you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom Allah has given you as booty: the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts who fled with you; and the other women who gave themselves to you and whom you wish to take in marriage-The Confederate Tribes 33:49-50



It actually goes like this..

Sura 33 - Al-Ahzab (The Confederates)

Ayat 49 - English (Yusuf Ali):
33:49 O ye who believe! When ye marry believing women, and then divorce them before ye have touched them, no period of 'Iddat have ye to count in respect of them: so give them a present. And set them free in a handsome manner.

Ayat 50 - English (Yusuf Ali):
33:50 O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Originally posted by Kyle


Article on Islamic treatment of women:

http://thespiritofislam.com/text/Q62.html

Book/articles on Islam:

http://www.jiloa.org

_

BTW, it should be noted for all that the Bible says men and women are to be treated equally_with the Love of God_rooting the center of the relationship._ Men are not to hit women, and men are not to take more than one wife._

I think you put it so well, everyone should be given the free choice._ I also really liked your testimony, I never tire of reading a well written Believer's testimony._ Very encouraging to hear you_came_to Christ by studying online._ Praise God!
[/I]


Hmmm What was that thing about the eating of the apple being all eves fault?
:rolleyes:

I'm sure ur article on Islamic treatment of women is one you wrote , filled with lies , just like ur posts here :rolleyes:

If any of you who read this want the truth on the Status of Women in Islam then
Visit this page : http://www.ais.org/~islam/author/badawi.html
and read articles 1 & 2 'The Status of Woman in Islam ' & 'Gender Equity in Islam'

:)
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by Jenna
As far as I know, so long as a woman only shows her face, hands, and feet, she is still keeing with hijab even if she decides not to wear the large burka (sp?) that also covers the face and sometimes eyes.

All in all though, I have not read enough of the Qu'ran to be able to say exactly what, if any, has been carried beyone the words of their holy book. &nbsp;Maybe we could get Muslimah in here to give us an idea about what is up and what the Qu'ran says on the subject.

The Quran says..

Surah Al-Nour (The Light) - Ayat 30 - English (Yusuf Ali):
24:30 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

&

Surah Al-Nour (The Light) - Ayat 31 - English (Yusuf Ali):
24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

&

Surah Al-Ahzab (The Confederates) - Ayat 59 - English (Yusuf Ali):
33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.

There is discussion on if the Niqab (face covering) is fard (obligatory) or not.

Hijab is more than just a scarf..
Taken from: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/whatishijab.html

The word "hijab" comes from the Arabic word "hajaba" meaning to hide from view or conceal. In the present time, the context of hijab is the modest covering of a Muslim woman. The question now is what is the extent of the covering? The Qur'an says:

"Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)
These verses from the Qur'an contain two main injunctions:

1. A woman should not show her beauty or adornments except what appears by uncontrolled factors such as the wind blowing her clothes, and

2. the head covers should be drawn so as to cover the hair, the neck and the bosom.
Islam has no fixed standard as to the style of dress or type of clothing that Muslims must wear. However, some requirements must be met. The first of these requirements is the parts of the body which must be covered. Islam has two sources for guidance and rulings: first, the Qur'an, the revealed word of Allah and secondly, the Hadith or the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (S) who was chosen by Allah to be the role model for mankind. The following is a Tradition of the Prophet:

"Ayesha (R) reported that Asmaa the daughter of Abu Bakr (R) came to the Messenger of Allah (S) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asmaa! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands." (Abu Dawood)

The second requirement is looseness. The clothing must be loose enough so as not to describe the shape of the woman's body. One desirable way to hide the shape of the body is to wear a cloak over other clothes. However, if the clothing is loose enough, an outer garment is not necessary. Thickness is the third requirement. The clothing must be thick enough so as not to show the color of the skin it covers or the shape of the body.

The Prophet Muhammad (S) stated that in later generations of his ummah there would be "women who would be dressed but naked and on top of their heads (what looks like) camel humps. Curse them for they are truly cursed." (Muslim) Another requirement is an over-all dignified appearance. The clothing should not attract men's attention to the woman. It should not be shiny and flashy so that everyone notices the dress and the woman. In addition there are other requirements:

1. Women must not dress so as to appear as men.
"Ibn Abbas narrated: 'The Prophet (S) cursed the men who appear like women and the women who appear like men.'" (Bukhari)

2. Women should not dress in a way similar to the unbelievers.

3. The clothing should be modest, not excessively fancy and also not excessively ragged to gain others admiration or sympathy.
Often forgotten is the fact that modern Western dress is a new invention. Looking at the clothing of women as recently as seventy years ago, we see clothing similar to hijab. These active and hard-working women of the West were not inhibited by their clothing which consisted of long, full dresses and various types of head covering. Muslim women who wear hijab do not find it impractical or interfering with their activities in all levels and walks of life. Hijab is not merely a covering dress but more importantly, it is behavior, manners, speech and appearance in public. Dress is only one facet of the total being. The basic requirement of the Muslim woman's dress apply to the Muslim man's clothing with the difference being mainly in degree. Modesty requires that the area between the navel and the knee be covered in front of all people except the wife. The clothing of men should not be like the dress of women, nor should it be tight or provocative. A Muslim should dress to show his identity as a Muslim. Men are not allowed to wear gold or silk. However, both are allowed for women.

For both men and women, clothing requirements are not meant to be a restriction but rather a way in which society will function in a proper, Islamic manner.
 
Upvote 0

coastie

Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!
Apr 6, 2002
5,400
48
45
Central Valley of CA
Visit site
✟8,286.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Hmmm What was that thing about the eating of the apple being all eves fault?

Umm... Women sin and men sin. That story doesn't say anything about who is superior.

As for dressing modestly, I can't imagine why peopole would have a problem with that. However, like wise, we evil westrners are criticized for our women wearing bikinis. Not that my wife would wear one in front of anyone but me or to tan in by our pool.

The part about the woman covering her face seems over kill though. Why woudln't a woman want her face shown.

In business, if I'm making a deal with someone and I can't see their face, there is just something about that that would make it hard for me to trust them. i'd get a feeling like they were hiding something.

Is this ever a problem for Muslim women in the business world?
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by coastie

The part about the woman covering her face seems over kill though. Why woudln't a woman want her face shown.

The face is most beautiful innit?
A face attracts attention..
Isn't it the first thing you notice about a person?

Originally posted by coastie

In business, if I'm making a deal with someone and I can't see their face, there is just something about that that would make it hard for me to trust them. i'd get a feeling like they were hiding something.

Is this ever a problem for Muslim women in the business world?

u could see their eyes , if it were just niqab..
eyes reveal the most , if you pay attention.

I'm not a Muslim women in the bussiness world so i really can't answer that last question :)
 
Upvote 0

coastie

Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!
Apr 6, 2002
5,400
48
45
Central Valley of CA
Visit site
✟8,286.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
The face is most beautiful innit?
A face attracts attention..
Isn't it the first thing you notice about a person?

I think that a woman walking around under a cloak in the summer in a crowded market draws just a little more attention than the fact that she has a face. But maybe that's just me :)

u could see their eyes , if it were just niqab..
eyes reveal the most , if you pay attention.

"niqab"?

Eyes alone do not communicate or portray emotions as well as facial expressions and body language. I'm just trying to think from a woman's point of view here (which is not easy for a guy as manly as me ;)) but I don't think I would like my point accross or adequately communicate my emmotions due to a law that doesn't equate women to men.

Tell me... why don't men have to dress so conservatively and cover everything but their faces? If the same rules applied to men, I'm sure we woudln't even be ahving this conversation.

I'm not a Muslim women in the bussiness world so i really can't answer that last question

But you seem so knowledgable, you must know something about this... what about career oriented Muslim women in general, do they get the opportunities that Muslim men get in the Arab world?
 
Upvote 0

coastie

Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!
Apr 6, 2002
5,400
48
45
Central Valley of CA
Visit site
✟8,286.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Fear is their Religion Peggy Elliot speaks out against the Taliban's treatment of women in Afghanistan.

Imagine, if possible, a country where at least 97% of the female population suffers from major depression; where at least 86% of them display symptoms of significant anxiety and, the most horrifying, at least one-quarter of these women - nearly one-quarter of the entire female population - are seriously considering ending their misery by the means of suicide.

Afghanistan, a remote and treacherous land, has survived the pain and misery of war only to be taken hostage by the all-invasive control of the powerful Islamic faction, the Taliban, which now governs large sections of the country, including the capital city of Kabul. Though adjustment to the new religious order has been difficult for the entire population, it is the Afghan women who have been most brutalized by the Taliban's stranglehold.

Life in Afghanistan has always been difficult, but in recent years progress was being made in educating the population. Women held professional positions and made up a significant percentage of the work force, particularly in the government and health care fields. Families, devastated by the shattered Afghan economy, relied on the income of both husband and wife for survival.

However, the rise to power of the Taliban, a fanatical fundamentalist Moslem sect, and their harsh adherence to strict and often tyrannical religious covenants have rendered all Afghan women not only virtual prisoners in their homes, but nothing more than the meager possessions of men, whom by law they must obey and whose needs they must satisfy.

Consider, for example, you are a young wife and mother, intelligent and college educated. You worked for the government health care system and as a midwife you went into families' homes to help deliver their babies. You enjoyed your work and cared for the families you assisted. A daughter of Islam, you fulfilled your life through your dedication to your religion, your family and your work. Unfortunately, you live in Kabul, Afghanistan.

You know of other women in the world who live in progressive cultures, who have grown complacent to the existence of their own rights as women, and you realize it is difficult for an outsider to imagine the extent of degradation in which Afghan women are forced to live. You, an Islamic woman in Afghanistan, have no rights, you have no voice, you can not act in your own defence nor may you act to defend another. You may not teach, nor may your daughters go to school. You may not display pictures of women - not your mother, not your daughters - not even in your home.

The windows in your home are painted over so others do not have to look upon your face. You live in darkness, isolated from other women, dependent upon the males in the family for any food you are provided. Often there is no food at all. Having lost half their income because their wives are now forbidden to work, Afghan men can choose to feed their wives, or not; to clothe them, or not. Many, including your husband, do not.

If you must go outside your home, you must be completely draped, anonymous, invisible and under the complete control of your male authority, your "mahram" - this may be your husband, father, brother or another male family member.

Should you fall ill there is not a doctor who can treat you. Only men are now allowed to practice medicine and they are not permitted to treat women. The hospital in which women are admitted carries little in the way of medications. Afghanistan, in the throes of a desperate healthcare crisis, reserves what precious little aid is received for the men. Women die from illnesses easily treatable; die because they do not have access to the surgical procedures which would have saved them. Surgeons are men and they are forbidden to perform surgery on women. The clinics, which open their doors surreptitiously to women, do so at great risk.

For you, a woman who has no life, who is but dirt upon her dungeon floor, who sees no future worth the suffering, suicide holds out the promise of welcome release. And for an increasing number of Afghanistan's women it is the only avenue they feel offers escape from an impossible life. Yet when the decision is made, the suicide attempt is a difficult and torturous mission, as most suicides are committed by the ingestion of "caustic soda," the only poisonous material most women can readily obtain.

Three days it will take. Three days from ingesting the soda, which burns away your throat, before you die. Your children will watch you suffer, but nothing can be done. The only treatment available to save your life is at a hospital into which you, a woman, can not go. Still you will swallow the soda. And you will endure three more days of suffering, but then, at last, the suffering will end. To continue to breathe in the hell which is now Afghanistan for you, a woman, is impossible.

And so they die, these women, young and old. Their talent, intelligence, the very fibre of existence women bring to the pattern of all life is irretrievably lost from the world. There is no shrugging it off, no "life goes on." For without women, without the mothers, daughters, grandmothers, life does not, indeed, "go on."

Throughout mankind's history there have been those who have adopted the sinister creed of practicing fear and hatred by hiding their true selves within the sanctity of "religion." Safe behind their holy masks, these demons have enjoyed the freedom to terrorize without fear of reprisal; criminal behaviour in the name of religion is deemed necessary, even desirable, as it shores up particular religious beliefs.

But there exists no religion on the face of this earth, which condones slaughter, torture and the complete dissolution of human rights. However, cowards and bullies still conveniently hide behind these masks, knowing they act not truly within the laws of their religion, but by the power of their hatred.

Some day, some time, the horror that is today's Afghanistan will end as the last Afghan woman dies out. And Mohammed, despite his wisdom, can only watch in horror the evil being perpetrated in his name.

copyright © P.L. Elliot 1999

Pictures courtesy of RAWA

beating5.jpg


Here's the link
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by coastie


beating5.jpg


Here's the link

pshh , I didn't say everything every taliban dude did was correct..
but if what this mr taliban dude did , makes you think Islam is evil , then Christianity is Superly Majorly evil..
There are a hella lot of very very very bad Christians who commit the worst crimes but their religion never comes into it :rolleyes:
What was Hitler again? :p
 
Upvote 0
Originally posted by coastie


I think that a woman walking around under a cloak in the summer in a crowded market draws just a little more attention than the fact that she has a face. But maybe that's just me :)

Ya but when u see nothing , you won't stare..
and in a Muslim country no one would even bother to stare anyway.

Originally posted by coastie

"niqab"?

Niqab - Face cover..
Like in my Avatar.

Originally posted by coastie

Tell me... why don't men have to dress so conservatively and cover everything but their faces? If the same rules applied to men, I'm sure we woudln't even be ahving this conversation.

cause guys are nothing to look at :p
and women have more self control..
When did you last hear about a girl who raped a guy in the west or anywhere?


Originally posted by coastie

But you seem so knowledgable, you must know something about this... what about career oriented Muslim women in general, do they get the opportunities that Muslim men get in the Arab world?

Muslim women don't generally work..Unless they have to ofcourse cause they have no one to support them and stuff..
Thats how its supposed to be anyway :rolleyes:

I dunno about the arab world..but in America.. both Muslim working men and Muslim working women have problems..

I have heard about Muslim women who dont get a job because they wear hijab or niqab and
I have heard about Muslim men who don't get a job because they have big Osama style beards..and I have heard about Muslims who don't get jobs because they refuse to shake hands with people of the opposite gender..

Those Muslims have to decide what means more to them , Islam & morals or worldly matters & money.
Pleasing Allah or Pleasing the people around them.
 
Upvote 0