afganistan wemon

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by coastie
Hitler was not a Christian. he made up his own religion. You didn't answer any of my questions though.

I had legitimate questions.

I did I did

So what was his religion?
What did he call it?

 

[Kyle]

The Koran says what it says.  You can try and explain what is says off as something else, but it doesn't change the meaning.  You can even attack my character, or copy and paste long rationizations for what the Koran says.

I posted the exact verses as they appear in Islamic holy books. To say the verses were not the same is a lie.  You simply interpreted the verses to fit what you'd like them to say, and copied and pasted what others have interpreted.

Why not just read it for yourself and use your own mind to make up your own conclusions.  Same with the Bible.  Both the Koran and Bible are easy enough to do this with. 

Keep in mind, that Islamic nations interpret the Koran for their own needs differently.  It is rare that one Islamic nation agrees with another, but they all hold to the law that every native citizen is to worship Allah or some sort of sanctions will follow. 

As for women being able to choose rather to listen to her husband or not, the Koran is crystal clear in giving men the authority to beat their wives when they feel it is necessary.  Rather a person follows that Islamic law or not is up to them, sanctions vary in different Islamic government areas.

Hitler was not a Christian. There are religions out there that have
been erroneously claiming to be Christians, and torturing/murdering Christians/Jews/Muslims  [who refused to fall under the authority of an infallible Priest, receive a water baptism,  pray to an idol, and confess sins to Priests only] for the last 1800 years.

When a religion takes over a government and forces others to adhere to its all or any of its religious laws concering salvation, then we do not have free choice. We have men playing god, and writing "holy"  books for whatever they desire.


Muslimah, have you ever tried reading the entire Bible? 

"For all have sinned and fell short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23).

 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. (Luke 13:3).

"For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son.  For whosoever believes in Him will not parish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

"that if you  with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your honest mind that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;" (Romans 10:9)

If you are saved only through Allah, then why not try repenting of your sins and putting your honest belief in Jesus Christ as Lord?  Try saying it outloud once and really believe it. 

How do you feel?  If you joke about it, then you did not place an honest belief in Christ. 

Then read the Bible, [a book that no one has ever proved false], a book that God commands us to read after coming to Christ and see what happens.  The Bible tells us His hidden and Living Word will begin to uncover for us.  This has been True for me, and for hundreds of others I've met.  I have security and happiness through Christ no matter what comes my way.

If I am not telling the Truth, then how do you know?  Why not give it a shot if you really know that you're saved? 

After being fed up with Americans who professed Christianity but did not show it in their lives, I tried practicing Islam, prayed in Mosques, and read the Koran and other Islamic holy books several times.  It all left me empty, and feeling that I would never live up to the man-made laws of Islam.   

I have found that although there are many people in the world that claim to be Christians, but really do not understand what it means to be a Christians, are everywhere.  However, there are also many Good Christians that know their Bibles, and Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

I pray that you will give an honest attempt at turning your life over to Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.  Only through Christ can you be forgiven, and live up under His perfect law.  He died on the cross so we could be forgiven through Him. 

But it is your freedom to do so or not.  Nowhere in the world is anyone forcing another to become a True Christian. 

I appreciate this discussion, you write well, I will continue to read every word you post, and will pray for you to have a Great day!  By the way, I have many friends and family that are Muslim, hope you will consider me as a friend now that we have shared very important words with one another, no matter what respectful disagreements may arise.  I am looking forward to continuing this discussion here.

 

[coastie]

So what was his religion?
What did he call it?

Do you have any idea how many times I've heard this same ignorant argument? Give me a break. I can call myself a Navy SEAL... does that make me one?

With all due respect... I suggest you drop this argument before you make yourself look foolish.

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by coastie


Do you have any idea how many times I've heard this same ignorant argument? Give me a break. I can call myself a Navy SEAL... does that make me one?

With all due respect... I suggest you drop this argument before you make yourself look foolish.

I won't look foolish.
If your gonna make out that the Taliban beating some women makes Islam evil then
I'll imply the same about the many freaky Christians who pretend to be ever so pious but are doing evil things which you couldn't even imagine

Why dont you drop the taliban thing ?

 

[coastie]

Muslim women don't generally work..Unless they have to ofcourse cause they have no one to support them and stuff..
Thats how its supposed to be anyway

This I understand but then I also don't.

I never saw anywhere in the Bible where it is said that a woman must stay in the home and cook and clean and pine away for her husband.

I saw where the Bible placed value on nurturing and spiritual leadership in the family, but as long as the little one's of the family are kept first priority by both Mom and Dad then there is no reason the woman can't set out and accomplish goals.

No wonder so many women in arab countries are so depressed. i would be too if I knew that I would have to spend the rest of my life cooking and cleaning.

While motherhod is no doubt a huge sense of accomplishment, some women set different goals, and I do not see how that is wrong as long as their lives remain spirit filled.

 

[Muslimah]

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by Kyle
The Koran says what it says.  You can try and explain what is says off as something else, but it doesn't change the meaning.  You can even attack my character, or copy and paste long rationizations for what the Koran says.

I posted the exact verses as they appear in Islamic holy books. To say the verses were not the same is a lie.  You simply interpreted the verses to fit what you'd like them to say, and copied and pasted what others have interpreted.

I took the ayats from a site that provides the entire interpretation of the Quran in english..Interpretation because you can't exactly translate the Quran into english from arabic and keep every word of Allah the same.

These interpretations were done by a Muslim Scholars , not someone looking to make Islam out as some wife beating sexist dirty religion.
You can check them with other interpretations of the Quran in english done by Muslim Scholars and you won't find much difference.

Which Islamic holy books do you think you got your made up ayat from?
Who wrote these supposedly Holy books?

Originally posted by Kyle

Why not just read it_for yourself and use your own mind_to make up your own conclusions.__Same_with the_Bible._ Both the Koran and Bible are easy enough to do_this with._

To read the exact Quran myself , I'd need to know Arabic which i dont, So i can only read the interpretations into english from Muslim Scholars
Which i have done & none of them are anything like what you claim is the true meaning..

 

[coastie]

I won't look foolish.
If your gonna make out that the Taliban beating some women makes Islam evil then
I'll imply the same about the many freaky Christians who pretend to be ever so pious but are doing evil things which you couldn't even imagine

Ok, the difference between your argument and mine is that I never said that Muslims were like the Taliban. The article never says that either. The article is speaking specifically of the Taliban. Your assertion was that Hitler and I share a religion which is completely ludicrous.

I just found the article looking while looking for photo examples of a Niqab and I ran accross the article and found it interesting and completely relevant to the conversation.

It wasn't meant as a poke at your pride. I by no means want to interfere with your goal to convert us all or kill us. That would be so un-PC of me

footnote: that was sarcasm, I know that you don't want to kill me and my Christian puppy

 

[Kyle]

Many women in America that claim to be Christian are depressed today, because they desire nothing but wealth in their lives.

I have seen many Muslim women in Islamic nations that were forced by the threat of death to adhere to the Muslim law. I even talked to some that detested the religious law they were forced under. And, they were very very poor with very little money. However, these same women were far less depressed than many people in other nations I've come across that claim to be Christians, who never open their Bibles outside of Sunday morning and strive to pile up as much wealth on top of wealth as possible.

And, I believe there is nothing wrong with a lifetime of cooking and cleaning for a man or woman. My wife is more busy than I this month working for the Lord, and I am doing all of the cooking and cleaning. The Bible says nothing for or against a lifetime of cooking and cleaning for any person, only that we do all we do for the Lord in Joy for His will.

 

[coastie]

Very true, but love for money and success is different from setting and attaining goals. Women have just as much right to enjoy their lives as men do. If a career is something that they look forward to, it seems wrather cruel to not allow them to go for it.

My wife works and cooks and cleans because we share those duties (because Lord knows I don't make a sustainable amount of money working for the government).

My wife also wants to be a full time mom in the future. I have no problem with any of her decisions and I will be equaly supportive no matter what she does.

 

[Kyle]

I agree coastie, I see what you mean- and btw I really like your signature, Good friend and fellow fisherman.

Muslimah, my Koran verses came from Muslim religious authority. They came from the same book several Islamic governments use as English translations. What the Koran says itself isn't hard to understand. What another adds to it and claims what they write is holy, is not what the original author of the Koran intended.

Fair enough if you disagree that the Koran does not say it's ok for a man to take 4 wives, and assault her.

B4 I continue on with you, did you attempt what I asked? And are we not friends?

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by coastie


This I understand but then I also don't.

I never saw anywhere in the Bible where it is said that a woman must stay in the home and cook and clean and pine away for her husband.

I saw where the Bible placed value on nurturing and spiritual leadership in the family, but as long as the little one's of the family are kept first priority by both Mom and Dad then there is no reason the woman can't set out and accomplish goals.

While motherhod is no doubt a huge sense of accomplishment, some women set different goals, and I do not see how that is wrong as long as their lives remain spirit filled.

In Islam , Men and Women have different roles.
The man is the protector and provider for his wife and family.
The man goes out and works cause men are strong and they can work all the time, so its their job.
Men can not do what the women can do , he can't have children , So its not for him to stay home and have the wifes role.

Women stay at home and raise the family , they clean and cook but that doesn't mean they sit in their house all day cooking and cleaning and they can never do anything else.
Bringing up children and making them into good people is more rewarding than anything else. In Islam a child is supposed to love his mother 3 times more than his father

If you look at places like America so many kids are put in day care all day and day care raises them.. then they get sent to school and then after school care and tv raises them..I don't see the point in having kids if your gonna let school and day care and tv raise them & you see them on the week end or for 3 hours at the end of the day..no wonder they turn out fat and end up on Jerry Springer

In Islam a women cannot complete her religion without a man.. and a man cannot complete his religion with out a women.
They have different roles , but they are equal , one is not better than the other because of what they are , in the sight of Allah what makes you better than another , is piety , not ur gender.

Originally posted by coastie


No wonder so many women in arab countries are so depressed. i would be too if I knew that I would have to spend the rest of my life cooking and cleaning.

Whoo said they were depressed?

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by coastie


I just found the article looking while looking for photo examples of a Niqab and I ran accross the article and found it interesting and completely relevant to the conversation.

It wasn't meant as a poke at your pride. I by no means want to interfere with your goal to convert us all or kill us. That would be so un-PC of me

footnote: that was sarcasm, I know that you don't want to kill me and my Christian puppy

http://www.muhajabah.com/niqab-photo.htm
&
http://www.geocities.com/iamnoora2002/niqaab.html

Muslimahs in Niqab

I'm not trying to convert you by the way

 

[coastie]

I'm not trying to convert you by the way

I believe you have a duty to doncha?

I'll respond to the rest of the jibba jabba later... I get to go home now.

God Bless

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by Kyle

Muslimah, my Koran verses came from Muslim religious authority. They came from the same book several Islamic governments use as English translations. What the Koran says itself isn't hard to understand. What another adds to it and claims what they write is holy, is not what the original author of the Koran intended.

oks , I did my bit , I posted what was correct , You can believe what you like.

Originally posted by Kyle

Fair enough if you disagree that the Koran does not say it's ok for a man to take 4 wives, and assault her.

He can have 4 wives , if he treats them equally

Quran says..

Sura 4 - An-Nisa (The Women) - Ayat 3 - English (Yusuf Ali):
4:3 If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

Originally posted by Kyle

B4 I continue on with you, did you attempt what I asked? And are we not friends?

What putting my faith in Isa(Jesus) as Lord?
No way would I ever do that , I would happily die or be killed before I commited such a sin.
Isa was just a Prophet like Moses and like Muhammed.
Or did you mean reading the Bible?
I read the Bible in Christian studies class in school as a kid

Friends sure.

 

[KeepTheFaith15]

well i dont know you guys have been discussing this alot, and my look on the womans job is it's very respectable to me and i look up to a woman who wants to be a full time stay at home mom but when i get married and have a kid i dont want to be one, i want to work out in the real world and get the money to support my baby and if thats a problem if i put my child in daycare well thats your opinion/ some gotta do what they gotta do. I also think wemon can do alot of things men can, and your right guys cant have baby,thank the lord because im sure guys would whine more then us wemon...heehee this is off the topic but oh well this is my thread.

 

[Kyle]

Thanks Muslimah for answering my questions. Thank you also for your posts, they were informative to me, although I did not agree with most of them.

Another question or two if you don't mind: What would happen to you if you simply, for 1 minute, honestly said something like,

"Ok, if You are God, Jesus, than really quickly I will try believing in You. Please forgive me for all of my sins, and I put my Trust in You as Lord of all. Please show me in my life if You are the only God."

What would happen if you said "Jesus Is Lord" outloud?

I know you believe it's a sin, but I have tried out the religion of Islam. Are you afraid to try something so simple out for even 1 minute?

 

[Muslimah]

Originally posted by Kyle
Thanks Muslimah for answering my questions. Thank you also for your posts, they were informative to me, although I did not agree with most of them.

Another question or two if you don't mind: What would happen to you if you simply, for 1 minute, honestly said something like,

"Ok, if You are God, Jesus, than really quickly I will try believing in You. Please forgive me for all of my sins, and I put my Trust in You as Lord of all. Please show me in my life if You are the only God."

What would happen if you said "Jesus Is Lord" outloud?

I know you believe it's a sin, but I have tried out the religion of Islam. Are you afraid to try something so simple out for even 1 minute?

Its an unforgivable sin and i dont believe it anyway.
When i knew no god , i asked to be guided and i was guided to Islam.
La Ilaha Illallah Muhammadur Rasoolullah

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Muslimah-

Please read and respond:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19437

 

[Kyle]

[[Its an unforgivable sin and i dont believe it anyway.]]

So since I have done this, there is no hope for me? Once you sin, you're never forgiven? I am dammed forever by Allah?

[[When i knew no god , i asked to be guided and i was guided to Islam.]]

How do you know for sure God guided you?