Affirmative Action

[lawtonfogle]

From:Affirmative action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some opponents say affirmative action devalues the accomplishments of people who are chosen because of the social group to which they belong rather than their qualifications.[3] Opponents also contend that affirmative action devalues the accomplishments of all those who belong to groups it is intended to help, therefore making affirmative action counterproductive.[4]
Opponents[5] further claim that affirmative action has undesirable side-effects in addition to failing to achieve its goals. They argue that it hinders reconciliation, replaces old wrongs with new wrongs, undermines the achievements of minorities, and encourages groups to identify themselves as disadvantaged, even if they are not. It may increase racial tension and benefit the more privileged people within minority groups at the expense of the least fortunate within majority groups (such as lower-class whites).[6]
Conservative commentator Dr. Thomas Sowell identified some negative results of race-based affirmative action in his book, Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study [7]. Sowell writes that affirmative action policies encourage non-preferred groups to designate themselves as members of preferred groups (i.e., primary beneficiaries of affirmative action) to take advantage of group preference policies; that they tend to benefit primarily the most fortunate among the preferred group (e.g., upper and middle class blacks), often to the detriment of the least fortunate among the non-preferred groups (e.g., poor whites or Asians); that they reduce the incentives of both the preferred and non-preferred to perform at their best — the former because doing so is unnecessary and the latter because it can prove futile — thereby resulting in net losses for society as a whole; and that they increase animosity toward preferred groups.

So, do you agree or disagree with any points made within?

Personally, I advocate for aid based upon need, not based upon race. While there is some correlation between race (ethnic group) and need (or starting out at a disadvantage), there is a stronger one between class and need. As such, while I am not against the ideals of affirmative action, I am against how it is currently done.

 

[Nooj]

Personally, I advocate for aid based upon need, not based upon race. While there is some correlation between race (ethnic group) and need (or starting out at a disadvantage), there is a stronger one between class and need. As such, while I am not against the ideals of affirmative action, I am against how it is currently done.

I can't think of anything more to say than that I agree with all your points.

 

[flicka]

I feel about the same as you. While I believe there was a time were we needed to legally work around rampant discrimination, it's time to rethink and rework how we apply it.

 

[mpok1519]

the idea behind AA is good, but how its carried out is immensely flawed.

 

[sidnee]

I agree. The idea is wonderful. Its current use is insanity.
Aid should always be given based on need and not on any other dynamic factor.

 

[allhart]

I remember my buddy Graduating from a four year community college. Trying to become a correctional officer in Ca. He couldn't seem to get hired on any where. Affirmative action called Prop 209 was in effect. The last straw that broke the camels back with him was when he went to L.A and applied.
800 people applied and he past their test with highest 10%. After it was all said and done. They announced out loud in front of auditorium like atmosphere. If you are white c occasion male you can leave. He left all right, to Az Which hired him and is and was a right to work state......Some of those people hired here on prop 209 didn't even make the grade of 70%. People should be hired on a education merit and social behavior, however; we as a nation have out source all our industrial or blue collar work and are making for a class war far issue in the USA. Trying to make us in to a service country and not all people like office work, also not referencing anything on product shipped to us. With no concern for environmental regulation standard as we apply in our nation corporations or child/sweat shop labor
It effected me personally as well, through him. Like I said I grow up with him. Since we were about 3-5 years old. We visit and call all the time,but I lost my best friend and his family connection with mine.

 

[Braunwyn]

I remember my buddy Graduating from a four year community college.

I don't think there's any such thing. Although, it may have taken him 4 years to complete his 2 year degree (associates).

Trying to become a correctional officer in Ca. He couldn't seem to get hired on any where. Affirmative action called Prop 209 was in effect. The last straw that broke the camels back with him was when he went to L.A and applied.
800 people applied and he past their test with highest 10%. After it was all said and done. They announced out loud in front of auditorium like atmosphere. If you are white c occasion male you can leave. He left all right, to Az Which hired him and is and was a right to work state......Some of those people hired here on prop 209 didn't even make the grade of 70%. People should be hired on a education merit and social behavior, however; we as a nation have out source all our industrial or blue collar work and are making for a class war far issue in the USA. Trying to make us in to a service country and not all people like office work, also not referencing anything on product shipped to us. With no concern for environmental regulation standard as we apply in our nation corporations or child/sweat shop labor
It effected me personally as well, through him. Like I said I grow up with him. Since we were about 3-5 years old. We visit and call all the time,but I lost my best friend and his family connection with mine.

I do agree IRT our consumerism. Although, given the internet, there is quite a bit of information our there from advocacy groups.

 

[allhart]

I don't think there's any such thing. Although, it may have taken him 4 years to complete his 2 year degree (associates).


I do agree IRT our consumerism. Although, given the internet, there is quite a bit of information our there from advocacy groups.

Working and going to school Some take longer than other as long as they get it done and retain it. Plus he had to be physically or train for the job. There is a academy or boot came with requirements. Some of us were not computer literate.....

 

[allhart]

why and how do people get so critical of everything?
They are finding, also Geniuses take longer to develop, but in the end get more. That's why like the movie "Good Will Hunting"

 

[MountainCappuccino]

It's not just based on race; it applies to gender too.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

From:Affirmative action - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





So, do you agree or disagree with any points made within?

Personally, I advocate for aid based upon need, not based upon race. While there is some correlation between race (ethnic group) and need (or starting out at a disadvantage), there is a stronger one between class and need. As such, while I am not against the ideals of affirmative action, I am against how it is currently done.

A good amount of the black population live in unfortunate conditions with allot of family abuse and mistreatment. However I think part of it is related to ancestry and genetic make up. We can see this in comparison to different countries. For instance Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation and parts still don't even have electricity and the value of life is cheap. And I think this ancestry reflects back in todays minority slums and their bad conditions.

 

[Kharak]

A good amount of the black population live in unfortunate conditions with allot of family abuse and mistreatment. However I think part of it is related to ancestry and genetic make up. We can see this in comparison to different countries. For instance Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation and parts still don't even have electricity and the value of life is cheap. And I think this ancestry reflects back in todays minority slums and their bad conditions.

That's so laughable I almost wet myself giggling.

I'm going to pretend that you think that you even believe that for a moment (ignoring all African cultures, the Malinese Kingdom, the Maghreb peoples, etc) and readily point out that there is no genetic basis for the division of humanity as races. It's a cultural concept, nothing more. Now if you're going to claim all Africans are black and White people built the pyramids, I will have to seriously ask how the zombie of Khufu feels about that.

Now as I return to laughing, why don't Western cultures go back to mass rape and pillaging like our ancestors? Who wants to sack Jerusalem with me, eh?

 

[MountainCappuccino]

A good amount of the black population live in unfortunate conditions with allot of family abuse and mistreatment. However I think part of it is related to ancestry and genetic make up. We can see this in comparison to different countries. For instance Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation and parts still don't even have electricity and the value of life is cheap. And I think this ancestry reflects back in todays minority slums and their bad conditions.

Try European colonialism and Jim crow.
Next.

 

[Nooj]

A good amount of the black population live in unfortunate conditions with allot of family abuse and mistreatment. However I think part of it is related to ancestry and genetic make up. We can see this in comparison to different countries. For instance Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation and parts still don't even have electricity and the value of life is cheap. And I think this ancestry reflects back in todays minority slums and their bad conditions.

Every post you make justifies my very unfavourable opinions of you. Genetics has nothing to do with the present condition of Africa. In fact, a large part of the blame lies with the West and our dividing up the continent along arbitrary tribal and ethnic lines.

 

[PassionFruit]

Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation

Africa is a continent, not a country.

Also, there are African nations who actually aren't poor. Botswana, Cameroon, Cote d'Ivoire , just to name several.

 

[Braunwyn]

Africa is a continent, not a country.

Also, there are African nations who actually aren't poor. Botswana, Cameroon, Cote d'Ivoire , just to name several.

Even if Africa was a country, his statement still wouldn't make sense. Of course, to witness a statement claiming genetic disadvantage of another with such a steep display of one's own inferior intellect is almost amusing. Not quite though, it's wretched.

 

[PassionFruit]

Even if Africa was a country, his statement still wouldn't make sense. Of course, to witness a statement claiming genetic disadvantage of another with such a steep display of one's own inferior intellect is almost amusing. Not quite though, it's wretched.

Don't understand why some people insist on showing their lack of knoweldge. Yeah, it's amusing for awhile, then afterwhile it's just sad.

On the note of Affirmative Action, people have this misconception that it was only mean for African Americans, but really it is supposed to include people are at a disadvantage, that includes other minorities as well women, or people who lack class privilege. Also, people have this misconception that the purpose of AA is to hire minorities just to have a certain number of them around.

It bothers me a lot, because I'm going to pursue my MA soon and people are probably going think that I got into grad school, not because of my intellect but because I'm therefore it had to be because of AA.

 

[Braunwyn]

Don't understand why some people insist on showing their lack of knoweldge. Yeah, it's amusing for awhile, then afterwhile it's just sad.

Clearly, they don't know any better, but the lack of humility is mind boggling.

On the note of Affirmative Action, people have this misconception that it was only mean for African Americans, but really it is supposed to include people are at a disadvantage, that includes other minorities as well women, or people who lack class privilege. Also, people have this misconception that the purpose of AA is to hire minorities just to have a certain number of them around.

It bothers me a lot, because I'm going to pursue my MA soon and people are probably going think that I got into grad school, not because of my intellect but because I'm therefore it had to be because of AA.

Some people may think that, but given the type of people who do, as advertised on this forum, hopefully their opinions will hold little weight where it matters...like reality.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Even if Africa was a country, his statement still wouldn't make sense. Of course, to witness a statement claiming genetic disadvantage of another with such a steep display of one's own inferior intellect is almost amusing. Not quite though, it's wretched.

lol. Are we resorting to personal insults again because you have no understanding what I'm saying? By the way, "country" has a large amount of definitions that apply to the word..I know Africa as a whole is a continent.

I'm going to pretend that you think that you even believe that for a moment (ignoring all African cultures, the Malinese Kingdom, the Maghreb peoples, etc) and readily point out that there is no genetic basis for the division of humanity as races. It's a cultural concept, nothing more

If you honestly think there is no genetic difference between certain races then you really need to read some science. You see, there is a thing called an "Equator". I suggest you read its relation to race and genetic. There is also a thing called "micro-evolution". Where the body of the human being physically adjusts to the current conditions of the land, the weather, culture, and lifestyle. A white person will burn horribly if they lived in the same conditions as someone in Africa. Their skin would blister and probably kill them. So there is obvious differences in the genetic make up of different races.

Africa, considering its poor and barbaric conditions with one of the highest murder rates in the world(Rwanda, Lesotho, Swaziland, etc) obviously is gonna have an effect on the evolution of its inhabitants. It is wired into their micro-evolution. Blaming the problem on America is ridiculous. The slavery issue was a 50/50 deal considering Africa sold its own people out to slavery in the first place.


The equator , for some reason, has allot to do with differences. For some reason, countries closer to the equator have higher murder rates and worse living conditions. Other high murder rates include, Jamaica, Columbia, Honduras, el Salvador. All of which are smack right on the equator. Take a look at New Guinea. Another country right on the equator. No electricity and no progress. Cannibalism still goes on there. Why? Because its wired into their own genetic make up and blood line that they have experienced for thousands of years. That is why minoritys have problems today in our slums and cities, because its wired into their genetic evolution of their ancestors.

 

[Nooj]

Why? Because its wired into their own genetic make up and blood line that they have experienced for thousands of years.

I call troll.

You really should learn something of science. Cultural and social factors like those you've mentioned cannot be inherited, because they have no genetic basis.