Affirmative Action

[praying]

A good amount of the black population live in unfortunate conditions with allot of family abuse and mistreatment. However I think part of it is related to ancestry and genetic make up. We can see this in comparison to different countries. For instance Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation and parts still don't even have electricity and the value of life is cheap. And I think this ancestry reflects back in todays minority slums and their bad conditions.

Did I say

 

[praying]

What I was suggesting was genetic differences based on things like the equator and the culture of the people......

That has got to be on eof the stupidest things I have ever seen posted on this forum. :o

 

[Braunwyn]

That has got to be on eof the stupidest things I have ever seen posted on this forum. :o

Ya can't make this stuff up. A number of posts in this thread are candidates for FSTDT.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I think affirmative action is a fairly crude tool for addressing the injustices in our societies, but if someone can think of a better idea then let's hear it. Had our societies never severely persecuted ethnic minorities, women and gays then we wouldn't have the problem of how to redress it. We're talking about centuries of great injustice, that's not something a community gets over straight away.

 

[Joachim]

Racial based affirmative action. Wrong idea and immoral. Class based affirmative action. The right idea and should have been done already. A very simple cut and dried issue.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Don't understand why some people insist on showing their lack of knoweldge. Yeah, it's amusing for awhile, then afterwhile it's just sad.

On the note of Affirmative Action, people have this misconception that it was only mean for African Americans, but really it is supposed to include people are at a disadvantage, that includes other minorities as well women, or people who lack class privilege. Also, people have this misconception that the purpose of AA is to hire minorities just to have a certain number of them around.

It bothers me a lot, because I'm going to pursue my MA soon and people are probably going think that I got into grad school, not because of my intellect but because I'm therefore it had to be because of AA.

I know Affirmative Action is mean to help those who need it. But my objection is to stop using a criteria which is somewhat correlated with need (race, sex, ect.) with ones which are strongly correlated with need (class). And we can't try to correct at college. By college, those at a disadvantage will be so far behind that, on average, getting more of them into college will not help them. Even if they get into college easier, they will not be prepared for it. We need to fix the problem in the lower grade school.

 

[b&wpac4]

A good amount of the black population live in unfortunate conditions with allot of family abuse and mistreatment. However I think part of it is related to ancestry and genetic make up. We can see this in comparison to different countries. For instance Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation and parts still don't even have electricity and the value of life is cheap. And I think this ancestry reflects back in todays minority slums and their bad conditions.

If only a bunch of people that thought just like you could get together and form a group and then ride around dressed up like you were a ghost on Halloween.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm white, so any feelings I have about AA really don't count. It's never gotten me a job, only kept me from a scholarship.

My SIL, on the other hand, hates it. She's black, so I respect her opinion. She says that AA has caused many people to doubt her abilities or her experience, chalking them up to AA, even sometimes to her face. A coworker once told her, verbatim:

"You guys wanted equality, but now you want jobs based on the fact that you're black. Couldja make up your mind already?"

I think the principle behind it was laudable, but the way it was carried out was quite disastrous.

 

[praying]

I'm white, so any feelings I have about AA really don't count.

Why not?

It's never gotten me a job,

White females have been one of the biggest benefactors of AA since its inception.

 

[Polycarp1]

I rather like how New York State handles AA -- a certain percentage of any state contract is supposed to be spent at minority-owned businesses and another at women-owne4d businesses, or a waiver requested after bona fide effort to do so. When we were working on water and sewer system projects, it was quite easy to ensure that post-construction landscaping work was given to a woman-owned landscaping business. We had one site where some subcontracting went to a Native American-owned specialty contractor (electrical if I remember right). This assured that women- and minority-owned businesses got their fair share of the pie, without an old-boys-network mentality freezing them out, without playing quota games. (As teh award recipient, the municipalities we worked with were responsible for ensuring that the money was paid out fairly, and would get audited at the end of the project, but were free to award and withhold contracts if they based doing so on fair criteria.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Why not?

Because I've never been persecuted or enslaved simply because of the color of my skin. I've never faced poor economic circumstances because I was born black. I know that there are those who have, and I'm still on the fence as to whether or not these types of people (whether black or white) benefit from AA.

White females have been one of the biggest benefactors of AA since its inception.

Not me. And don't get me wrong, I am not bitter or anything like that about it. I see people like my SIL who have people constantly questioning her abilities simply because she's a darker shade than they are and I'm happy that AA hasn't gotten me anywhere.

But I am curious - do you have a link for stats for that? I'm actually doing a report on gender issues and I think these types of numbers could help me.

 

[praying]

Because I've never been persecuted or enslaved simply because of the color of my skin. I've never faced poor economic circumstances because I was born black. I know that there are those who have, and I'm still on the fence as to whether or not these types of people (whether black or white) benefit from AA.

This is such a misconception about AA. It is not, nor has it ever been exclusively for African Americans, yes racial discrimination was the impetus, if you will, for AA but it was never designed to benefit only African Americans. It was designed to benefit all of those who have been historically discriminated against in the labor market.

A. OFCCP Mission Description
The Department of Labor's Employment Standards Administration's Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) enforces the Executive Order 11246, as amended; Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended and the affirmative action provisions (Section 4212) of the Vietnam Era Veterans' Readjustment Assistance Act, as amended. Taken together, these laws ban discrimination and require Federal contractors and subcontractors to take affirmative action to ensure that all individuals have an equal opportunity for employment, without regard to race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability or status as a Vietnam era or special disabled veteran.
o OFCCP’s jurisdiction covers approximately 26 million or nearly 22% of the total civilian workforce (92,500 non-construction establishments and 100,000 construction establishments). The Federal Government awarded more than $179 billion tax-payer dollars in prime contracts in Fiscal Year 1995.
o OFCCP requires a contractor, as a condition of having a federal contract, to engage in a self-analysis for the purpose of discovering any barriers to equal employment opportunity. No other Government agency conducts comparable systemic reviews of employers’ employment practices to ferret out discrimination. OFCCP also investigates complaints of discrimination. In Fiscal Year 1999, OFCCP conducted 3,833 compliance reviews. Moreover, OFCCP programs prevent discrimination. Further information about the OFCCP programs may be obtained from the Internet.

Not me. And don't get me wrong, I am not bitter or anything like that about it. I see people like my SIL who have people constantly questioning her abilities simply because she's a darker shade than they are and I'm happy that AA hasn't gotten me anywhere.

People do this for one or several reasons, the most common being ignorance of how AA works and/or prejudice.

But I am curious - do you have a link for stats for that? I'm actually doing a report on gender issues and I think these types of numbers could help me.

Sorry I don’t but I am sure you can find it if you Google.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What you are positing in this thread is absolutely ignorant and stupid and flies in the face of all scientific evidence. Culture and the equator...pfft. Whites will burn and their skin will blister if they lived in Africa; okay, then can you explain the thousands of whites who have lived and do live there? What, they use SPF 300?

Wait, are you really suggesting that the distribution of human skin tone:

Is purely incidental?

 

[roflcopter101]

Wait, are you really suggesting that the distribution of human skin tone:

Is purely incidental?

I'd like to have blue skin. Does anyone in Greenland right now have blue skin?

Or is that just the result of hypothermia? Hm...

 

[Polycarp1]

Wait, are you really suggesting that the distribution of human skin tone:

Is purely incidental?

No, but this has little to do with "race" in the popular mindset. Human skin tone seems to be lighter the farther away from the equator one gets, and darker the closer to it -- whether you are talking the "yellow" East Asians, the "white" Indo-Europeans, the "black" sub-Saharan Africans, or the "red" Native Americans (each of which is made up of numerous micro-ethnic groups with distinct body forms including skin tone. The reasons behind this seem to center in a balance between Vitamin D production (the paler skin the better, and less available from diet in cool-weather areas) and protection from sunburn and skin cancer (for which the darker skin the better).

Malays and Thai are significantly darker than North Chinese and Mongols. Swedes are fairer than South Italians and Greeks, on average, and they in turn than Levantine people ("Arabs" in the broad and incorrect sense), and they in turn than peoples of India -- which has a clear north-to-south skin-tone differentiation in itself. And Athabaskans and Algonkians are lighter than Nahuatl and Mayans who are in turn lighter than the typical Amazon valley ethnic groups. (It's not quite as evident in Africa, where a latitudinally smaller area and more recent migrations masks the original skin-tone map, but it can be detected even there.)

In all cases, year-round warm weather and near-overhead sun plus a high-in-Vitamin-D ecosystem militates for darker skin, while colder/more variable climate, sun at what is at best a fairly low angle, and an ecosystem with less Vitamin D sources militates for fairer skin.

 

[praying]

Wait, are you really suggesting that the distribution of human skin tone:

Is purely incidental?

No and that isn't what he was suggesting either, reading is fundamental.

 

[Kharak]

I'd like to have blue skin. Does anyone in Greenland right now have blue skin?

Or is that just the result of hypothermia? Hm...

Where do you think the Blue Man Group came from?

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Wait, are you really suggesting that the distribution of human skin tone:

Is purely incidental?

Of course not! lol..Be careful with posting something factual like this, you might get called a bigot or racist for that... the equator and the position of demographics have nothing to do with skin tone. Apparently according to 'praying' skin tone comes from little magical fairies..

No... it can't be from the body adjusting to the sun and heat in order to prevent skin damage and skin cancer. Better not tell them that, they might actually learn something..

No and that isn't what he was suggesting either, reading is fundamental.

Oh really? lol..So all my posts talking about skin tone and make-up relating with the equator just phased you over your head?? lol. I understand it takes hard work to call people bigots all the time and actively ignore things, but the problem is you tend to miss what the person is actually trying to say.

Malays and Thai are significantly darker than North Chinese and Mongols

uh, maybe because Thailand is further south and closer to the equator than China and Mongolia?? Race is determined by many factors such a hereditary,forensic anthropology, and craniology, as well as history and culture included.

One part to a biological profile is a person's racial/ancestral affinity.

Caucasians generally have no prognathism; a notable size prominence of the cranium and forehead region; a narrow, tear-shaped nasal cavity; a "silled" nasal aperture; tower-shaped nasal bones; a triangular-shaped palate; and an angular and sloping eye orbit shape. Blacks typically have a broad and round nasal cavity; no dam or nasal sill; Quonset hut-shaped nasal bones; notable facial projection in the jaw and mouth area (prognathism); a rectangular-shaped palate; and a square or rectangular eye orbit shape. Asians are often characterized by relatively no prognathism; no nasal sill or dam; an oval-shaped nasal cavity; tent-shaped nasal bones; a horseshoe-shaped palate; and a rounded and non-sloping eye orbit shape

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_anthropology

Because I've never been persecuted or enslaved simply because of the color of my skin. I've never faced poor economic circumstances because I was born black. I know that there are those who have, and I'm still on the fence as to whether or not these types of people (whether black or white) benefit from AA.

I personally think AA is an injustice to the hard working class. Considering their hard earned money is being funneled into this. I know so many people who had trouble getting college loans because of AA. If we honestly owe people because of the past, then everyone needs to be owed back something because slavery existed long LONG before the 18th century.

 

[Braunwyn]

I personally think AA is an injustice to the hard working class. Considering their hard earned money is being funneled into this. I know so many people who had trouble getting college loans because of AA. If we honestly owe people because of the past, then everyone needs to be owed back something because slavery existed long LONG before the 18th century.

I don't believe that for one second. If you're going to make such a claim, then provide the evidence.

 

[praying]

Apparently according to 'praying' skin tone comes from little magical fairies..

I never discussed skin tone.

Oh really? lol..So all my posts talking about skin tone and make-up relating with the equator just phased you over your head?? lol. I understand it takes hard work to call people bigots all the time and actively ignore things, but the problem is you tend to miss what the person is actually trying to say.

All what posts talking about skin tone, you had one post that discussed skin tone, the rest of the trash you are trying to spread was sociological horse hockey that isn't rooted in any knowledge at all.

A good amount of the black population live in unfortunate conditions with allot of family abuse and mistreatment. However I think part of it is related to ancestry and genetic make up. We can see this in comparison to different countries. For instance Africa is one of the poorest countries in the nation and parts still don't even have electricity and the value of life is cheap. And I think this ancestry reflects back in todays minority slums and their bad conditions.

lol. Are we resorting to personal insults again because you have no understanding what I'm saying? By the way, "country" has a large amount of definitions that apply to the word..I know Africa as a whole is a continent.





If you honestly think there is no genetic difference between certain races then you really need to read some science. You see, there is a thing called an "Equator". I suggest you read its relation to race and genetic. There is also a thing called "micro-evolution". Where the body of the human being physically adjusts to the current conditions of the land, the weather, culture, and lifestyle. A white person will burn horribly if they lived in the same conditions as someone in Africa. Their skin would blister and probably kill them. So there is obvious differences in the genetic make up of different races.

Africa, considering its poor and barbaric conditions with one of the highest murder rates in the world(Rwanda, Lesotho, Swaziland, etc) obviously is gonna have an effect on the evolution of its inhabitants. It is wired into their micro-evolution. Blaming the problem on America is ridiculous. The slavery issue was a 50/50 deal considering Africa sold its own people out to slavery in the first place.


The equator , for some reason, has allot to do with differences. For some reason, countries closer to the equator have higher murder rates and worse living conditions. Other high murder rates include, Jamaica, Columbia, Honduras, el Salvador. All of which are smack right on the equator. Take a look at New Guinea. Another country right on the equator. No electricity and no progress. Cannibalism still goes on there. Why? Because its wired into their own genetic make up and blood line that they have experienced for thousands of years. That is why minoritys have problems today in our slums and cities, because its wired into their genetic evolution of their ancestors.

If you honestly think the equator has nothing to do with the makeup of people, then you really are beyond blind. I understand you can agree with your liberal brothers here and look all honorable. But I will look at the facts of the issue.


lol, no offense ebia, I have read some of your posts. And your talking to me about theology? when you say things like this:




Uh, sorry, but Hell does exist and is the only alternative to heaven



And here it shows you obviously know nothing about Original sin, the redemption, or the abuse of free will.





The Catechism is not a teaching tool at all?? lol..Have you even read the CCC?





hypothetical fact? Uh no. Christ's resurrection is a solid actual real event. Believing in Jesus without believing his resurrection is the worst theological advice I think I've ever heard actually


I don't even wanna get into your posts where you obliterate the theology of the Trinity and the resurrection. But I suggest you look in your own house before bringing up other peoples theologies.. You got quite a glass house there.

Hows the schism in your church going??

where did I say anything about intellect? Habit and intellect are totally different things.

What I was suggesting was genetic differences based on things like the equator and the culture of the people. Did you even wonder why people in the nothern areas are light skinned and people closer to the middle-south are dark skinned?? Do you see people in Iceland in straw huts hunting game with spears and performing pagan rituals??

Do you even know that the reason why Africa is mostly black is because black skin is able to deal with the harsher elements of the hot sun and weather in those areas?? Did you ever think that might be the reason why people closer to the equator are darker skinned? hmmmm

I don't even think the most blunt-liberal will even deny the violence and problems in Africa. But the reality is, is that the people are gonna adapt to that lifestyle and bring it with them in their blood line because that is all they know. Whos' gonna be more inclined to kill someone? A taliban raised child? or a child raised in suburbia in America?

are you honestly that deaf?? I had said nothing about their intellect. I am talking about the habits picked up due to the culture that is relevant to their geographical location. Read that one very carefully before opening your mouth , ok?? If you live in an area where life is viewed as cheap your gonna be more prone to view the humanity of people as less than. A taliban raised child is gonna view life with much less respect than an American teenager. That is a fact.




no, you don't want to address the fact because you know its gonna prove my point. Or maybe your too scared to admit that high crime/murder and bad living conditions happen to be quite related to areas that are quite close to the equator, and that certain areas of the world have living conditions that cause people to change and adjust. A pagan man in Africa isn't gonna fair well in a big modern city, just as a white man in a city isn't gonna fair well in a pagan tribe in Africa. Their bodies adjust to the exterior conditions that they have been bred in.




I'm sorry your grammar is off there, or your babbling something I don't understand