Advice Needed Concerning Christmas

[Deadworm]

Der Alter: "I do not believe that 1 Cor 9:20-22 supports Paul "turns around and honors pagan customs when he ministers to pagans." I don't believe that Paul would have done anything that supported any pagan practice which violated scripture."

First, your point depends on demonstrating that celebrating Christmas and Easter violates Scripture. This you cannot do.

Second, Paul advocates the Christian's right to eat the cheaper meat that has just been sacrificed to idols. thus offending Christians who believe that he is indirectly supporting idolatry. For Paul, the interests of evangelism is a higher priority than such legalism.


Third, Paul worked as a tentmaker in the agoras of Greek cities to avoid any financial burden to his converts. But we know from biblical archaeology that agora administrators required an offering to a Greek god to gain permission to do business there. Paul no doubt went through this ritual to earn a living and gain an audience.

 

[Der Alte]

Der Alter: "I do not believe that 1 Cor 9:20-22 supports Paul "turns around and honors pagan customs when he ministers to pagans." I don't believe that Paul would have done anything that supported any pagan practice which violated scripture."

First, your point depends on demonstrating that celebrating Christmas and Easter violates Scripture. This you cannot do.

Why would I do that? I have never argued that Christmas and Easter violate scripture.

Second, Paul advocates the Christian's right to eat the cheaper meat that has just been sacrificed to idols. thus offending Christians who believe that he is indirectly supporting idolatry. For Paul, the interests of evangelism is a higher priority than such legalism.

Which Jesus Himself did in Mk 7:19

Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging [cleansing] all meats? ​

And Acts 10:13-16

Acts 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Acts 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. ​

Third, Paul worked as a tentmaker in the agoras of Greek cities to avoid any financial burden to his converts. But we know from biblical archaeology that agora administrators required an offering to a Greek god to gain permission to do business there. Paul no doubt went through this ritual to earn a living and gain an audience.

I have never heard that an offering to a Greek god was required to do business in the market. But here is how Jesus handled that situation.

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.​

 

[dqhall]

I no longer observe Christmas or Easter, because I know they are just rebranded pagan holidays. I don't try to push that belief on anyone else, although I rarely get the same consideration. Those who sort of understand it will say things like, "well, it won't hurt for you to come eat dinner with us, will it?" I have very loving brethren who truly want me to share their holidays with them, and I appreciate that love. So, I don't want to hurt their feelings. What is the best way to refuse invitations politely? How to I shut down the pressure tactics gently? What do I say when people give the customary holiday greetings?
(Please don't think I am trying to start an argument here. I have never had much social grace. I really need this advice.)

If you refuse to visit anyone who you think is imperfect, you may be at risk of becoming a hermit.

Hebrews 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

I have a friend who wants to take her children to help feed the homeless on Christmas. She did not mention any pagan roots of a celebration of Christ's birth. Christmas day may be a time of remembrance of the Messiah's birth, even though we do not know the exact day he was born.

 

[seeking633]

About which day the birth of the Savior is observed. So what? Pick a day, any day, it will probably have some significance to some religious group somewhere.
.....How about "Good Friday", nothing wrong with that day is there? Oops seems like Friday is the day Muslim consider to be their equivalent of "Sabbath."
.....Now as for Christmas and Easter being associated with some pagan day, have you ever seen any credible, verifiable, historical evidence showing this? I haven't! I have been a Christian since Johnson was president and a member of this forum for 15+ years. Every year around Christmas and Easter this forum is flooded with "Christmas is pagan, ""Easter is pagan" posts. And every year I and others have asked for evidence and I have never seen any.
.....Any Christian is free to not observe Christmas and Easter as they choose. But if one identifies as a Christian they should not condemn or criticize other Christians who do observe Christmas and Easter, by stating that both days are pagan, with zero evidence. By credible, verifiable, historical evidence I don't mean copy/paste from random websites or some religious group. Such evidence would be written at or about the time of the happening by a participant or direct eye witness. The writings of the early church fathers come to mind.

Actually, I wasn't aware that it was still debated. I just happened to accept it as a well known fact. But even Occam's Razor would imply this as credible would it not? That is; what is the most plausible and least complex reason for the Nativity being celebrated at the time of year it was least likely to happen? And there are scriptural verses which if interpreted in a specific way support the Nativity time to be September or October.

I'm sorry to have upset you.

 

[droptozro]

We deal with the same thing, sometimes even still to this day. We stopped celebrating both of these holidays about 6-7 years ago and initially it caused a firestorm in one side of the family, and then the other. We explained why and condemned no one, yet both sides of the family at one point or another thought we were basically rude for no longer taking part in their holidays yet were unwilling to hear our convictions. If I wanted to start keeping a biblical holiday though, I wouldn't run around condemning my family for not keeping it or coming to my house to celebrate.... yet it seems we weren't to be afforded the same latitude. Tradition holds so strong in people to the point they don't wish to ask "why?" they're even doing a certain holiday or particular act.

Ultimately you're going to have to stand on your convictions as peacefully as possible. I'd suggest the book "Boundaries" by Henry McCloud for some good advice on this subject overall even though it's not particularly about holidays at all.

 

[HittitesA-muk]

hi There . Xmas is a holiday which glorifies Winter . Of course I glorify the greatest season and I know that I have to .

 

[Goodbook]

I no longer observe Christmas or Easter, because I know they are just rebranded pagan holidays. I don't try to push that belief on anyone else, although I rarely get the same consideration. Those who sort of understand it will say things like, "well, it won't hurt for you to come eat dinner with us, will it?" I have very loving brethren who truly want me to share their holidays with them, and I appreciate that love. So, I don't want to hurt their feelings. What is the best way to refuse invitations politely? How to I shut down the pressure tactics gently? What do I say when people give the customary holiday greetings?
(Please don't think I am trying to start an argument here. I have never had much social grace. I really need this advice.)

Is there something else you doing that day, just say you sorry you cant make it, dont have to say why.

If its family, and they are pagans, just be with like minded believers and say you been invited elsewhere or if you just decide to spend it at home this time and if they ask they are welcome to come to your place.

Dont feel forced into going and just make the effort to see them at other times of year. (When its less crazy) and say hope you understand. If they dont its their loss. There is no rule that says everyone MUST attend a christmas function or they will hurt someone elses feelings. Just say thanks for the invite but you cant make it. And wish them all the best.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

For more effective evangelism, Paul observes Jewish holidays and rituals when he is ministering to Jews, and then turns around and honors pagan customs when he ministers to pagans: "To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to win the Jews;...To those outside of the Law (i.e. Gentile pagans) I became as one outside the Law..., so that I might win those outside the Law...I have become all things to all people, so that I might by all means win some (1 Corinthians 9:20-22)."

this passage doesn't advocate sinning for the sake of evangelism which is what participating in pegan practices would be. however, there are certain matters of adiaphora that should not be made stumbling blocks to the gospel proclamation and Paul recognized that.

for example, if I want to evangelize jewish people and invite them to dinner at my place, i'm not going to serve them non-kosher food just because it's not a problem for me to eat non-kosher food. that's the 'compromise' Paul is speaking of.

You may have your own reasons for refusing to celebrate Christmas and Easter, but many (including myself) would view your refusal as an act of disrespect for Christ's virgin birth and bodily resurrection...

those who would make such a claim have no biblical basis to do so and should show more grace to those with a different point of view.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

to the OP,

if a simple declining of the invitation doesn't work in that they ask you why you won't attend I would suggest simply being honest about your convictions. if they have come along in the way of grace, they won't force you to go and it could lead to a conversation where you would be able to discuss your convictions with them in a civil manner where you could both be fully heard and understood.

 

[AACJ]

I no longer observe Christmas or Easter, because I know they are just rebranded pagan holidays. I don't try to push that belief on anyone else, although I rarely get the same consideration. Those who sort of understand it will say things like, "well, it won't hurt for you to come eat dinner with us, will it?" I have very loving brethren who truly want me to share their holidays with them, and I appreciate that love. So, I don't want to hurt their feelings. What is the best way to refuse invitations politely? How to I shut down the pressure tactics gently? What do I say when people give the customary holiday greetings?
(Please don't think I am trying to start an argument here. I have never had much social grace. I really need this advice.)

Christmas is apparently the only time in America where Christ Jesus is lifted up by both Christians and non-Christians. If Christians abandon it, then that will only leave the godless celebrating and singing about Jesus. That would be a tragedy and bring reproach on the Church. The pagan affiliation with Christmas is only applicable in a nation where pagans are bringing trees into their homes for pagan purposes. Do you have neighbors bringing trees into their homes for pagan reasons similar to pagan customs in the days of Jeremiah the prophet? There is no reason to comply with a prohibition if the reason for that prohibition no longer exists.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'm 62 yrs old and I have never once been to a pagan Christmas gathering...nothing even close. And for those that see wreaths, manger scenes, and Christmas songs about Jesus as pagan, they are entirely too holy for me. And I have to wonder if for some, that's no the very purpose behind condemning the most holy day of the year for many.

Have a candy cane and lighten up people.

 

[Victor E.]

I no longer observe Christmas or Easter, because I know they are just rebranded pagan holidays. I don't try to push that belief on anyone else, although I rarely get the same consideration. Those who sort of understand it will say things like, "well, it won't hurt for you to come eat dinner with us, will it?" I have very loving brethren who truly want me to share their holidays with them, and I appreciate that love. So, I don't want to hurt their feelings. What is the best way to refuse invitations politely? How to I shut down the pressure tactics gently? What do I say when people give the customary holiday greetings?
(Please don't think I am trying to start an argument here. I have never had much social grace. I really need this advice.)

They ARE re-branded pagan holidays (like the obvious Halloween). Don't be deceived by those with a lesser calling saying things like "it's ok" or "you're going too far". There is no such thing as "too far" for Christ. I would tell them that you have personal convictions. If they insist, I would go. You would still be under the law of Christ, which causes no harm to a neighbor and promotes peace with everyone. Sometimes people will try and deceive you into thinking it's ok, but if you have a deeper calling/conviction to follow commands to the Lord, do so if you can. Be careful of sinning against Christ. If your faith is great, all things are clean, but we work for what we know to be spiritual truths (like spiritual rewards/life).

1 Corinthians 10 may be helpful for you. One day is not any holier than any other day. They all belong to Christ/God. We should be careful not to cause another believer to stumble and, sin against Christ, if it is unclean for them. I would pray about it.

 

[thesunisout]

I agree that Christmas and Easter are pagan holidays that Christians co-opted. I believe though that God honors them anyway, since we are lifting up the name of Jesus Christ and pointing to His birth and resurrection. I don't agree with some of the traditions, like having a Christmas tree, but I do put up lights. These holidays give us a good opportunity to share His love with people, and tell them about the gospel. To just ignore them and kind of act like they're not happening I think is putting your light under a bushel. If God is truly convicting you not celebrate them then you need to obey God. If you are that concerned about it I would go into a time of prayer and fasting to find out the will of the Lord on this matter.

 

[Leah Beth]

I agree with you on Christmas and Easter holidays being pagan, this is a good resource

 

[Deadworm]

THE W? "this passage doesn't advocate sinning for the sake of evangelism which is what participating in pegan practices would be."

Part of process of pagan Greek meat sacrifices is to send the meat to the market after the ritual. Paul condones this. Nor can you say that Paul would be sinning if he merely performed rituals as a courtesy to a cultural imperative without compromising exclusive worship of the Judeo-Christian God.
It was standard Greek practice to set up statues to an "unknown god." Though pagan Greeks would not deem Yahweh as such a god, Paul interprets their altar and ritual in his own way as an evangelistic tool, and does so without sinning (see his sermon in Acts 17).

 

[Rescued One]

Easter is a mis-translation of pascha, pasche, paskha.

 

[98cwitr]

You can keep your convictions and not celebrate Christmas while attending Christmas parties. I've done it a lot. To me, it's just another party. It's like Paul saying it doesn't matter what you eat...ya know? (1 Cor. 8)

 

[Apostolic1]

A lot of good advice. Thanks, y'all.

 

[Vicomte13]

I no longer observe Christmas or Easter, because I know they are just rebranded pagan holidays. I don't try to push that belief on anyone else, although I rarely get the same consideration. Those who sort of understand it will say things like, "well, it won't hurt for you to come eat dinner with us, will it?" I have very loving brethren who truly want me to share their holidays with them, and I appreciate that love. So, I don't want to hurt their feelings. What is the best way to refuse invitations politely? How to I shut down the pressure tactics gently? What do I say when people give the customary holiday greetings?
(Please don't think I am trying to start an argument here. I have never had much social grace. I really need this advice.)

Accept their invitation as an invitation to dinner, and go and eat dinner. To them, it's a religious holiday. To you, it's dinner.

In response to "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays" and the like, a good response is "Thank you!", and if you like "You too." You are wishing those people to enjoy what they think are holidays, not saying that they are right about the days being holy.

That's it. Because other people are celebrating holidays you don't celebrate, you do not have to become a hermit, and you don't have to make the days grim. You're not compromising anything by eating dinner with somebody. You have to eat, right?

When you are invited to a Bar Mitzvah and you go and celebrate, you didn't just convert to Judaism.

In short, don't celebrate the holiday as a holiday if you don't think it's a holiday, but don't get it into your head that God requires you explicitly to isolate yourself FROM people who are celebrating. He never said any such thing to the Christians.

 

[Widlast]

I no longer observe Christmas or Easter, because I know they are just rebranded pagan holidays. I don't try to push that belief on anyone else, although I rarely get the same consideration. Those who sort of understand it will say things like, "well, it won't hurt for you to come eat dinner with us, will it?" I have very loving brethren who truly want me to share their holidays with them, and I appreciate that love. So, I don't want to hurt their feelings. What is the best way to refuse invitations politely? How to I shut down the pressure tactics gently? What do I say when people give the customary holiday greetings?
(Please don't think I am trying to start an argument here. I have never had much social grace. I really need this advice.)

Did it ever occur to you that your notions about Christmas and Easter are pure nonsense?