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Discussion in 'General Theology' started by SpiritPsalmist, Sep 11, 2002.

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  1. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    Please do write more, or instruct me better on suffering. I have personally suffered much from disease the last near seven years.
  2. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    United States

    I'm unsure of the emotion behind your statement.  Please understand I do not claim to be perfectly following what I believe the Word of God to say.  I am growing in this area too.

    Unless we have continued to walk in rebellion, and ignored the wooing of the Holy Spirit, I don't believe that any of us, as children of God, are at the "mercy" of our adversary satan. 

    He actually, is at our "mercy" and we should give him none.  Adam and Eve were given dominion over "everything that creepeth".  That included the serpent.  God never took that command back, we've reneged it. 

    Luke 10:19 "Behold, I give unto you power to <B>tread</B> on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

    Jesus said this to them for then and also to us for now.&nbsp; We have the authority over satan.&nbsp; We do not have to put up with what he puts on us.

    Yes, a great deal of the time we bring things upon ourselfs.&nbsp; But a great deal of the time we bring it by letting it.&nbsp; By not fighting our enemy according to the Word.&nbsp;

    A symptom shows up, the world has a name for and we claim it as ours.&nbsp; My cancer, My illness, My problem. My, My, My, My. We've put our&nbsp;name on it and&nbsp;it's ours.&nbsp; All our waking hours are spent talking about it, thinking about it, being depressed about it, crying about it.&nbsp; And none of those things are what God says to do about it.

    God says if you ask for bread, He will give you bread, not a stone.&nbsp; If you ask for healing, according to His Word, you are healed.&nbsp; That healing was a part of what Jesus did for us at the cross.&nbsp; You are healed (IS 53:5, 1 Peter 2:24).&nbsp;

    So it does not matter what the symptoms say.&nbsp; We ask God, then we thank Him for His answer of YES!&nbsp; We continue to thank Him for His answer of YES until we see the symptoms match up with the Word of God.&nbsp; It may take a lifetime and conceding to the world is not an option.

    If you need to take medicine, take it.&nbsp; If you need treatments, take them.&nbsp; Do whatever you need to do until your healing manifests or God takes you home.&nbsp; And during that time, continue to praise Him for His faithfullness to you.&nbsp;

    Don't continue to mull over your symptoms.&nbsp; You are healed!&nbsp;

    I know whereof I speak.&nbsp; I am walking through this too.&nbsp; We can stand in agreement together and thank God together that we are healed.&nbsp; Our enemy is under our feet.&nbsp; Our enemy is a lier.

    We are healed.&nbsp; In Jesus name.&nbsp; We are healed.&nbsp;&nbsp; :priest:
  3. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    What do you think of Lamentations, the 3rd chapter? Thank you.
  4. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    United States
    I see that in the middle of all the things that Jerimiah was experiencing as a prophesy over Jerusalem due to their disobedience that he remembered there was hope.&nbsp; See chapter 3:21-28.

    There was hope and expectation of deliverence.&nbsp; :bow:
  5. SpiritPsalmist

    SpiritPsalmist Heavy lean toward Messianic Supporter

    United States

    I know this is off the subject but I see in your bio that you play the guitar?

    What kind of music do you play?&nbsp; I play the guitar too but I would like to be better.&nbsp;&nbsp;Actually, I have not played in awhile but the Lord has been nudging me to pick it up again.&nbsp; I use to play on a couple of worship teams and I&nbsp;have a 12 string that I love. . .

    PS:&nbsp; I've given you some blessings, ya needed more than&nbsp;ya had&nbsp;

  6. Stormy

    Stormy Senior Contributor

    Interesting thread. Do not have the time to read it all now. I will later.

    But this I agree with! :)
  7. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    I do agree that we have great benefit and protection if we abide in Christ. Unfortunately, the living sacrifice has a tendency to crawl off the alter and sin with the members of flesh. Then suffering comes for sure.
    Every time we sin, we put in jeopardy the promises we have in Christ, and Jesus knew this even when He healed. (Lu. 5:20) - that makes it pretty hard for some indiviuals to claim healing (like me). Each person's battle with the flesh surely has some bearing on health and wealth.........I can't really judge others about this, but I know my old nature is strong and I am a classic example of a person that REALLY needs a Saviour.
    1 Pet. 4:1 says that, "he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;", and that must be the case for me. The only way I won't sin is for me to suffer in the flesh. I feel that this is merciful as I would not want to miss out on spending eternity with our beautiful and wonderful Lord. I love Him.
    Each time I took the Lord's supper, I thought of the brokenness of our Lord's body and flesh, and take it into my own body as true meat that can save me if I'm willing to be broken, also. That's part of my prayers. I knew I didn't have a chance of being a real Christian on my own merits, so I told Him "whatever it takes".
    I still have hope of restoration and service to Him as He is able to do such miraculous things, and his mercies are everlasting. I would hope to only warn others of the consequences of entering into a covenant with God and then not taking serious the blood that cleanses us and keeps us. Some that took the Lord's supper in unworthy fashion died or became sick.
    Satan is a roaring lion, but cannot touch unless given permission, and he constantly seeks to destroy those of faith, so be careful to not take God and all His blessings lightly. Satans messenger as a thorn in the flesh to the apostle Paul to keep him humble is another example of who has control.
    Stay strong and healthy in the faith and work while their is light to work and you can serve with all your strength. I did for a while, but was easily tempted by my own lusts and have payed a great price. I stand as a witness in hope that I may encourage others to add more resolve to their efforts to stay close to the Lord in all obedience and submission to His will for their lives. He is our life.......Gal. 2:20

    2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
  8. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member


    Aren't you born again? Dont you know that once you put your trust in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, your sins (past,present,future) have already been wiped out?

    Whatever you receive today from God, whether its healing or prosperity, you receive becos you believe. God blesses inspite of who you are becos and only becos of Christ Jesus' finished work. That's the beauty of his Grace!

    You are still trying to earn salvation. You are trying to earn healing. Both are free gifts, and you can't do anything to receive except believe.

    Communion is not a time to take on suffering -- that's self righteousness -- and trying to add to the FINISHED work of Christ. Christ suffered so that you need not suffer. But you are doing the opposite and trying to be like Lamb of God no 2.

    At the cross are all the divine exchanges (what Christ gave up SO THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE IT) some of which are:

    * He became sin that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21). In other words, He took on our sinful nature that we may take on His righteousness.

    * He died that we might have eternal life (Romans 6:23).

    * He bore your pains and sicknesses that you might have health (Isa 53:3,4)

    * His body was broken and ours might be whole!

    * He was made a curse on the cross that we might be blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 1:3).

    * He was made materially poor at the cross that we might be made materially rich (2 Corinthians 8:9).

    * He was forsaken on the cross by His Father that we might never be forsaken by Him (Matthew 27:46, Matthew 28:20, Mark 15:34, Hebrews 13:5).

    * He lost the Father-Son relationship (Jesus called His Father, "God", for the first time on the cross) so that we might call God "Abba! Father!" (Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34, Romans 8:15, Galatians 4:6).

    * He bore God's wrath that we might not be appointed unto wrath (Isaiah 53:5, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 1 Thessalonians 5:9).

    * He became a man of sorrows on the cross that we might have His joy (Isaiah 53:3, John 16:20, John 17:13).

    The list is by no means exhaustive. There is so much more that Jesus suffered and died to give us. We are only scratching the surface of God's grace. Perhaps that is why Paul said that he was determined to know nothing else but Christ and Christ crucified (1 Corinthians 2:2), that is, Jesus and what He had accomplished on the cross.

    SO instead of rejoicing and finding out what belongs to you, and receiving by faith, you are trying to take the place of Christ on the cross by 'suffering' as he did. This is self-righteouness.

    Let go and rest in the finished work of the cross. Rest in the Son.

    If you want to know what communion is all about, I'd encourage you to visit this link:


    Communion is a time to receive health and healing, and a time to remember how righteous you are in Christ. Not to condemn yourself.

    You may be struggling with some sin or sins. IF sin has dominion over you, then the Bible says its becos you dont know God's grace and have put yourself under laws/dos and donts. Expose yourself to his pure grace, and those sins will fall off like dead leaves off a healthy tree. Grace transforms from inside out, and the process is effortless becos it is no longer you doing it but the power of the Holy Spirit. Ob your part you just continue to love him and worship him and hear abt his grace.
  9. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    raphe, serve God dispite your phsyical condition. Love God and love others. that's what it boils down to. It doesn't matter if you're sick, healty, rich or poor, just love God and obey him and you're set. Christ came to give us hope. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. If you're sick, so what, maybe its God's will, maybe its not. Keep praying about it and maybe he will heal you, but like the young boys in the book of daniel, serve God no matter what, even if he doesn't.
  10. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

    Andrew.......do I really sound like someone that hasn't invited the Lord into my life? I have asked to be born again and have been baptized twice. Once as a child and as an adult, just so that I knew it was out of my need for a Sviour and not just a child trying to please a father (although there was nothing wrong with that).
    I attended Assembly of God churches and have gone on to work with the handicapped and a group that took seriously the sriptures where Jesus asks if we fed Him and clothed Him. I would serve on Sunday till near 7.00PM at night and then we would gather for the Lord's supper.
    This work was wonderful to me, as I knew in my heart that it was right, but a bad marriage and sin caused me to lose focus on my Lord and I backslid right out of His protection and into harms way. I've heard just about all the speculations and doctrines that there are about this, but I had to live through it and sit still while God taught me. I have truely had to cease my sin because of the suffering in the flesh (1 Pet. 4:1). I would not or could not do it on my own and had to learn the hard way much like the wild&nbsp;donkey portrayed for its obstinance in the Bible. I would not take one precious spec of faith away from any that feel secure while abiding in Christ, but I know that God loves me so much that He would stop me from destroying myself over and because of sin. "Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me"........Surely the rod is a rod of discipline, and the stripes on the unworthy servants were stripes from that rod:

    Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    Nobody should lose their faith if it is tested. I never believed that I would ever get sick like this. It is not even a thing in our family, but rest assured it was me that nearly died many times over with fever and loss of blood to the point that the bed mattress had to be changed as the blood soaked through it from 80% of my sin falling off. I would have none of it, but for the relationship I have with God. I trust and love Him more now than ever.

    I sincerely hope that everybody is as strong in faith as they think they are and that their faith will keep them. Even a mustard seed size faith can move mountains, and I believe this and wait for my miracle of restoration or grace sufficient for me to complete God's will for my life. My will becomes less and less, and my desires of heart much more resemble those of a person with a mind for obedience and service to God instead of just wealth and health in a world passing away. I like to think my spirit is much stronger after this trial, and that my faith shall come through like gold through fire, burning off the dross and impurities of temporal life.
    If I could get immediate healing for a broken back, graft versus host disease, and a number of other cancer related ailments, I'd be glad to receive them, but the number of Job's friends I have is astounding. I am pretty much a leper to the faith/confession crowd and they take my presence as an offense to their faith. I'm not bitter, though, and I hope you can feel my humility as I have confessed that it is sin that has caused this to happen. I wouldn't want to be around me either, but I do have a few friends that check up on me. I used to take the Lord's supper to people at nursing homes and pray with them. How I have wished that some would come and minister to me. You would be surprised how few are willing to do that and think that only pastors and priests can minister communion. I believe we are all priests - a royal priesthood such as 1 Pet. 2:9 states.
    Self-righteous for taking on the brokenness of Christ? What then does Heb. 5:8 mean? Did Christ learn obedience by suffering or not? Why you would believe the very worst thing about me on this, I don't know. Love would not. We partake of all the master and put to death the members of our body, daily, to follow Him bearing our own cross of burdens specifically designed for us in His will. You know the scripture:
    Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
    Thanks for taking time to talk with me and I believe as you do about receiving healing and all the benefits of abiding. I just hope all will be warned about taking these things for granted, and finding themselves outside of God's protection and in sin. Each sin robs us of the most precious thing - faith, but even if our own hearts condemn us, He is greater than our hearts. (1 John 3:20-22)
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