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Adventist: amalgamation in CERTAIN races of men.

tall73

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The term for races by the way is already answered in the definitions provided already shared with you in the linked posts already.

Which I quoted. I will quote it again:

LGW: POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.

That is what you said about post-flood. So now apply that to the post-flood quote:

Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {3SG 75.2}

Name the certain races. And name the ones not in the certain races.
 
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tall73

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Now do you have anything else new?

We would have something new if you would answer the question. So far Adventists putting forth this theory do not want to answer the question:

Name the certain races. And name the ones not in the certain races.

Remember your post-flood race definition:

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.

And now apply that to the post-flood quote:

Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {3SG 75.2}


Name the certain races. And name the ones not in the certain races.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Which I quoted. I will quote it again:

LGW: POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.

That is what you said about post-flood. So now apply that to the post-flood quote:

Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men. {3SG 75.2} Name the certain races. And name the ones not in the certain races.

No. All of this has already been answered and addressed in the linked posts just provided to you on the previous page. Which you seem unwilling to engage in. It was not my definition of "race" that was provided it was from wiki on the history of it's use.

Wikipedia - Race

A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society.[1] The term was first used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations. By the 17th century the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits. Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society.[2] While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.[1][3][4]

Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time, often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits.[5] Today, scientists consider such biological essentialism obsolete,[6] and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits.[7][8][9][10][11]

Even though there is a broad scientific agreement that essentialist and typological conceptions of race are untenable,[12][13][14][15][16][17] scientists around the world continue to conceptualize race in widely differing ways.[18] While some researchers continue to use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits or observable differences in behavior, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race is inherently naive[7] or simplistic.[19] Still others argue that, among humans, race has no taxonomic significance because all living humans belong to the same subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[20][21]

Since the second half of the 20th century, the association of race with the discredited theories of scientific racism has contributed to race becoming increasingly seen as a largely pseudoscientific system of classification. Although still used in general contexts, race has often been replaced by less ambiguous and loaded terms: populations, people(s), ethnic groups, or communities, depending on context.[22][23]

.................

So as shown above her application to "the races" pre-flood and post-flood was quite consistent to the understanding and the application of the word "race" used in her day

APPLICATION TO RACES (Name the races?)

PRE-FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; national affiliations (believers and unbelievers; Sons of God and the Sons of Cain); observable differences in behavior

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.

................

It is pretty easy to see the applications here in the quote you provided in regards to intermarriage and the races with application to believers and unbelievers in all nations of the world leading God's people back into idolatry. It is all through the bible. Sorry dear friend but we will have to agree to disagree. For me when the context is added back into your OP it is not saying what you are claiming it does.

So that will do it for me as it seems you have nothing new to add to what has already been discussed.

I will leave you to your discussion (merry go round) :wave:
 
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tall73

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It is pretty easy to see the applications here in the quote you provided in regards to intermarriage and the races with application to believers and unbelievers in all nations of the world leading God's people back into idolatry.

I note you did not explain how certain races would exhibit this and others would not.

So you did not in fact answer the question. Ellen White did not say all nations of the world. She said certain races.

LGW: POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.


I will leave you to your discussion (merry go round)

It certainly is a merry-go-round trying to get Adventists to say which were the "certain races" Ellen White mentioned, and which were not.

Here you said all nations. That was not what she said. Which are the certain races?

LGW: POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.


And in case you are back to claiming believers and unbelievers are races, that doesn't work. Because she sees amalgamation in plural "certain races". Unbelievers is only one group. And by your definition believers would not have amalgamation.

 
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tall73

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For me when the context is added back into your OP it is not saying what you are claiming it does.

My OP didn't claim what it was. You did. But then you switched terms and talked about all nations instead of certain races.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I note you did not explain how certain races would exhibit this and others would not.

So you did not in fact answer the question. Ellen White did not say all nations of the world. She said certain races.

LGW: POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.



It certainly is a merry-go-round trying to get Adventists to say which were the "certain races" Ellen White mentioned, and which were not.

Here you said all nations. That was not what she said. Which are the certain races?

LGW: POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.


And in case you are back to claiming believers and unbelievers are races, that doesn't work. Because she sees amalgamation in plural "certain races". Unbelievers is only one group. And by your definition believers would not have amalgamation.

No, I did not switch any terms, I only provided the historical use and definition of "races" pointing out that your trying to change the word definitions and application of "races" to something they were never applied to as already shown in the last post to you with different application of "races" applied to word meanings pre-flood and post-flood. So if you do not have anything new Tall I think I will leave it here as I believe your OP has been addressed in detail with both context and word application to "races" which I believe disagree with your interpretation of the SOP quotes you provided. Thank you for the discussion but we will have to agree to disagree I guess :wave:
 
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tall73

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No, I did not switch any terms, I only provided the historical use and definition of "races" pointing out that your trying to change the word definitions and application of "races" to something they were never applied to as already shown in the last post to you with different application of "races" applied to word meanings pre-flood and post-flood. So if you do not have anything new Tall I think I will leave it here as I believe your OP has been addressed in detail with both context and word application to "races" which I believe disagree with your interpretation of the SOP quotes you provided. Thank you for the discussion but we will have to agree to disagree I guess :wave:

You are welcome to leave the thread when you like. But you still haven't identified the certain races.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You are welcome to leave the thread when you like. But you still haven't identified the certain races.
Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Post # 143 and elsewhere disagrees with your claims here as the definitions of race determines application and interpretation to race pre and post-flood as well as the contexts already provided to you. I do not see that you have provided anything new here to the last time I was here except to ignore what was shared with you because it disagrees with your OP and interpretation of the SOP quotes you provided. That is why I have decided to leave as I am more interested in discussing the scripture to be honest while your seeking to make the conversation about something else. Anyhow thanks again we will agree to disagree :wave:
 
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mmksparbud

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For Pete's sake---by the time that Noah came around---he and his family were the only ones that were among the children of God---all the others slowly became evil by intermarrying. It didn't happen overnight. Noah reflected the character and likeness of God--that is what following God does, the rest slowly took on the character and likeness of their god---Satan. This was pre and post flood. You can't see the trees for the forest and this is all that I have to say on the subject. I am unwatching this thread.
 
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tall73

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For Pete's sake---by the time that Noah came around---he and his family were the only ones that were among the children of God

We agree.

---all the others slowly became evil by intermarrying.

People may become evil whether they intermarry or not. Cain himself did not marry into idolatry. He turned from the Lord without marriage having anything to do with it.

And whoever was the first to turn from the Lord after the flood also wouldn't have done it by marriage.

Now in Genesis 6 marriage is discussed. And even then it would have nothing to do with race. If you are saying believer and unbeliever, those are not races.

It didn't happen overnight.

Agreed.


Noah reflected the character and likeness of God--that is what following God does, the rest slowly took on the character and likeness of their god---Satan. This was pre and post flood. You can't see the trees for the forest and this is all that I have to say on the subject. I am unwatching this thread.

I see that those who follow God reflect His character. I see that those who follow Satan reflect his character.

It Genesis didn't mention that having to do with race. And it doesn't have to do with race now either.

Nor does this answer how in Ellen White's time she could see amalgamation, a base crime which defaced the image of God, in certain races of men.

All races of men have unbelievers.
 
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tall73

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Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Post # 143 and elsewhere disagrees with your claims here as the definitions of race determines application and interpretation to race pre and post-flood as well as the contexts already provided to you.

You never provided the races referenced in her post-flood comment.

Unless you meant believer and unbeliever. And those are not races. And they do not fit the criteria, because she said amalgamation was in certain races, plural, post flood.


I do not see that you have provided anything new here to the last time I was here except to ignore what was shared with you because it disagrees with your OP and interpretation of the SOP quotes you provided.

Well we agree it disagrees with my OP, but not because of anything I said. It was your interpretation, and it doesn't match the details of her quote.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You never provided the races referenced in her post-flood comment.Unless you meant believer and unbeliever. And those are not races. And they do not fit the criteria, because she said amalgamation was in certain races, plural, post flood.
Please be truthful I provided the definitions and application of races in post # 143 and elsewhere throughout this thread as well as the context of the quotes you provided that disagreed with your interpretation of the quotes you shared.
Well we agree it disagrees with my OP, but not because of anything I said. It was your interpretation, and it doesn't match the details of her quote.
Yes it was because of everything you said (see post # 43; post # 46; post # 71; post # 83). Yes it was your interpretation that was at fault as shown already in the linked posts provided once again proven once context was added back in and the definitions of "race" was provided. Therefore it is your interpretation that we are in disagreement on. Once again time to leave this merry go round. Your only repeating yourself now when your claims have already been addressed. Let's talk more when you want to discuss the scriptures. :wave:
 
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tall73

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Please be truthful I provided the definitions and application of races in post # 143 and elsewhere throughout this thread as well as the context of the quotes you provided that disagreed with your interpretation of the quotes you shared.

How am I being untruthful? I posted the summary definition you gave for post-flood many times.

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.


So which were the "certain" populations of people that she saw amalgamation in ?

And which were the certain populations of people she did not?

Yes it was because of everything you said (see post # 43; post # 46; post # 71; post # 83). Yes it was your interpretation that was at fault as shown already in the linked posts provided once again.

The OP included no interpretation.

Once you stated your view I simply applied the definitions you provided.

You said post-flood:

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.

So which were the "certain" populations of people that she saw amalgamation in?

Because "certain races" means multiple populations had amalgamation. But you didn't specify them.

And you didn't specify which ones didn't have it.
 
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tall73

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Please be truthful I provided the definitions and application of races in post # 143

Let's take this one step at a time. Regarding POST-FLOOD, is this the summary definition you quoted as applying to post-flood?

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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How am I being untruthful? I posted the summary definition you gave for post-flood many times.

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.


So which were the "certain" populations of people that she saw amalgamation in ?

And which were the certain populations of people she did not?



The OP included no interpretation.

Once you stated your view I simply applied the definitions you provided.

You said post-flood:

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.

So which were the "certain" populations of people that she saw amalgamation in?

Because "certain races" means multiple populations had amalgamation. But you didn't specify them.

And you didn't specify which ones didn't have it.

No you didn't
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Let's take this one step at a time. Regarding POST-FLOOD, is this the summary definition you quoted as applying to post-flood?

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.
No thank you, the merry go round ride has already finished.
 
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tall73

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Already done so but thanks anyway.

This is as close as you got, but it makes no sense:

POST FLOOD APPLICATION TO RACE; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits.

................

It is pretty easy to see the applications here in the quote you provided in regards to intermarriage and the races with application to believers and unbelievers in all nations of the world leading God's people back into idolatry.

Believers and unbelievers are not races.

She says you can see amalgamation in "certain races" plural.

Unbelievers are one group, not plural.

By your definition believers would not show amalgamation.

So if that is your answer it doesn't fit the quote.

If you mean that some races (populations of people) intermarry with idolators, and other races (populations of peole) do not intermarry with idolators, then name the races.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This is as close as you got, but it makes no sense:



Believers and unbelievers are not races.

She says you can see amalgamation in "certain races" plural.

Unbelievers are one group, not plural.

By your definition believers would not show amalgamation.

So if that is your answer it doesn't fit the quote.

Your pretending I am saying things here I am not saying. Please read the linked posts already provided to you.

Pre-flood application to the definition of race; is to Seths line - believers and Cains line - unbelievers two groups - plural.

Post-flood; application to race; populations of people' communities; Ethnic groups; common languages and physical traits - plural.

Not very hard now is it? Your kind of stuck here I see. Take your time and re-read my posts to you. Let me know if you have something new to add. Until then this is only repetition and not worth anyone's time as on top of the above definitions to "race" the contexts have already been provided that disagree with your OP here.
 
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