Adventism refuted by Orthodoxy

[BobRyan]

Why are you arguing regarding the Sabbath and Orthodoxy. That has never changed. The 7th day has always been the Sabbath and continues to be so. In Orthodoxy, Sunday is not the Sabbath day and never was. I do not know what the RCC or Protestants adhere to.

Do the orthodox churches accept or reject the TEN Commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Explicit mention, though in the negative, can be found in Tertullian's On Baptism, around 200 AD. Tertullian's argument against the practice of infant baptism assumes that the practice is widely practiced in the Church, and doesn't reject the meaning and efficacy of Baptism. On the contrary, Tertullian's argument against the baptism of infants hinges on the efficacy of Baptism; but what Tertullian argues is that because sins are cleaned in the waters of Baptism then to sin after baptism is to put your soul into serious jeopardy, thus to baptize an infant--he thinks--is to risk them having a lifetime to sin and therefore damn themselves to destruction.

is the argument that "if anybody baptized an invent in the 3rd century - then everybody must have been doing it?"

 

[BobRyan]

None of which happened in the Orthodox lands. There was no inquisition in Russia, Greece, Roumelia, Syria, Egypt, Armenia, Ethiopia or India.

The Orthodox churches continued to honor the Bible Sabbath long after the RCC was discarding it -- and the churches in Ethiopia are pretty clear on that point.


=============================
from - *Free: “Honoring of the Sabbath in the Historic Orthodox Church” booklet – Orthodox Church of the Culdees, Home of the Priory of Salem, TCAWW, and Watchman News

While the official Orthodox doctrine remains that Saturday is the Sabbath and must be kept holy, most churches have drifted to put more emphasis on Sunday. The Saturday Sabbath does however remain mentioned as a requirement within the teachings in each branch of the Orthodox faith. Very few these days have emphasis on Saturday, for example the Armenians and Copts in Jerusalem, the Celtic and Gothian churches. These still keep Saturday in the Christian Orthodox way, the same way it has always been kept holy and above the other days of the week. The Apostles’ Didascalaia that is followed as canonical by several branches of the church today prescribes the keeping of Saturday above Sunday in fine detail.

This isn’t exclusive to the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Quoting numerous authorities, you will find at the heart of the Great Schism breakaway of the Western church, was this Sabbath point. Still today, the Orthodox texts of the Anglican and Episcopal Church retain a weekly recital of the Saturday Collects which confirm the teaching that we must abstain from work on Saturdays. This legacy was handed down from the British Orthodox Church. While the Book of Common Prayer leaves it up to the local bishops to decide which days to keep holy. This text and liturgy of the B.C.P. was kept within all the subsequent branches of the Church, even the most non-conformist and dissenter churches kept the Orthodox text of the B.C.P. from 1549 until the 1960’s in a far-reaching unity.

 

[ViaCrucis]

is the argument that "if anybody baptized an invent in the 3rd century - then everybody must have been doing it?"

Did you actually read what I wrote? If you had then you'd know that's not the argument. If you didn't read what I wrote, then get back to me when you have.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Orthodox churches continued to honor the Bible Sabbath long after the RCC was discarding it -- and the churches in Ethiopia are pretty clear on that point.


=============================
from - *Free: “Honoring of the Sabbath in the Historic Orthodox Church” booklet – Orthodox Church of the Culdees, Home of the Priory of Salem, TCAWW, and Watchman News

While the official Orthodox doctrine remains that Saturday is the Sabbath and must be kept holy, most churches have drifted to put more emphasis on Sunday. The Saturday Sabbath does however remain mentioned as a requirement within the teachings in each branch of the Orthodox faith. Very few these days have emphasis on Saturday, for example the Armenians and Copts in Jerusalem, the Celtic and Gothian churches. These still keep Saturday in the Christian Orthodox way, the same way it has always been kept holy and above the other days of the week. The Apostles’ Didascalaia that is followed as canonical by several branches of the church today prescribes the keeping of Saturday above Sunday in fine detail.

This isn’t exclusive to the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Quoting numerous authorities, you will find at the heart of the Great Schism breakaway of the Western church, was this Sabbath point. Still today, the Orthodox texts of the Anglican and Episcopal Church retain a weekly recital of the Saturday Collects which confirm the teaching that we must abstain from work on Saturdays. This legacy was handed down from the British Orthodox Church. While the Book of Common Prayer leaves it up to the local bishops to decide which days to keep holy. This text and liturgy of the B.C.P. was kept within all the subsequent branches of the Church, even the most non-conformist and dissenter churches kept the Orthodox text of the B.C.P. from 1549 until the 1960’s in a far-reaching unity.

It's this kind stubbornness in being wrong that seems to be a hallmark of Adventist apologetics and polemics on this website.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Monk Brendan]

Certainly it is true that the Catholic and Orthodox churches believe in that "Communion with the Dead" idea - as if it were "a good thing" -- and the Adventist church does not.

The thing I dispute with you is the erroneous theory that when a person dies, that's it, until the great Judgment. Both Orthodox and Catholic believe that the soul/spirit lives on.

Ever since Jesus rose from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life, there has never been any disagreement on this, among any of the Pre-Reformation Churches.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Adventists believe in the 1Thess 4 existence of the soul in the state that Paul refers to as "sleep" in 1 Thess 4 and most other churches reject it. But that does not mean that most other denominations think "Communion with the Dead" is a good thing. In fact they think it is not good.

We've been around a lot longer than any of the others. We are larger, more mature, and, because we have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we know a lot more than some crazed lady in the 1800's

 

[Monk Brendan]

Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion

There is no such book. Rather, try the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Monk Brendan]

It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its arrogant claims (see Appendix); and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as “the Lord’s day.”

The Roman Catholic Church did NOT change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. This was done before Constantine had legalized the religion. While being a Christian--just one Church back then--was still punishable by death, the idea of the Lord's Day--Sunday--had replaced the Saturday Sabbath because Sunday is when Christ rose from the dead.

Back in those times, there was no Popery going on, and the Church did not have any means of using the power of the state, because it was still an illicit, illegal, religion, punishable by death.

 

[Monk Brendan]

It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its arrogant claims (see Appendix); and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as “the Lord’s day.”

Why, then, are there Churches of Apostolic origin that use Sunday as the main day of worship, but they have had NO contact with Rome? For instance, the St. Thomas Christians of India

 

[Monk Brendan]

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

And the Bible never said anything about a woman making up things and desiring it to be treated with the same weight as the Bible.

And the Scripture says, "18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"
Rev 22:18-19

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Do the orthodox churches accept or reject the TEN Commandments?

Absolutely accept!

 

[Monk Brendan]

from - *Free: “Honoring of the Sabbath in the Historic Orthodox Church” booklet – Orthodox Church of the Culdees, Home of the Priory of Salem, TCAWW, and Watchman News

This is a spurious bit of non-news put out by the so-called Celtic Orthodox Church which has never been a part of the Orthodox Communion of Churches. They have never been recognized as canonical. In other words, their bishops have not been canonically ordained, which means that any ordinations THEY have done are invalid.

Without canonical bishops, this is just a heretical club.

 

[BobRyan]

The Orthodox churches continued to honor the Bible Sabbath long after the RCC was discarding it -- and the churches in Ethiopia are pretty clear on that point.


=============================
from - *Free: “Honoring of the Sabbath in the Historic Orthodox Church” booklet – Orthodox Church of the Culdees, Home of the Priory of Salem, TCAWW, and Watchman News

While the official Orthodox doctrine remains that Saturday is the Sabbath and must be kept holy, most churches have drifted to put more emphasis on Sunday. The Saturday Sabbath does however remain mentioned as a requirement within the teachings in each branch of the Orthodox faith. Very few these days have emphasis on Saturday, for example the Armenians and Copts in Jerusalem, the Celtic and Gothian churches. These still keep Saturday in the Christian Orthodox way, the same way it has always been kept holy and above the other days of the week. The Apostles’ Didascalaia that is followed as canonical by several branches of the church today prescribes the keeping of Saturday above Sunday in fine detail.

This isn’t exclusive to the Eastern Orthodox Churches. Quoting numerous authorities, you will find at the heart of the Great Schism breakaway of the Western church, was this Sabbath point. Still today, the Orthodox texts of the Anglican and Episcopal Church retain a weekly recital of the Saturday Collects which confirm the teaching that we must abstain from work on Saturdays. This legacy was handed down from the British Orthodox Church. While the Book of Common Prayer leaves it up to the local bishops to decide which days to keep holy. This text and liturgy of the B.C.P. was kept within all the subsequent branches of the Church, even the most non-conformist and dissenter churches kept the Orthodox text of the B.C.P. from 1549 until the 1960’s in a far-reaching unity.
---- end quote ---

===========================

This is a spurious bit of non-news put out by the so-called Celtic Orthodox Church which has never been a part of the Orthodox Communion of Churches.

Let us say for the sake of argument that you are at war with this Celtic Orthodox Church -- then is it fair to say you are also at war with their historic facts?

Historic facts in their text such as -
1. "Armenians and Copts in Jerusalem, the Celtic and Gothian churches. These still keep Saturday "
2. "Still today, the Orthodox texts of the Anglican and Episcopal Church retain a weekly recital of the Saturday Collects"
3. The Apostles’ Didascalaia that is followed as canonical by several branches of the church today prescribes the keeping of Saturday above Sunday in fine detail.
4. "at the heart of the Great Schism breakaway of the Western church, was this Sabbath point."




aside from the dark-ages practice of 'name calling' to address the opposition -- do you have historic facts to argue against their 4 claims about history and documents in the text above?

 

[BobRyan]

Why are you arguing regarding the Sabbath and Orthodoxy. That has never changed. The 7th day has always been the Sabbath and continues to be so. In Orthodoxy, Sunday is not the Sabbath day and never was. I do not know what the RCC or Protestants adhere to.

Do the orthodox churches accept or reject the TEN Commandments?

Absolutely accept!

Then I will continue to list them in my signature line as follows

=================================================

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)

 

[BobRyan]

And how many time has SHE been wrong?

Here is just one:
Yet another inaccuracy is found in chapter 25 of The Great Controversy. Ellen White claims that the change of the Sabbath to Sunday was accomplished by the Pope with the "power of the state":

But she does not say that the first efforts of the Bishop of Rome for Sunday worship - were delayed until they had the power of the state to suggest it.

BTW thank you for quoting from the book "Great Controversy" for me -- it is only fair that I quote from your documents as well.

=============================================

"The Faith Explained" - The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

And the Bible never said anything about a woman making up things and desiring it to be treated with the same weight as the Bible.

And the Scripture says, "18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"
Rev 22:18-19

1. Is it your claim that Revelation was the last book of the Bible written - instead of Gospel of John?
2. Is it your claim that the 1 Cor 12 chapter on gifts including the gift of prophecy claims that as soon as John writes revelation there is no more gift of prophecy?
3. Or is it your claim that the gift of prophecy never existed and if it did exist - it should have been rejected?
4. In your "making stuff up and desiring it to be treated with the same weight as the Bible" statement are you simply "quoting you" or are you quoting someone else?

5. Does any of that address the quote just provided above where even the RCC commentary on the CCC admits there is no Bible basis for changing the Sabbath commandment - also called the LORD's Day?

6. Is it your claim that in Revelation 22 - John is condemning the gift of prophecy as we see it in Numbers 12 and 1Cor 12?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its arrogant claims (see Appendix); and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as “the Lord’s day.”

2 different events - not one instantaneous irrational leap to the other side of the fence

Why, then, are there Churches of Apostolic origin that use Sunday as the main day of worship, but they have had NO contact with Rome? For instance, the St. Thomas Christians of India

Saint Thomas Christians - New World Encyclopedia

"The Saint Thomas Christians are a group of Christians from the Malabar coast (now Kerala) in South India, who follow Syriac Christianity. [1][2][3][4] The different groups and denominations within the St Thomas Christians together form the Nasrani people. Their tradition goes back to the beginnings of first century Christian thought, and the seven churches that are believed to have been established by Saint Thomas the Apostle. The Nasrani preserved the original rituals of the early Jewish Christians, such as covering their heads while in worship and holding their ritual service on Saturdays in the tradition of the Jewish Sabbath. They also believed that the Romans killed Jesus"

 

[BobRyan]

And how many time has SHE been wrong?

Here is just one:
Yet another inaccuracy is found in chapter 25 of The Great Controversy. Ellen White claims that the change of the Sabbath to Sunday was accomplished by the Pope with the "power of the state":

"It was on behalf of Sunday that popery first asserted its arrogant claims; and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as 'the Lord's Day.'" (page 447) She makes another similar statement later in the book: "Royal edicts, general councils, and church ordinances sustained by secular power were the steps by which the pagan festival [day of the Sun] attained its position of honor in the Christian world." (page 574) Before we read Dr. Bacchoicchi's assessment of these quotes, let me remind the reader that Dr. Bacchiocchi is still widely regarded as the SDA theologian who was the most knowledgeable person in the entire sect on church history pertaining to Sabbath-Sunday issues. There was simply no one in the church more qualified to assess Ellen White's statements than Dr. Bacchiocchi. Here is his assessment: "Both statements just cited are inaccurate, because the secular power of the state did not influence or compel Christians to adopt Sunday during the second and third centuries. At that time the Roman emperors were rather hostile toward Christianity. They were more interested to suppress Christianity than to support church leaders in their promotion of Sunday worship. The bishop of Rome could not have resorted to 'the power of the state to compel the observance of Sunday as the Lord's Day.' Eventually, beginning with the fourth century, some Roman emperors actively supported the agenda of the church, but this was long after the establishment of Sunday observance.
"In my dissertation FROM SABBATH TO SUNDAY I have shown that the Bishop of Rome did indeed pioneer the change in the day of worship, but he did it without the help of the Roman government. What precipitated the need to change the Sabbath to Sunday, was the anti-Jewish and anti-Sabbath legislation promulgated in 135 by the Emperor Hadrian.

"After suppressing the Second Jewish revolt, known as the Barkokoba revolt (132-135), which caused many casualties, the Emperor Hadrian decided to deal with the Jewish problem in a radical way by suppressing the Jewish religion. Hitler was determined to liquidate the Jews as a people and Hadrian was committed to suppress Judaism as a religion. To accomplish this objective Hadrian outlawed in 135 the Jewish religion in general and Sabbathkeeping in particular.

"It was at this critical moment that the Bishop of Rome took the initiative to change the Sabbath to Sunday in order to show to the Roman government the Christians' separation from the Jews and their identification with the cycles of the Roman society. But, at this time the Bishop of Rome could not call upon 'the power of the state to compel the observance of Sunday as the Lord's Day,' because in the eyes of the Romans Christianity was still a suspect religion to be suppressed, rather than to be supported."

1. That is not a prophecy - not by Bacchiocchi and not by Ellen White. it is a review of known history.
2. You "invent a rule" that the test of a prophet is supposed to be the accuracy in which documented history is summarized - and that presumably everything they say at breakfast or in a letter or in a talk or a sermon comes directly from heaven and must be infallible. What it the Bible text you use for that new rule?
3. The text of your post does not support your position.

Your tiny quote of the book "Great Controversy" from page 447 - is from this larger text which shows TWO events not ONE.

The TWO events are:
1. It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its arrogant claims
2. its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as “the Lord’s day.”

Two different events - at two different times. Bacchiocchi "merely assumes" Ellen White meant to say they are one - but no one is claiming prophetic insight for Bacchiocchi - nor even first-hand knowledge of what Ellen White "meant to say".

Here is the full paragraph from which you give only a tiny snippet -- for evidence

While the worshipers of God will be especially distinguished by their regard for the fourth commandment,—since this is the sign of His creative power and the witness to His claim upon man’s reverence and homage,—the worshipers of the beast will be distinguished by their efforts to tear down the Creator’s memorial, to exalt the institution of Rome. It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its arrogant claims (see Appendix); and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as “the Lord’s day.” But the Bible points to the seventh day, and not to the first, as the Lord’s day. Said Christ: “The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” The fourth commandment declares: “The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord.” And by the prophet Isaiah the Lord designates it: “My holy day.” Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13. {GC 446.3}

A not-so-subtle detail key to your accusation in this example.

================================================ a more full quote for context

While the worshipers of God will be especially distinguished by their regard for the fourth commandment,—since this is the sign of His creative power and the witness to His claim upon man’s reverence and homage,—the worshipers of the beast will be distinguished by their efforts to tear down the Creator’s memorial, to exalt the institution of Rome. It was in behalf of the Sunday that popery first asserted its arrogant claims (see Appendix); and its first resort to the power of the state was to compel the observance of Sunday as “the Lord’s day.” But the Bible points to the seventh day, and not to the first, as the Lord’s day. Said Christ: “The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” The fourth commandment declares: “The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord.” And by the prophet Isaiah the Lord designates it: “My holy day.” Mark 2:28; Isaiah 58:13. {GC 446.3}

The claim so often put forth that Christ changed the Sabbath is disproved by His own words. In His Sermon on the Mount He said: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven,” Matthew 5:17-19. {GC 447.1}

.... plainly stated in publications issued by the American Tract Society and the American Sunday School Union. One of these works acknowledges “the complete silence of the New Testament so far as any explicit command for the Sabbath [Sunday, the first day of the week] or definite rules for its observance are concerned.”—George Elliott, The Abiding Sabbath, page 184. {GC 447.2}

Another says: “Up to the time of Christ’s death, no change had been made in the day;” and, “so far as the record shows, they [the apostles] did not ... give any explicit command enjoining the abandonment of the seventh-day Sabbath, and its observance on the first day of the week.”—A. E. Waffle, The Lord’s Day, pages 186-188. {GC 447.3}

Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church, and declare that Protestants by observing the Sunday are recognizing her power. In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed in obedience to the fourth commandment, this statement is made: “During the old law, Saturday was the day sanctified; but the church, instructed by Jesus Christ, and directed by the Spirit of God, has substituted Sunday for Saturday; so now we sanctify the first, not the seventh day. Sunday means, and now is, the day of the Lord.” {GC 447.4}

As the sign of the authority of the Catholic Church, papist writers cite “the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; ... because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin.”—Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, page 58. What then is the change of the Sabbath, but the sign, or mark, of the authority of the Roman Church—“the mark of the beast”? {GC 448.1}

====================== end quote

The Roman Catholic Church did NOT change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. This was done before Constantine had legalized the religion. While being a Christian--just one Church back then--was still punishable by death, the idea of the Lord's Day--Sunday--had replaced the Saturday Sabbath because Sunday is when Christ rose from the dead.

Back in those times, there was no Popery going on, and the Church did not have any means of using the power of the state, because it was still an illicit, illegal, religion, punishable by death.

Your wild claim about "no popery going on " prior to Constantine is not a claim that the RCC itself would agree with and we both know it.

The statement that changes came about gradually over time - has yet to be refuted by you.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

.... plainly stated in publications issued by the American Tract Society and the American Sunday School Union. One of these works acknowledges “the complete silence of the New Testament so far as any explicit command for the Sabbath [Sunday, the first day of the week] or definite rules for its observance are concerned.”—George Elliott, The Abiding Sabbath, page 184. {GC 447.2}

Another says: “Up to the time of Christ’s death, no change had been made in the day;” and, “so far as the record shows, they [the apostles] did not ... give any explicit command enjoining the abandonment of the seventh-day Sabbath, and its observance on the first day of the week.”—A. E. Waffle, The Lord’s Day, pages 186-188. {GC 447.3}

Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church, and declare that Protestants by observing the Sunday are recognizing her power. In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed in obedience to the fourth commandment, this statement is made: “During the old law, Saturday was the day sanctified; but the church, instructed by Jesus Christ, and directed by the Spirit of God, has substituted Sunday for Saturday; so now we sanctify the first, not the seventh day. Sunday means, and now is, the day of the Lord.” {GC 447.4}

"In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed..."

There is no such book. Rather, try the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Is this the book you say "does not exist"??

Catechism of the Christian Religion

Catechism of the Christian Religion

Are you arguing for alternate history - in "every" post?

 

[BobRyan]

Here is CCC958 958: Communion with the dead. "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and 'because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' she offers her suffrages for them.

Which means that unlike the Adventist Church, Both Catholic AND Orthodox believe that once a person's body dies, his soul will still be alive, and that we are still able to have some influence (neither CCC nor Orthodox say how much) on the final outcome of the soul's journey after death.

Certainly it is true that the Catholic and Orthodox churches believe in that "Communion with the Dead" idea - as if it were "a good thing" -- and the Adventist church does not.

But pretty much every other non-Catholic church would also agree that "Communion with the Dead" is not a good idea.

Adventists believe in the 1Thess 4 existence of the soul in the state that Paul refers to as "sleep" in 1 Thess 4 and most other churches reject it. But that does not mean that most other denominations think "Communion with the Dead" is a good thing. In fact they think it is not good.

We've been around a lot longer than any of the others. We are larger, more mature,

And the Bible including the NT writers were around before your denomination. We follow "them".

and, because we have the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we know a lot more than some crazed lady in the 1800's

Your words are the "fruits" of the spirit that guides you -- "by their fruits you shall know them" Matt 7.

I prefer the Holy Spirit mentioned in the Bible, and HIS teaching on prophecy that we find in 1 Corinthians 12.

For Christians - bible details matter. Name-calling on the other hand is worthless. It is the hay and stubble that is burned away for the true Bible student.

your signature claims you are "The unworthy Melkite Catholic Monk "

Your words confirm your claims.