Adolf Hitler - The World's Most Infamous Creationist

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Vaccine

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So the next time someone wants to equate you, as an atheist, with Hitler, I invite you to share Hitler's actual beliefs with them. Then just sit back and relax as the faithful endure spastic mental gymnastics trying to spin it all.

I don't doubt some people have (wrongly) equated Hitler with Atheists but I think people generally equate Hitler with eugenetics and social Darwinism. By the way, it was Darwins cousin, who also did experiments for Darwin's theory, that invented eugenetics. Hitler probably banned Darwins books for the same reason some fundamental Mormons dont like people reading a bible. One thing I'll say for Darwin, he was against slavery. You only shared one side of Hitler's beliefs, it isn't spin to examine both sides of that coin.
"Hitler, wrote Speer, viewed Christianity as the wrong religion for the "Germanic temperament":Speer wrote that Hitler would say: "You see it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"

"Hitler had been brought up a Catholic and was impressed by the organization and power of the Church. For Protestant clergy he felt only contempt: 'They are insignificant little people, submissive as dogs...[-] They have neither a religion you can take seriously nor a great position to defend like Rome'. It was the 'great position' of the Church that he respected; towards its teaching he showed only the sharpest hostility. In Hitler's eyes, Christianity was a religion fit only for slaves; he detested its ethics in particular. Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest."

Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


....
Finally, the faithful might argue that Hitler was not a real Christian. Although the average German, including my former father-in-law, himself a Christian, will readily tell you that Hitler was. And given Hitler's statements, I think it's safe to assume he would argue that he most certainly was a Christian, and that's the important aspect. Because whether Hitler was a Christian in someone else's view or according to their definition is beside the point; the point is that, as someone who believed in a god, Hitler was not an atheist.

I agree he was not an atheist. He identified himself as a Christian but his actions were anything but Christian. A few thousand chriatians pales in comparison of 6 million Jews, but he considered Christianity a branch of Judaism. His plans were to destroy Christianity after finishing Judaism.

Word for Word/The Case Against the Nazis; How Hitler's Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity - New York Times


"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions"
2 Timothy 4:3
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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lasthero

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When Books Burn: Lists of Banned Books, 1933-1939

Here's an actual list of criteria for books that are to be burned. Of specific importance is #6, under Guidelines from Die Bücherei.

6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (H�ckel).

Now, true, Darwin isn't on the list, but, judging from this, it would be safe to say that his writings weren't exactly welcomed, either. Pretty much any book that taught 'Darwinism' was to be banned, and that would, of course, include books that Darwin himself made.
 
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lasthero

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By the way, it was Darwins cousin, who also did experiments for Darwin's theory, that invented eugenetics

Interesting. Completely irrelevant, but interesting.

Hitler probably banned Darwins books for the same reason some fundamental Mormons dont like people reading a bible.

What would that be?
 
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biggles53

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Adolf Hitler was raised by an anticlerical, skeptic father and a devout Catholic mother. Baptized and confirmed as a child in Austria, he ceased to participate in the sacraments after childhood. In adulthood, Hitler became disdainful of Christianity, but in seeking out and in trying to retain power in Germany, he was prepared to set aside his views on religion out of political considerations. He repeatedly stated that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science. It is generally accepted by historians that Hitler's post war and long term goal was the eradication of Christianity in Germany. The adult Hitler did not believe in the Judeo-Christian notion of God, though various scholars consider his final religious position may have been a form of deism. Others consider him "atheist". The question of atheism is debated, however reputable Hitler biographers Ian Kershaw, Joachim Fest and Alan Bullock agree Hitler was anti-Christian.
source

To paraphrase willy Wonka, if Hitler was a Christian I'm a Vermiscious Knid. If anything Hitler was one of three prophesied anti-christs. He uses religion to his advantage. He was never a servant of God and he CERTAINLY didn't worship any Jewish born Jesus.

No personal offense intended, but the notion that Hitler was a Christian is the most profoundly stupid thing I've ever heard.

"I regard Christianity as the most fatal, seductive lie that has ever existed."—*Adolf Hitler.

“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” -- Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

The fact is, Hitler was an evil man who used God and religion to his advantage to manipulate people and stir their emotions. He was certainly not "of Christ.

Ummmm....tell me, if it's the "most profoundly stupid thing" to assert that Hitler was a theist, is it more or less stupid to use a fake quote to further that argument.....!?

The "seductive lie" quote was NOT Hitler's.......it was Nietzsche's....!!

Oh boy.......!
 
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biggles53

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Except that by ones actions, one shows who ones true God is. The only god Hitler worshiped was the God of this world, which certainly is no god at all, but a misguided being, just as anyone who claims to be christian and acts in opposition is not a true christian. You will be known by your works. Only an evolutionist would have the gall or ignorance, take your pick, to equate Hitler with true Christianity.

And yes, those popes that started the inquisition were not true Christians either. Nor were those burning witches, nor were those sitting on the council of Nicaea declaring a trinity of godhood when there is only one.

people can claim to be anything they want, but by their actions they will be known.

"True" Christianity.......??

Hoots mon........and what would that be laddie...?
 
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biggles53

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Are you saying that the christian God is not the God of this world?

What religious rituals did Hitler use to worship this supposed other god?



It isn't as if the God of the Old Testament was shy about ordering genocide.

And Samuel said to Saul, “The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Sam 15:1‑3)

Great point......as I mention in the morality thread, if you replaced the name "god" with Jack or Harry in the Old Testament, most fair people would describe that character as a psychopathic lunatic......
 
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USincognito

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BY MEG

If you haven't heard the Hitler arguments from a theist yet, I think it's safe to assume that you are in the minority. Here's a brief rundown of the most common accusations that the faithful enjoy slinging about der Führer in case you're not familiar with them:

1) Hitler was an atheist

2) Hitler was a faithful Darwinist

3) It was Darwin's ideals that drove Hitler to exterminate the Jews

Most atheists are aware that Hitler considered himself a Christian, a Roman Catholic to be precise, and know that the accusation of him being an atheist are as patently false as they are absurd. What many do not know is that Hitler was also a Creationist.

Yes, Hitler was a Creationist. And before the hypersensitive and pedantic among you get your fingers busy typing about how that doesn't mean all Creationists are evil or that Creationism leads to Nazism; thanks, I'm well-aware of that fact and that's not why I'm mentioning Hitler's beliefs. So take a deep breath, calm down, and enjoy the rest of this post, which is going to give you some helpful ammunition for shooting down the Hitler-Atheism myths.

Nearly a decade ago, I married a German and moved with him from America to Germany. And one of the first things I learned here, besides that there are people on this planet who consider beer an acceptable breakfast beverage, is that no matter how rotten and depraved the actions of the Third Reich appeared when we were taught about them in school and via the US media, the picture we get is still a sterilized version of Nazis' barbarity and beliefs.

As it turns out, the family I married into has a Nazi history, an unpleasant surprise as my (now ex) husband was anything but racist or antisemitic.

My former father-in-law, a highly intelligent person, speaks nearly perfect English, which he learned after being taken prisoner by Allied Forces in France and then shipped off to a work camp in Colorado. He never spoke about his Nazi upbringing and the war with his children and, given that the man has all the warmth and compassion of an iceberg, to his family it was obvious that they were not to mention it.

Then one Christmas when the old man had been hitting the schnapps, and shortly after I had been to visit a former concentration camp, Dachau, I couldn't stand not knowing anymore how anyone could support Hitler, much less be willing to fight for him. So I took advantage of father-in-law's inebriated state and asked.

You could have heard the proverbial pin drop; everyone fell silent.

The old man glared at me and stood up, growled at me to stay there in my seat, then left the room. I assumed he'd gone off to get something, and I knew it could take awhile for him to return. The home of my former parents-in-law is like a museum, complete with a basement full of archives.

As one might expect from people raised during the reign of the Third Reich, which had the organization necessary to round up many millions of people and exterminate them with astonishing efficiency, everything my parents-in-law did was recorded and filed, the belongings not needed for their daily lives never thrown away, and instead neatly stored and organized.

These people could tell you how much they spent on bread in April, 1952. That's not an exaggeration. So I shouldn't have been too surprised when the old man reappeared with large boxes and photo albums, and to find them stuffed with Nazi memorabilia, pamphlets, sew-on patches earned during father-in-law's time with the Nazi version of the Boy Scouts, the Hitler Youth, booklets on how being a good Nazi and being a good Christian were one and the same and the virtues of the Nazi policy of "Positive Christianity", photos of father-in-law in his Nazi uniform taken at Church...

One got the impression that my father-in-law had been waiting his whole life for someone to finally ask him about his past, to give him reason to talk about it. And talk he did, for hours...

I was still a Christian at the time, and I had never given any real thought to Hitler and his own religious beliefs, though if I had done so the last thing I would have considered him was Christian. And the last thing I wanted to admit to myself was that Hitler had been a devout Christian.

But there was a pile of evidence staring me in the face and my father-in-law enthusiastically showing me through it. In his own words, Hitler believed...

"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them."

-Hitler in a speech on April 12, 1922.

Hitler made similar remarks in his book, "Mein Kampf", which was written when he was young. So he must have changed his mind and lost sight of his faith later, right?

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and co-operation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has

been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."

No, that isn't from a modern day, Republican speech; that's what Hitler said in a statement in 1933.

And even more surprising was the Nazi banned book list; Darwin's "On the Origins of Species" and any book deemed to support evolution it were on it.

"The most marvelous proof of the superiority of Man, which puts man ahead of the animals, is the fact that he understands that there must be a Creator."

"The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger."

Nope, those aren't quotes from Ray Comfort or Kent Hovind as one might understandably assume; Hitler said those things in his book, "Mein Kampf."

As a Christian, I still had no trouble incorporating evolution into my beliefs; I saw evolution as God's method of producing all of the species we see on Earth.

To me, Darwin's book being on the banned list didn't make any sense.

What about the Nazi breeding programs? That's about evolution, isn't it?

Well, no. Hitler's program didn't involve evolution. As my father-in-law explained, Hitler prescribed to a belief called Eugenics, which is breeding for a superior (Aryan) race.

If you're familiar with evolution and how it works, you realize that Eugenics is the exact opposite of evolution.

In evolution, the larger and more dynamic the gene pool, the better.

The more genetic diversity you have, the less likely a disease or a gene defect is going to wipe out the entire species. More genes = more likely to adapt and survive. And evolution is not a ladder; there is no end goal, no perfect being, only a being well-suited for its current living environment.

In Eugenics, the aim is to breed a "superior" version of a species; to lessen genetic diversity in favor of traits deemed to be preferable.

Purebred dogs are an example of why Eugenics is a really bad idea and how it runs contrary to evolution. The Rhodesian Ridgeback is thought to be superior when it has an especially large ridge on its back. Due to breeders selecting animals for their ridges, it's not uncommon now for the dogs to be born with ridges so large that they develop open canals that lead from the surface of their skin straight to their spinal column, resulting in a horribly painful, open wound directly on their bare spine.

"From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today."

- Hitler in his book "Tischgespräche"

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith."

- from a speech Hitler gave on April 26, 1933.

Did I mention that school prayer was mandatory under the Nazis? If I wanted to commit the logical fallacy of guilt by association comparing Hitler's beliefs in a Christian nation, family values, creationism, and school prayer to America's modern Religious Right, this would be an ideal opportunity for it. But that would bring me down to their level. Oops. Guess I already drew the parallels. Oh well.

In his own words, Hitler was a devout Christian and he was a Creationist.

"For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties."

- Hitler in his book "Mein Kampf"

So the next time someone wants to equate you, as an atheist, with Hitler, I invite you to share Hitler's actual beliefs with them. Then just sit back and relax as the faithful endure spastic mental gymnastics trying to spin it all.

Looking back on that discussion with my father-in-law, considering the information I've gathered about Hitler myself since becoming fluent in German, and combined with my loss of faith, I'm actually not surprised anymore that Hitler was a Christian and a Creationist. If someone is delusional enough to think they're on a mission from God to commit genocide, it isn't much of a stretch for them to be delusional enough to believe that Adam and Eve probably saddled up a triceratops when they had to make long journeys, is it?

So why aren't we told about Hitler's enthusiasm for Jesus in America? After all, it's common knowledge in Europe. Funny how there's little to no mention of Hitler's religious beliefs in the average school curriculum or documentary, while we learn at length about Hitler's other beliefs.

Economics and politics played huge roles in the Nazis coming to power.

But so did religion. Anyone who denies or ignores that fact is enabling a repeat.

Finally, the faithful might argue that Hitler was not a real Christian. Although the average German, including my former father-in-law, himself a Christian, will readily tell you that Hitler was. And given Hitler's statements, I think it's safe to assume he would argue that he most certainly was a Christian, and that's the important aspect. Because whether Hitler was a Christian in someone else's view or according to their definition is beside the point; the point is that, as someone who believed in a god, Hitler was not an atheist.
So, given the information above, do you think having been a Christian that Hitler's view represents Jesus and His teachings?

Pleast don't quote a giant post in it's entirety and respond with a single sentence.
 
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USincognito

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And yes, those popes that started the inquisition were not true Christians either. Nor were those burning witches, nor were those sitting on the council of Nicaea declaring a trinity of godhood when there is only one.

Off topic, but it's worth pointing out. You self-identify as a Christian (with the non-denominational faith icon) and what allows people to self-identify as Christians on CF is an acceptance of the Nicean Creed.
http://www.christianforums.com/rules/#faq_sof_creed
The flipside of that is CF recognizes those who accept the Nicean Creed as Christians and it's against forum rules to declare anyone who abides by the forum statement of faith not to be one.

You might just want to keep this in mind.
 
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USincognito

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I don't see Darwin on the list.

Hitler was more inspired by Joseph Lister than Charles Darwin.
weltparasit.jpg
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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lasthero said:
Now, true, Darwin isn't on the list, but, judging from this, it would be safe to say that his writings weren't exactly welcomed, either. Pretty much any book that taught 'Darwinism' was to be banned, and that would, of course, include books that Darwin himself made.

Except it didn't say "Darwinism", it said "primitive Darwinism and Monism". Whatever that was, Haeckel, rather, than Darwin was listed as the prime example here, which suggests that it wasn't simply talking about evolution. Anyway, if Darwin's books were pulled from library shelves, like those of Marx or Freud, that should be a simple matter of historical record. It's not as though Darwin was too obscure an author.

I'll also note the quote from Mein Kampf in the OP:

The precondition for this does not lie in associating superior and inferior, but in the total victory of the former. The stronger must dominate and not blend with the weaker, thus sacrificing his own greatness. Only the born weakling can view this as cruel, but he after all is only a weak and limited man; for if this law did not prevail, any conceivable higher development of organic living beings would be unthinkable.
The consequence of this racial purity, universally valid in Nature, is not only the sharp outward delimitation of the various races, but their uniform character in themselves. The fox is always a fox, the goose a goose, the tiger a tiger, etc., and the difference can lie at most in the varying measure of force, strength, intelligence, dexterity, endurance, etc., of the individual specimens. But you will never find a fox who in his inner attitude might, for example, show humanitarian tendencies toward geese, as similarly there is no cat with a friendly inclination toward mice.


The passage in bold is the passage the OP quotes out of context. First, it is not by any stretch of the imagination an attack on evolution when read in context. Second, the underlined passage just one paragraph earlier, seems to assume evolution. What can "higher development of organic living beings" by natural law be, if not evolution?

Hitler was more inspired by Joseph Lister than Charles Darwin.

How much he was inspired by Darwin isn't what I'm talking about. Darwin has been cited by political ideologues of all stripes to support their case. What I was addressing was the OP's rather bizarre attempt to paint Hitler as some kind of American-style fundamentalist, which would have been quite a rare thing indeed in Central Europe of his day.
 
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biggles53

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I'll also note the quote from Mein Kampf in the OP:

The precondition for this does not lie in associating superior and inferior, but in the total victory of the former. The stronger must dominate and not blend with the weaker, thus sacrificing his own greatness. Only the born weakling can view this as cruel, but he after all is only a weak and limited man; for if this law did not prevail, any conceivable higher development of organic living beings would be unthinkable.
The consequence of this racial purity, universally valid in Nature, is not only the sharp outward delimitation of the various races, but their uniform character in themselves. The fox is always a fox, the goose a goose, the tiger a tiger, etc., and the difference can lie at most in the varying measure of force, strength, intelligence, dexterity, endurance, etc., of the individual specimens. But you will never find a fox who in his inner attitude might, for example, show humanitarian tendencies toward geese, as similarly there is no cat with a friendly inclination toward mice.

The passage in bold is the passage the OP quotes out of context. First, it is not by any stretch of the imagination an attack on evolution when read in context. Second, the underlined passage just one paragraph earlier, seems to assume evolution. What can "higher development of organic living beings" by natural law be, if not evolution?

No, it doesn't assume evolution.....its a statement about so-called 'racial purity'.....
 
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lasthero

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Anyway, if Darwin's books were pulled from library shelves, like those of Marx or Freud, that should be a simple matter of historical record. It's not as though Darwin was too obscure an author.

How do you assume what should and should not be a simple matter of historical record? Many things about that time and specifics are constantly disputed.
 
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KWCrazy

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It matters not what others think as to Hitler's Christianity. That Hitler affirmed Christianity is what matters.
Hitler also affirmed evolution, so every evolutionist is a Hitler, right?
Hitler also made a treaty with Stalin, so Germany and the Soviet Union we allies, right?
Hitler believed that the Japanese were almost as low on the evolutionary scale as Jews, which is why he refused to allow them into the Axis, right?
Hitler believed that the Aryan race was the most evolved and other races were sub-human. It was therefor perfectly acceptable for him to commit genocide, right?

I hate to burst your bubble, but Hitler was a liar who used words to motivate and manipulated. He never demonstrated any religion whatsoever, though he used it to his advantage whenever possible. Hos view of God was closer to Odin, who delighted in war and conquest. Hitler thought the elimination of Jews and the subjugation of non Aryans was how the world was supposed to be. He was an unwitting servant of Satan, who was no doubt delighted by the actions of the Third Reicht.

Hitler's future is eternal damnation. The wise man look to Jesus for truth, not Adolph Shickelgruber.
 
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lasthero

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Why is it everything I think, do or say around here is either low or stupid?

I've never accused you of either before. Personally, I thought you were too above this sort of thing - from what I've seen of you around the forum, while I don't agree with everything you say or even most of it, you at least seem respectful, for the most part. This is a bit disappointing.

The 'races' used in that title is in an entirely different context than what Hitler would have been using in Mein Kampf. Darwin uses 'race' pretty much like a synonym for breed, which was a common usage for the word at the time. For instance, he refers to different 'races' of cabbage.

Origin of Species barely even mentions humans and never gets into whether they evolved or not.
 
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AV1611VET

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I've never accused you of either before. Personally, I thought you were too above this sort of thing - from what I've seen of you around the forum, while I don't agree with everything you say or even most of it, you at least seem respectful, for the most part. This is a bit disappointing.

The 'races' used in that title is in an entirely different context than what Hitler would have been using in Mein Kampf. Darwin uses 'race' pretty much like a synonym for breed, which was a common usage for the word at the time. For instance, he refers to different 'races' of cabbage.

Origin of Species barely even mentions humans and never gets into whether they evolved or not.

Yes, I know what Darwin meant by "races."

I've been through this a hundred times.

I've been using that segment of the title of his book here for years, and have had this pointed out to me several times.

Notice none of the old-timers spoke up?

So why do I still use it?

Why do others still say the Bible teaches a flat earth? geocentrism? etc.?
 
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lasthero

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Notice none of the old-timers spoke up?

I don't even think any of them are on. And I only replied an hour after you posted, so it's not like it was sitting there all day.

Why do others still say the Bible teaches a flat earth? geocentrism? etc.?

Why do you feel they do and why do you feel that makes doing basically the same thing okay?
 
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