Adolf Hitler - The World's Most Infamous Creationist

[HitchSlap]

Five generals?

For a guy who thinks he knows so much about the Bible, you don't know much about the Bible.

"The Jewish/Protestant version of Daniel (the Greek and Catholic version contains additional material) divides into two parts, a set of tales in chapters 1–6 in which Daniel and his companions demonstrate the superiority of their God, and the series of visions making up chapters 7–12. Traditionally ascribed to Daniel himself, the modern scholarly consensus is that the book is pseudonymous, the stories of the first half legendary in origin, and the visions of the second the product of anonymous authors in the Maccabean period (2nd century BCE)."

 

[AV1611VET]

For a guy who thinks he knows so much about the Bible, you don't know much about the Bible.

"The Jewish/Protestant version of Daniel (the Greek and Catholic version contains additional material) divides into two parts, a set of tales in chapters 1–6 in which Daniel and his companions demonstrate the superiority of their God, and the series of visions making up chapters 7–12. Traditionally ascribed to Daniel himself, the modern scholarly consensus is that the book is pseudonymous, the stories of the first half legendary in origin, and the visions of the second the product of anonymous authors in the Maccabean period (2nd century BCE)."

Groovy.

I'm neither Jewish, nor Protestant.

And I won't even ask you for a link to what you probably copy & pasted, because I don't even care.

 

[Freodin]

Daniel 8:20-21 (ESV)
As for the ram that you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king.

Do you really think that this "names four successive empires each of which succeeds one of the others in power."

I'd check my maths, if I were you.

 

[HitchSlap]

... because I don't even care.

Yes, I know.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, I know.

I doubt it.

Or you wouldn't have made the rookie mistake of thinking I was a Protestant.

 

[Freodin]

Groovy.

I'm neither Jewish, nor Protestant.

And I won't even ask you for a link to what you probably copy & pasted, because I don't even care.

Yep, that is the problem. You don't care. The plausible - and backed up with evidence - alternative to the "prophecy" is that these verses are not written in the time of the babylonian exil, but several hundred years later.

So the author did not present some fantastically accurate predictions of future events, but simply related events from his own time and history.

I know that you cannot accept that, even consider that. De Nial, it seems, is not only a river in Egypt.

 

[Oncedeceived]

What was? The reason why God send an earthquake? Or did the pressure from the US cause the earthquake directly. Did California exert more pressure than, say, Oregon or Alabama? Did the people killed and injured exert more pressure than those who were not? Were they more "guilty" than Clinton and Assad themselves?

The United States have tried to get Israel to give up land for peace. They have been very instrumental in dividing Israel. Throughout history God has brought punishment against those who have tried to either harm Israel or divide the land that God has given them.

The nations are punished for the leadership they put into power.

So what do you think was the reason for that earthquake?

I think that there is convincing evidence to support God's warning:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and be thou a blessing.
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse; and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.'

"... there will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and because they have divided My land." [Joel 3:2]

Here: "We do not have to fear God's punishment or hell. We are washed clean and can stand before God without blemish. " Post #220.

This is referring to after death.

Or perhaps you just mean that you simply do not "fear" the things that God might do to you in order to "warn" or "punish" America?

Again, I was referring to after death.

From the same post: "... I don't have the answer to that." And many other posts to that regard.

Didn't find it.

"If He is all moral then immorality is real." That does not follow.
" If immortality exists then justice and mercy must as well." That doesn't either.

It stands to reason if moral exists so does immorality. IF God is moral and must have only moral live with Him, justice must exist and if justice exists then there is reason to punish, if there is reason to punish but HE allows that to be covered by Christ there must be a way to have mercy upon those who are under punishment and deserve justice to be had against them. So if God is moral He must punish as justice is necessary, then He shows mercy in allowing for a account paid in full to those who would be punished.

 

[Freodin]

I doubt it.

Or you wouldn't have made the rookie mistake of thinking I was a Protestant.

You are aware that the KJV is a protestant bible version?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Yep, that is the problem. You don't care. The plausible - and backed up with evidence - alternative to the "prophecy" is that these verses are not written in the time of the babylonian exil, but several hundred years later.

So the author did not present some fantastically accurate predictions of future events, but simply related events from his own time and history.

I know that you cannot accept that, even consider that. De Nial, it seems, is not only a river in Egypt.

You are wrong about Daniel being written after the events written about. The Dead sea Scrolls have Daniel in them which means they were written prior to the event.

 

[HitchSlap]

I doubt it.

Or you wouldn't have made the rookie mistake of thinking I was a Protestant.

A. I never said you were Protestant.

2. I don't care what you call yourself.

3. You don't know as much as you think you do about the Bible, or you wouldn't have made the rookie mistake of citing an anonymous passage in an archaic myth as somehow being valid history. As if human mammals have psychic fortune telling capabilities.

Really, we're all adults here, knock it off.

 

[HitchSlap]

You are wrong about Daniel being written after the events written about. The Dead sea Scrolls have Daniel in them which means they were written prior to the event.

Nope.

 

[Freodin]

The United States have tried to get Israel to give up land for peace. They have been very instrumental in dividing Israel. Throughout history God has brought punishment against those who have tried to either harm Israel or divide the land that God has given them.

The nations are punished for the leadership they put into power.

"The nations" are punished? How? I really dislike the using of such generalizing terms to divert the attention from the humans that should be at focus.

Or do you think that all those who were killed and injured at this earthquake voted for Clinton? No Republican was hurt or killed?

Do you really think it is justice when arbitrary bystanders are killed for something someone else did?

This is referring to after death.

Again, I was referring to after death.

So, do you consider the possibility of being harmed, killed or otherwise negatively affected when God decided to punish the USA next time for something you were not responsible for?

It stands to reason if moral exists so does immorality.

No, that does not stand to reason at all. If moral exists, then moral exists. Immorality does not necessarily follow from morality. It needs a special allowance for going against morality, which is not made necessary by the simple existence of morality.

IF God is moral and must have only moral live with Him, justice must exist...

Does not follow either. Justice does nothing to further morality. And it does nothing to eradicate immorality.

...and if justice exists then there is reason to punish,...

Doesn't follow but for an extremely limited concept of "justice"... which most people do not use.

...if there is reason to punish but HE allows that to be covered by Christ there must be a way to have mercy upon those who are under punishment and deserve justice to be had against them.

A concept of justice so limited that it seems not even your God uses it. But even here the necessity of "mercy" does not follow from your premises.

So if God is moral He must punish as justice is necessary, then He shows mercy in allowing for a account paid in full to those who would be punished.

Yep, as I said: that makes no sense.

 

[Freodin]

You are wrong about Daniel being written after the events written about. The Dead sea Scrolls have Daniel in them which means they were written prior to the event.

The dead sea scrolls were written after the events. The are dated from 250 BCE to 70 CE, with most of them from 100 BCE to 30 CE.

 

[HitchSlap]

The dead sea scrolls were written after the events. The are dated from 250 BCE to 70 CE, with most of them from 100 BCE to 30 CE.

Leave it to the atheists to school the Christians on their Bible.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Nope.

Daniel, date of, authorship date

 

[Oncedeceived]

Leave it to the atheists to school the Christians on their Bible.

See link.

 

[Oncedeceived]

The dead sea scrolls were written after the events. The are dated from 250 BCE to 70 CE, with most of them from 100 BCE to 30 CE.

Yes. True. See link provided.

 

[HitchSlap]

Daniel, date of, authorship date

Didn't click, but lemme' guess, article written by a non-scholar asserting it's true because we reeeeeeeally want it to be true?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yep, that is the problem. You don't care. The plausible - and backed up with evidence - alternative to the "prophecy" is that these verses are not written in the time of the babylonian exil, but several hundred years later.

Now that's interesting ... in view of the fact that there was a 400-year period of time between the Testaments where God sent a unique famine:

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

"Several hundred years after the Babylon exile," as you put it, would have put the book of Daniel right square within that famine.

In addition, it would have made Daniel, not Malachi, the last book of the Old Testament.

 

[Oncedeceived]

"The nations" are punished? How? I really dislike the using of such generalizing terms to divert the attention from the humans that should be at focus.

Ok, but your dislike for or against it is not really relevant.

Or do you think that all those who were killed and injured at this earthquake voted for Clinton? No Republican was hurt or killed?

Each case is determined by God. Is the person an atheist, a theist or whatever is known by God. Are Christians harmed, sometimes. Yes. Could I be, yes. We are responsible for electing our leaders. Sometimes Christians like anyone else do not vote the correct way according to God and have to take the consequences. Just like we are seeing today.

Do you really think it is justice when arbitrary bystanders are killed for something someone else did?

I think that God is moral, I think He does things in a moral way. There may be a completely moral reason for such things to happen. I am not God and I do not have the intelligence, the ability to know all things and how that affects those people or those around them. I also have a different outlook on death. If I live I must live my life doing what good I have the opportunity to do. IF I die, I live again. If I misunderstand God and what He is I find I am wrong. IF I die and there is no heaven or hell. I won't know it. It is what it is. However, I know that the Christian God exists and I believe I have reason to be confident that there is life after death and that there is a heaven.

So, do you consider the possibility of being harmed, killed or otherwise negatively affected when God decided to punish the USA next time for something you were not responsible for?

In a way I am responsible. I allow for things I know are immoral to God without being active to stop them. So I am not innocent, I am covered by Jesus so my soul will live on and I wll go to heaven, but I reap consequences for my not actively stopping what God feels is immoral or for sin I do in my life.

No, that does not stand to reason at all. If moral exists, then moral exists. Immorality does not necessarily follow from morality. It needs a special allowance for going against morality, which is not made necessary by the simple existence of morality.

If moral exists so does immoral. What you said doesn't make sense.

Does not follow either. Justice does nothing to further morality. And it does nothing to eradicate immorality.

Do you think those who died in the Holocaust don't deserve justice?

Doesn't follow but for an extremely limited concept of "justice"... which most people do not use.

I don't know what you mean.

A concept of justice so limited that it seems not even your God uses it. But even here the necessity of "mercy" does not follow from your premises.

Why?

Yep, as I said: that makes no sense.

I bet it does to the Theists here.