Adam and Eve..

[Neogaia777]

An allegory can be a real event that teaches us some overarching truth.

Or some overarching truth that tells us about a real event or person, place, thing, (reality) or truth, or otherwise real thing...

God Bless!

 

[JacksBratt]

And Jesus is not an allegory,

Really.... let me play the devil's advocate for a second.. would ya?

How do you know that Jesus is not allegorical and Mythical?

What difference, between the story of the flood, Jonah and the fish, the story of Job, the 6 literal days of creation... and other things that people just cannot accept that were real events....and the life, death and resurrection of Christ?

They are all in scripture... different books and chapters.... different time periods... all are super natural....

What gives?

I'll tell ya.... the only thing that changes... the only thing that makes people say that Christ is real.... the only reason that they will toss all the events of the bible out into the world of "fairy tails" except the life of Christ.... one thing...

Their eternal life of their soul depends on it.... PERIOD.

People hold on to that part of the bible.. like it is as real as the Super Bowl....

When... in all reality... all of the Bible is just as real, just as solid, just as truthful....

It is sad.. but true.. that Christians are arguing over whether Adam and Eve were real people.

I'm sure that Christ is up there with tears in His eyes and shaking His head....

 

[Neogaia777]

Really.... let me play the devil's advocate for a second.. would ya?

How do you know that Jesus is not allegorical and Mythical?

What difference, between the story of the flood, Jonah and the fish, the story of Job, the 6 literal days of creation... and other things that people just cannot accept that were real events....and the life, death and resurrection of Christ?

They are all in scripture... different books and chapters.... different time periods... all are super natural....

What gives?

I'll tell ya.... the only thing that changes... the only thing that makes people say that Christ is real.... the only reason that they will toss all the events of the bible out into the world of "fairy tails" except the life of Christ.... one thing...

Their eternal life of their soul depends on it.... PERIOD.

People hold on to that part of the bible.. like it is as real as the Super Bowl....

When... in all reality... all of the Bible is just as real, just as solid, just as truthful....

It is sad.. but true.. that Christians are arguing over whether Adam and Eve were real people.

I'm sure that Christ is up there with tears in His eyes and shaking His head....

Logic says that Jesus was a real person, there are other records besides the Bible that testify to Jesus being a real person at that time, even some, doing what he was doing... There is a lot of proof...

And when you have to accept that he was a real person, then you wonder about maybe accepting some other things about him as well, and then, well, who knows...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Really.... let me play the devil's advocate for a second.. would ya?

How do you know that Jesus is not allegorical and Mythical?

I really do sincerely feel like I'm following the evidence...? But, is that faith...?

God Bless!

 

[Halbhh]

So, what, if anything, in the Bible, is real..

So far:

1/ Adam and Eve... allegory.
2/ Literal 6 days... allegory.
3/ World wide flood... allegory.
4/ Nephilime offspring of Humans/Angel Hybrid.... incorrect... was Seth's kids.
5/ No rapture
6/ Tribulation is happening today.


What is left for us to determine as real.... Let's hope that the Gospel and the life of Christ is real....

But it's all real. All of it.

Utterly real.

And that's regardless of what is metaphor and what concrete, or what mix of the two. For instance the parables are about the most central and real truths of existence, life. More true than general knowledge we think of as 'fact'.

(for instance, I've directly measured the speed of light in a sophomore physics lab, and I'm especially confident in the factual reality of number for the speed of light in a vacuum to high precision, so that's a very strong fact to me. But the truths Christ tells me in the parables are more essentially crucial and reliable and solid and real. I know what He says will happen. While there could be in contrast some quirk about the speed of light we don't understand yet, His truths I can feel more confident in even more than Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism. God could decide to toss this physics, and Maxwell's equations with it, next week. But Christ's words will be true literally forever.)

-----
(btw, just my view, but I would not assume #5 is correct. Nor #6, though I don't know for sure whether we could be near the beginning moments or lead in)

 

[SkyWriting]

When talking with nonbelievers I do not press the point about Adam and Eve being real, since the main points of the story hold true even if it is just a story.

The points made in the story are accurate. I don't know if my vision
is correct in any case.

 

[Archivist]

I voted other because I view it as an allegory, not a myth. They are two different things. I do not believe that there was an actual Adam and Eve. Others are, of course, entitled to their own views.

 

[Tutorman]

That depends on the context of the conversation. In this thread, we are discussing whether Adam and Eve are real, which makes it the historical event as the focus.

Exactly. It is the historical focus that is important.

 

[Halbhh]

So, what, if anything, in the Bible, is real..

So far:

1/ Adam and Eve... allegory.
2/ Literal 6 days... allegory.
3/ World wide flood... allegory.
4/ Nephilime offspring of Humans/Angel Hybrid.... incorrect... was Seth's kids.
5/ No rapture
6/ Tribulation is happening today.


What is left for us to determine as real.... Let's hope that the Gospel and the life of Christ is real....

This song is really great in a way for this discussion, about the truth and what is real, and knowing the Universe is over 13 billion years old only makes me love this song more (God spoke physics itself into existence I think, and therefore the Universe unfolded, like a flower from a seed, inevitably, perfectly); the deeper messages it's about are such a great way to see how it all is together, how scripture from the old to the new is a whole thing, one together, a thread all the way through. I just love this song.

(just in case it helps someone, I personally think that Adam literally existed, and the Garden, and the choice, that Adam was the first human to have an individual spirit/soul, breathed into him. But see, the message of Genesis 2 and 3 isn't just some history, like 'what was the name of the first man' or such, not at all. It's about profoundly important things we need to immediately apply right now in our lives, about how to love our spouses, how to trust God, and more. So the history details like when and where aren't something we have to know at all, but we need to totally read with an open heart and mind so that we hear it when Eve is from Adam's rib, and that really sinks into us, and other things in these powerful chapters.)

 

[RaymondG]

Really.... let me play the devil's advocate for a second.. would ya?

How do you know that Jesus is not allegorical and Mythical?

What difference, between the story of the flood, Jonah and the fish, the story of Job, the 6 literal days of creation... and other things that people just cannot accept that were real events....and the life, death and resurrection of Christ?

They are all in scripture... different books and chapters.... different time periods... all are super natural....

What gives?

I'll tell ya.... the only thing that changes... the only thing that makes people say that Christ is real.... the only reason that they will toss all the events of the bible out into the world of "fairy tails" except the life of Christ.... one thing...

Their eternal life of their soul depends on it.... PERIOD.

People hold on to that part of the bible.. like it is as real as the Super Bowl....

When... in all reality... all of the Bible is just as real, just as solid, just as truthful....

It is sad.. but true.. that Christians are arguing over whether Adam and Eve were real people.

I'm sure that Christ is up there with tears in His eyes and shaking His head....

Why does your eternal soul depend on the historical figure? If the story was allegorical, then it would still explain the way to salvation....only thing is that you would need to seek and find the way. Jesus is the way. Therefore believing in the history, stops one from seeking the way....thereby hindering the very salvation one believes they found in the belief of the story......

 

[RaymondG]

Exactly. It is the historical focus that is important.

Important this you and this thread only, or are you implying that is it important to the life of a Christian in general?

 

[JacksBratt]

Logic says that Jesus was a real person,

Look, I am a firm believer in Jesus Christ and full well believe in His death, burial and resurrection. I believe everything about His live as it is recorded in the Bible...

However... nothing.. I mean nothing is "logical" about Him.
1/ Born of a virgin.
2/ Arguing with the high priests at age 12 and winning the arguments.
3/ Walked on water.
4/ Fed over 5000 people with five loaves and two fish.
5/ 12.... count them.... 12 full baskets of leftovers from the five loaves and two fish.
6/ Water into wine... instantly and the best wine they had.
7/ every other miracle that He did...

All this adds up to... unbelievable, illogical, super natural and the closest thing to not being real.

So, if all this is true... and all of us believe it... to be Christian.... then... why is the rest of the supernatural events called "fairy tales"?

 

[JacksBratt]

But it's all real. All of it.

Utterly real.

And that's regardless of what is metaphor and what concrete, or what mix of the two. For instance the parables are about the most central and real truths of existence, life. More true than general knowledge we think of as 'fact'.

(for instance, I've directly measured the speed of light in a sophomore physics lab, and I'm especially confident in the factual reality of number for the speed of light in a vacuum to high precision, so that's a very strong fact to me. But the truths Christ tells me in the parables are more essentially crucial and reliable and solid and real. I know what He says will happen. While there could be in contrast some quirk about the speed of light we don't understand yet, His truths I can feel more confident in even more than Maxwell's equations for electromagnetism. God could decide to toss this physics, and Maxwell's equations with it, next week. But Christ's words will be true literally forever.)

-----
(btw, just my view, but I would not assume #5 is correct. Nor #6, though I don't know for sure whether we could be near the beginning moments or lead in)

I believe all of it is as true as the sunrise today....

It is appalling to me that people write off the other things... because some scientist says it's not possible... For goodness sake... nothing in the bible of any importance is possible in the natural world.

So... don't write it off as a "fairy tail and then tell me that Christ died on a cross and came back to life and floated up to heaven on a cloud.... sheeesh.

 

[JacksBratt]

Why does your eternal soul depend on the historical figure? If the story was allegorical, then it would still explain the way to salvation....only thing is that you would need to seek and find the way. Jesus is the way. Therefore believing in the history, stops one from seeking the way....thereby hindering the very salvation one believes they found in the belief of the story......

........wha.........?

 

[Neogaia777]

Look, I am a firm believer in Jesus Christ and full well believe in His death, burial and resurrection. I believe everything about His live as it is recorded in the Bible...

However... nothing.. I mean nothing is "logical" about Him.
1/ Born of a virgin.
2/ Arguing with the high priests at age 12 and winning the arguments.
3/ Walked on water.
4/ Fed over 5000 people with five loaves and two fish.
5/ 12.... count them.... 12 full baskets of leftovers from the five loaves and two fish.
6/ Water into wine... instantly and the best wine they had.
7/ every other miracle that He did...

All this adds up to... unbelievable, illogical, super natural and the closest thing to not being real.

So, if all this is true... and all of us believe it... to be Christian.... then... why is the rest of the supernatural events called "fairy tales"?

Depends, Some say the supernatural is just a higher form of, or comes from a higher form of, higher natural... But the steps in coming to accept something like, or that are from, accepting Jesus as a real historical figure, to things like "this", I do not know...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

All this adds up to... unbelievable, illogical, super natural and the closest thing to not being real.

Yet it is real... and we must fit that into our logic also... The miracles, and miraculous or "supernatural" miracles, signs, and wonders were real (and that happens somewhere in the middle) anyway, it's real...

God Bless!

 

[Halbhh]

I believe all of it is as true as the sunrise today....

It is appalling to me that people write off the other things... because some scientist says it's not possible... For goodness sake... nothing in the bible of any importance is possible in the natural world.

So... don't write it off as a "fairy tail and then tell me that Christ died on a cross and came back to life and floated up to heaven on a cloud.... sheeesh.

Yes, and if you like message me to come and help for any such person thinking that I'd be glad to, since I should often be able to talk to those under some misimpressions about what is in the Old Testament, and help them see that (proven) science and scripture fit together perfectly well.

 

[Halbhh]

Depends, Some say the supernatural is just a higher form of, or comes from a higher form of, higher natural... But the steps in coming to accept something like, or that are from, accepting Jesus as a real historical figure, to things like "this", I do not know...?

God Bless!

Sometimes I wonder in awe on how Christ Jesus is the Word of God incarnate, in how it also suggests that literally He could additionally be somehow...in some way I cannot yet conceive, perhaps above mortal human understanding even until the afterlife (maybe) that He could somehow be in some way a vehicle or personification of physics even. I mean as an attribute. As one attribute. Not that I know, or could even understand. But I wonder. I don't think I understand it yet, but I'm already in awe about that possibility He carries or has been involved in all of physics, meaning all that exists (which is simply physics in action) throughout all the Universe then also.

 

[akaDaScribe]

According to the Bible, how did the first 5 books of the Bible come about?

 

[Neogaia777]

Sometimes I wonder in awe on how Christ Jesus is the Word of God incarnate, in how it also suggests that literally He could additionally be somehow...in some way I cannot yet conceive, perhaps above mortal human understanding even until the afterlife (maybe) that He could somehow be in some way a vehicle or personification of physics even. I mean as an attribute. As one attribute. Not that I know, or could even understand. But I wonder. I don't think I understand it yet, but I'm already in awe about that possibility He carries or has been involved in all of physics, meaning all that exists (which is simply physics in action) throughout all the Universe then also.

Yes, awesome,

God Bless!