Adam and Eve

[Cabal]

Called it \o/

Nuh-uh, he came back!

Un/threading is a pretty fun sport!

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

How does that old adage go? Oh yeah, "ask a dumb question..."

 

[Thistlethorn]

Nuh-uh, he came back!

Un/threading is a pretty fun sport!

Still gonna call that a successful call. Two post margin, even.

 

[Cabal]

Still gonna call that a successful call. Two post margin, even.

Yeah, I guess I'll allow it.

 

[Witchy Bee]

Adam and Eve were Vikings.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Do Vikings have belly buttons?

 

[Thistlethorn]

Do Vikings have belly buttons?

I think it's right there above his belt.

 

[Wedjat]

...just barely. it's more like a belly speck

 

[godsmission]

You must admit though Adam and Eve is a lovely story for children at bedtime.


The question raised here the other day has still not been answered,
why was there a tree of life in a garden where there was no death?

 

[Freodin]

You must admit though Adam and Eve is a lovely story for children at bedtime.


The question raised here the other day has still not been answered,
why was there a tree of life in a garden where there was no death?

Obviously, there was no death, BECAUSE there was a tree of life in the garden.

Doesn´t answer the question of course what would have happened had they not eaten at all.
Or, if you accept AV´s hypothesis that the laws of thermodynamics were not installed before the fall, what did happen to all the fruits the ate.

 

[Wedjat]

Genesis 4:22

And the Lord God said,'The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.'

Clearly Adam would have died eventually anyway, the only reason there wasn't death in Eden before the fall was because Adam and Eve stuffed it up so early on.

 

[godsmission]

The creationist motto should read:
Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive.
Sir Walter Scott.

 

[Jazer]

There's the Adam and Eve of the Bible, then there's the Adam and Eve of science.
The difference is that the Adam and Eve of Science did not live at the same time. The Adam and the Eve in the Bible lived at the same time and their story begins in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Mike Elphick]

Did y-Adam and mtDNA Eve have belly buttons?

What a silly question!

For those who are not familiar with Y-chromosome Adam and mitochondrial Eve, let me explain:-

Mitochondrial Eve
Mitochondria are multiple tiny bodies found in all eukaryote cells often called the 'power house' of the cell, due to their function of generating usable energy (ATP) from oxidation. Mitochondria contain their own DNA and in mammals, mitochondria are inherited from the cytoplasm in the mother's egg and therefore can be used to trace maternal ancestry.

Mitochondrial Eve represents one of the most poorly understood scientific ideas of the 20th century. In its time it has been feted and condemned, frequently by the same parties at different times. The premise of the idea is that we can all be traced back to a single woman living in Africa approximately 200,000 years ago.

<...>

Because the rate of mitochondrial genetic mutation is slow, it can be used as a clock to turn back time to a period before the mutations had crept in. When mitochondrial DNA from certain populations in Africa are sampled, they can be compared with European mitochondrial DNA. The mutation difference between the two populations can then be compared, and a 'clock' can be produced, enabling the rate of mutation in mitochondria to be established. This produces a time-scale which indicates when modern Europeans first left Africa.

The genetic survey that produced the whole Mitochondrial Eve scenario didn't just sample Africans and Europeans – it sampled genes from people all over the planet. When mitochondrial DNA was compared, the survey discovered a startling result. Fundamental similarities in mitochondrial DNA in living humans suggested that we all contain genetic material from a single woman who was living in Africa around 200,000 years ago.
ht*p://w*w.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A703199

Y-Chromosome Adam
Everybody knows that males have a XY-chromosome pair in place of the XX that females posess. The gender of the progeny of a mating couple is decided by the male as the Y-chromosome follows the male ancestry line.

In human genetics, Y-chromosomal Adam is the male counterpart to mitochondrial Eve: a real or hypothetical single male human ancestor from whom all male Y chromosomes are descended. Unlike other genes, those of the Y chromosome are passed exclusively from father to son, just as mitochondrial DNA is passed to children exclusively by their mothers.

If such a person existed, he probably lived between 35,000 and 90,000 years ago years ago, judging from molecular clock studies. While their descendants certainly became close intimates, Y-chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve themselves never met: rather, they lived many thousands of years apart. They are named after the characters called "Adam" and "Eve" in Genesis, but should not be identified with them. Based on the DNA of peoples living in Africa today, both Y-chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve are believed to have lived in Africa.
ht*p://w*w.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Y-chromosome_Adam/

Confusion
Now this is when people get really confused. How it is possible, you will be thinking, that the whole human race can be derived from a single male and a single female? And how could they be separated by about 100,000 years? The answer is that mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosome Adam weren't necessarily single persons, but small populations of closely related individuals resulting from a genetic bottleneck. A genetic bottleneck is when the population of a particular species is severely reduced, due to environmental and other factors. We would expect the survivors of a bottleneck to have characteristics that provided some survival advantages over the rest of the population and to have eventually displaced them with the result that no mitochondria or Y-chromosomes from these competing groups survived.

And why the huge time separation between Y-Adam and mt-Eve? That's because there has been more that one genetic bottleneck. The population that gave us mt-Eve did not have a unique Y-chromosome counterpart as presumably several males were around to continue their genetic diversity until a later bottleneck caused the selection of a single Y-chromosome type - one that allowed the mutated genetic material from the original mt-Eve to continue.

An extremely severe genetic bottleneck would have occurred as a result of Noah saving his family and other animals on his Ark. However, in this case we would expect to see Y-chromosome Noah and his mitochondrial wife having the same genetic dates of 4000 years approximately, and the same dates for all the other saved animals. We don't of course.

 

[Lakercom]

Did y-Adam and mtDNA Eve have belly buttons?

Probably. I think they would also have been created with tans, hair on their head, toenails and fingernails, dust on their feet (and boogy in their nose). They had the ability to speak a common language, had knowledge of agriculture and had the ability to reproduce.They also would have been created without clothes (naked) and their sex lives would have been a lot less complicated.

 

[laconicstudent]

If God directly created life, why did he create us with Mitochondria, which aren't really human organelles? (Mitochondria have their own DNA, and their own reproduction etc. etc.) Supposedly, Mitochondria were taken in by primitive eukaryotic cells and we exist as symbiotes with them. Why wouldn't God give us a distinctly human organlle for the manufacture of Adenosine Triphosphate? Why would he have created us to exist in symbiosis with and depend upon what is essentially a bacterium?

 

[Lakercom]

If God directly created life, why did he create us with Mitochondria, which aren't really human organelles? (Mitochondria have their own DNA, and their own reproduction etc. etc.) Supposedly, Mitochondria were taken in by primitive eukaryotic cells and we exist as symbiotes with them. Why wouldn't God give us a distinctly human organlle for the manufacture of Adenosine Triphosphate? Why would he have created us to exist in symbiosis with and depend upon what is essentially a bacterium?

They were probably created with food in their stomachs too.

In my opinion all your ramblings to support evolution are bluster and bravado.

 

[laconicstudent]

They were probably created with food in their stomachs too.

In my opinion all your ramblings to support evolution are bluster and bravado.

You have got to be joking. MY post was actually a valid question: If God created Adam and Eve directly, why would he create us with Mitochondria, which are essentially a bacteria, instead of our own, natural, human-DNA-coded organelles for ATP production.


Honestly, did you not understand what I said? It was a rather good question, I think. Apparently, you are incapable of answering it.


What motivation would God have to create animals with Mitochondria, and not a human-DNA-coded organelle?

 

[godsmission]

What motivation would God have to create animals with Mitochondria, and not a human-DNA-coded organelle?

None whatsoever, but they would never say that, they would fall back on, 'God moves in mysterious ways' or ' who are we to question God?' anything a bit awkward or even downright stupid can be explained away using one of those ridiculous retorts.

 

[laconicstudent]

None whatsoever, but they would never say that, they would fall back on, 'God moves in mysterious ways' or ' who are we to question God?' anything a bit awkward or even downright stupid can be explained away using one of those ridiculous retorts.

You seem to have noticed that while Lakercom quoted my post on that, he avoided it by labeling it as "bluster" and "bravdo" and some absurd comment that God created Adam and Eve with food already in their stomachs.