Adam and Eve in Heaven?

[katinka]

I have asked a few people if they think Adam and Eve will be in heaven. Invariably I get the same answer, "Of course they will be in heaven."
I do object to that.
1) Adam blamed Eve.
2) Eve blamed the serpent.
3) Neither of them repented or were sorry.
4) God sacrificed animals to cover their nakedness.
5) Sacrifices were temporary.
6) God forced them out of the garden
7) He placed a Cherubim and a flaming sword at the entrance LEST they repent and also eat of the tree of life. (Jesus had to first come and open that door)

I understand that in the old Testament it seems sacrifices were offered for forgiveness of sins and year for the forgiveness of a whole year of sins. However that is another onion to peel. That belongs to the question of Abrahamic Covenant Theology and Faith.

So, I am interested in any opinion anyone might have to help me overcome my objection to the idea that I may cohabit in heaven with Adam and Eve.
Please don't tell me I am self righteous, or that I think I would have done better had I been Eve. I am not that naïve.
In my understanding a person must repent in order to be saved.
But, on the other hand, I'm always open to good counsel.

 

[Galatea]

How do you know they did not repent?

When Cain was born, Eve thought he was the Messiah- the promise. They believed God.

 

[katinka]

I have asked a few people if they think Adam and Eve will be in heaven. Invariably I get the same answer, "Of course they will be in heaven."
I do object to that.
1) Adam blamed Eve.
2) Eve blamed the serpent.
3) Neither of them repented or were sorry.
4) God sacrificed animals to cover their nakedness.
5) Sacrifices were temporary.
6) God forced them out of the garden
7) He placed a Cherubim and a flaming sword at the entrance LEST they repent and also eat of the tree of life. (Jesus had to first come and open that door)

I understand that in the old Testament it seems sacrifices were offered for forgiveness of sins and year for the forgiveness of a whole year of sins. However that is another onion to peel. That belongs to the question of Abrahamic Covenant Theology and Faith.

So, I am interested in any opinion anyone might have to help me overcome my objection to the idea that I may cohabit in heaven with Adam and Eve.
Please don't tell me I am self righteous, or that I think I would have done better had I been Eve. I am not that naïve.
In my understanding a person must repent in order to be saved.
But, on the other hand, I'm always open to good counsel.

How do you know they did not repent?

When Cain was born, Eve thought he was the Messiah- the promise. They believed God.

How do you know they did not repent?

When Cain was born, Eve thought he was the Messiah- the promise. They believed God.

How do you know they did not repent?

When Cain was born, Eve thought he was the Messiah- the promise. They believed God.

True.
However, that was after they were put out of the garden.
Cain also communicated with God after he killed his brother, neither did he repent.
Please convince me that they were sorry for their sins. I was taught understanding that as unrepented sinners we cannot expect salvation. The reason people are hell bound is because they are unrepentant sinners.
By the way, the Demons and the Satan believe God and tremble.

 

[Galatea]

Where does it say in the Bible that Adam and Eve were unrepentant?

Your question is baffling. I would say there is more evidence that they were repentant than unrepentant.

Genesis 4:25-26 Adam and Eve have a son Seth, whom they name "appointed".

If they were unrepentant, why would they believe the promise, and why teach their sons about sacrifices and about God? After all, God no longer spoke to man. Cain and Abel would not know about sacrifices without their parents teaching them. Unrepentant people would not teach theor children about God.

Do you NOT want them in Heaven for some reason?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I have asked a few people if they think Adam and Eve will be in heaven. Invariably I get the same answer, "Of course they will be in heaven."
I do object to that.
1) Adam blamed Eve.
2) Eve blamed the serpent.
3) Neither of them repented or were sorry.
4) God sacrificed animals to cover their nakedness.
5) Sacrifices were temporary.
6) God forced them out of the garden
7) He placed a Cherubim and a flaming sword at the entrance LEST they repent and also eat of the tree of life. (Jesus had to first come and open that door)

I understand that in the old Testament it seems sacrifices were offered for forgiveness of sins and year for the forgiveness of a whole year of sins. However that is another onion to peel. That belongs to the question of Abrahamic Covenant Theology and Faith.

So, I am interested in any opinion anyone might have to help me overcome my objection to the idea that I may cohabit in heaven with Adam and Eve.
Please don't tell me I am self righteous, or that I think I would have done better had I been Eve. I am not that naïve.
In my understanding a person must repent in order to be saved.
But, on the other hand, I'm always open to good counsel.

From a theological viewpoint, we might consider the idea some theologians have of material we find in Peter's writings to the effect that when Christ died on the cross, He then went and preached the Gospel to those stuck in Hades (1 Peter 3:18-20). But, that's one interpretation I've heard about those verses. Another was that Christ preached victory over disobedient spirits, or something along that line of thought.

Anyway, as a philosopher who has a whole other approach to the biblical contents than what is typically found in more Fundamental churches, I can agree that we might not see Adam and Eve specifically in Heaven, but not for reasons reflecting what you are surmising from the account of sin in the Garden of Eden. And I could be wrong, and I don't hold my viewpoint in a dogmatic fashion.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi Katinka, following the Fall, salvation became something that could only be obtained through faith. Unlike Abraham unfortunately, I don't believe we are ever told something along the lines of: "Adam & Eve believed God, and it was reckoned to them as righteousness". However, there is no question that God continued to care for them after the Fall, and that they depended upon/trusted Him with their lives, and they understood that the things they had all came from Him .. e.g. “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.” ~Genesis 4:1

The Bible doesn't tell us if our progenitors were part of the elect, but I'm not sure why God would have bothered to begin His great work of redeeming mankind with them/for them (Genesis 3:21), if He did not also intend to save them.

They are also the only two humans who were ever "created" by Him (the rest of us are begotten by our parents), which makes them more than just slightly special (and they are definitely a part of the Messianic Line .. see Luke 3:38).

So IMHO anyway, we will see them in Heaven.

Yours in Christ,
David

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

Good question. I've also wondered if Adam and Eve ever repented of their disobedience.

 

[katinka]

Hi Katinka, following the Fall, salvation became something that could only be obtained through faith. Unlike Abraham unfortunately, I don't believe we are ever told something along the lines of: "Adam & Eve believed God, and it was reckoned to them as righteousness". However, there is no question that God continued to care for them after the Fall, and that they depended upon/trusted Him with their lives, and they understood that the things they had all came from Him .. e.g. “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.” ~Genesis 4:1

The Bible doesn't tell us if our progenitors were part of the elect, but I'm not sure why God would have bothered to begin His great work of redeeming mankind with them/for them (Genesis 3:21), if He did not also intend to save them.

They are also the only two humans who were ever "created" by Him (the rest of us are begotten by our parents), which makes them more than just slightly special (and they are definitely a part of the Messianic Line .. see Luke 3:38).

So IMHO anyway, we will see them in Heaven.

Yours in Christ,
David

 

[katinka]

Thanks. Good thought on Luke 3:38
So all those mentioned in the Messianic line were righteous like Abraham whose faith was counted unto him as righteousness. I've always had a thousand questions about the difference between OT saints and the Church.
I know we, the Church, are considered Abraham's offsprings in the Faith, but I still can't connect the law and grace and equal it to come up as one.
Lol, in my orderly mind there needs to be 2 Heavens, one for the wife of Jehovah, Israel, and one for the bride of Vhrist, the Church. I know I'm being ridiculous.

 

[RaymondG]

Maybe The bible is actually a spiritual book. Maybe Adam and Eve were symbolic of the current Human Race as a whole. Gen 5:2 seems to state that the man and women together were called Adam. Maybe we are to re-awaken the Adam and reunite with the Eve to get back to the Garden(as Adam was never awakened after Eve was separated from him)..... Or maybe a lizard told a woman to eat a fruit and, as a result, most of the world will go to a place of torment.

 

[katinka]

Naw- that doesn't do it for me.
My Bible is the HS breathed Word of God to me. The older I get the less I understand it, and the more questions I have.
I'm just going fishing here to see how people think about some things that baffle me. The secret things belong to God. See Job 38-42
I believe:
Sovereign God planned the whole thing. If he did not, he is not completely Sovereign.
It's fine with me, I don't have a box to put Him in.

 

[Yarddog]

So, I am interested in any opinion anyone might have to help me overcome my objection to the idea that I may cohabit in heaven with Adam and Eve.

I personally see Adam and Eve as an allegory pointing to the Jewish people turning away from righteousness, which came through Abraham, and placing themselves under the Law.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I have asked a few people if they think Adam and Eve will be in heaven. Invariably I get the same answer, "Of course they will be in heaven."
I do object to that.
1) Adam blamed Eve.
2) Eve blamed the serpent.
3) Neither of them repented or were sorry.
4) God sacrificed animals to cover their nakedness.
5) Sacrifices were temporary.
6) God forced them out of the garden
7) He placed a Cherubim and a flaming sword at the entrance LEST they repent and also eat of the tree of life. (Jesus had to first come and open that door)

I understand that in the old Testament it seems sacrifices were offered for forgiveness of sins and year for the forgiveness of a whole year of sins. However that is another onion to peel. That belongs to the question of Abrahamic Covenant Theology and Faith.

So, I am interested in any opinion anyone might have to help me overcome my objection to the idea that I may cohabit in heaven with Adam and Eve.
Please don't tell me I am self righteous, or that I think I would have done better had I been Eve. I am not that naïve.
In my understanding a person must repent in order to be saved.
But, on the other hand, I'm always open to good counsel.

That's Jesus' descent into Hades having toppled the gates of Hell lifting Adam and Eve from their sarcophogi. The symbolism, of course, is in Christ humanity is redeemed and raised up in Him--to the hope of bodily resurrection and everlasting life.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ken777]

Genesis 3:21 with Genesis 4:4 and Hebrews 11:4 show that animal sacrifice was offered for their sin. The actions of Adam & Eve in covering their loins shows they knew they had sinned and were ashamed.

This goes into what the original sin was and why "loin cloths" was their response.

 

[SPF]

1) Adam blamed Eve.
2) Eve blamed the serpent.
3) Neither of them repented or were sorry.
4) God sacrificed animals to cover their nakedness.
5) Sacrifices were temporary.
6) God forced them out of the garden
7) He placed a Cherubim and a flaming sword at the entrance LEST they repent and also eat of the tree of life. (Jesus had to first come and open that door)

More often than not our problems with understanding Scripture stem from our unbiblical assumptions. And you do indeed make a few here.

In fact, I would say the key to your argument is your point 3, that neither of them repented. The problem with this is that Scripture does not tell us that Adam and Eve never repented. This is an assumption that you're making. In fact, I would say the evidence is that they did repent.

Consider their children, how do you think their children knew it was important to sacrifice? It's possible that God came down and told them, but I think it's more likely that their parents, Adam and Eve, taught them about God and the importance of sacrificing. Why would they do that if they had hardened hearts? Then after the death of one of her children, Eve proclaimed that Seth was a gift from God. Does that sound like someone with a hardened heart towards God?

I don't know why you choose to believe in your point 3 when Scripture does not tell us one way or another, and the evidence suggests that they were repentant.

Finally, point 7 is just patently false. Where does it say that the reason that the Cherubim was set to guard the tree of life was that "LEST they repent"? I don't see anything in Genesis 3:22 that mentions fear of repentance as a reason for the angelic guard.

Bottom line, in order to hold the position that Adam and Eve are not in heaven one must make assumptions. Making assumptions in the realm of theology, especially within the realm of judging the hearts of people is not something I would recommend.

 

[katinka]

Thank you for your good responses. I said in my original post that I am open to good counsel. I will consider and study scriptures according to your suggestions.
God reveals Truth to seekers. If you seek for me with all your heart you will find me.

 

[RaymondG]

Thank you for your good responses. I said in my original post that I am open to good counsel. I will consider and study scriptures according to your suggestions.
God reveals Truth to seekers. If you seek for me with all your heart you will find me.

You cant find the truth if you dismiss everything that doesnt align with your current beliefs, as your statement "Naw- that doesn't do it for me. " would suggest you are going. Except a man becomes as a little child, he can in no wise enter the kingdom.

Remember, the men that knew the word the best....the masters of the jews and the biblical language, did not recognize Christ when he spoke to them... They said "Naw- that doesn't do it for me." and sent him to the cross....

 

[katinka]

You're right.
But, I am open to change. For 38 years I was stuck in an Armenian theology and struggled to reconcile the teachings of my church with my own studies of scripture. In desperation I prayed for Truth and God revealed his Sovereignty and also the matter of Election. It cost me a lot so far but I am determined to follow the new path. I am at the very beginning of this new journey and , Yes, I am open to Truth. I use only chain references for my own study.
I rely on HS to guide me into the Truths He thinks I can assimilate.
Je 31:33-34

 

[rnmomof7]

You're right.
But, I am open to change. For 38 years I was stuck in an Armenian theology and struggled to reconcile the teachings of my church with my own studies of scripture. In desperation I prayed for Truth and God revealed his Sovereignty and also the matter of Election. It cost me a lot so far but I am determined to follow the new path. I am at the very beginning of this new journey and , Yes, I am open to Truth. I use only chain references for my own study.
I rely on HS to guide me into the Truths He thinks I can assimilate.
Je 31:33-34

Me too sister

Were they saved? Knowing God does not save...we are saved by grace alone , by faith alone .. so their salvation.like our depended on Gods grace and the faith that He was sending a Savior..

It would seem that Eve understood that God was going to send a Savior.. and that she believed that promise.. we are also told Cain and Able offered sacrifices (a type of Christ ) ..so it would seem their parents taught them that practice .

If they looked forward to Christ in faith they would have been saved .

Now the deep weed of Reformed theology ..God ordained the fall ... think about that for a few minutes.

 

[St_Worm2]

Now the deep weed of Reformed theology ..God ordained the fall ... think about that for a few minutes.

God, in His sovereignty, ordains whatsoever comes to pass (if He did not, He would not be sovereign). This doesn't mean that He CAUSES whatsoever comes to pass, but He does "allow" many things to happen that are otherwise opposed to His will for us.

"Sin" is certainly one of those things that He "ordains" but does not "cause", yes

God ordained the Fall (in the sense that He knew it was going to happen/allowed it to happen), but He didn't cause it, or force our first parents to sin against Him, they chose to do that for themselves. Had He done so, He would have become the undoubted, "Author of evil".

On the other hand, "Hyper-Calvinism" does teach that God caused the Fall. However, Hyper-Calvinism (which took our name as part of their own) is NOT Calvinism/Reformed theology, nor is it an off-shoot/branch of Calvinism or Reformed theology. Hyper-Calvinism is, at best, heresy.

Yours and His,
David