Adam and Eve brought sin into the world. When they died, did they go to heaven or hell?

Do you think Adam and Eve went to heaven or hell?

  • yes, they went to heaven

    Votes: 20 80.0%
  • no, they went to hell

    Votes: 5 20.0%

  • Total voters
    25

yeshuasavedme

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Without Enoch you have nothing, and that's the problem. So much should not be confined to so little and rejected as well by main stream Christian and Jewish faith groups. This is how cults are formed.
to call the entire Christian community who reads the Book of Enoch and the histories and the DSS scrolls a cult is putting your own soul in danger.
You attack the messengers and ignore the clear evidences of the message of the fall and redemption of the Adam creation as one message for the salvation and restoration of the entire Adam creation (for whosoever will), as one story from Enoch the prophet and all the way through to Moses, and the Jewish prophets and on to YHVH revealed in new creation flesh to fulfill the promised Atonement and all the way to the Revelation of Jesus Christ, to the Regeneration and restoration of all the creation, on the 8th millennial Day of the creation; and you argue in wilfull ignorance of the One plan of God revealed in the sacred writings kept by the namesake people of the New Man name in the history of the world.
 
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DamianWarS

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to call the entire Christian community who reads the Book of Enoch and the histories and the DSS scrolls a cult is putting your own soul in danger.
You attack the messengers and ignore the clear evidences of the message of the fall and redemption of the Adam creation as one message for the salvation and restoration of the entire Adam creation (for whosoever will), as one story from Enoch the prophet and all the way through to Moses, and the Jewish prophets and on to YHVH revealed in new creation flesh to fulfill the promised Atonement and all the way to the Revelation of Jesus Christ, to the Regeneration and restoration of all the creation, on the 8th millennial Day of the creation; and you argue in wilfull ignorance of the One plan of God revealed in the sacred writings kept by the namesake people of the New Man name in the history of the world.
I didn't call anyone a cult, I merely stated that a single source of controversial evidence is how cults are formed. I mean look at LDS, a claim to finding ancient gold plates in the ground which this secret knowledge. There are groups of Christians that have nuanced beliefes based on extra biblical sources and they all cite their reasons for it but just because those groups exists doesnt validate their claims. If we embrace Enoch why not all the other extra biblical sources as well? Who gets to decided what is ordained and what is not? Because the church already had that conversation in the 4th century. So you disagree with that, well that's your right but it still doesn't fit the criteria.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I didn't call anyone a cult, I merely stated that a single source of controversial evidence is how cults are formed. I mean look at LDS, a claim to finding ancient gold plates in the ground which this secret knowledge. There are groups of Christians that have nuanced beliefes based on extra biblical sources and they all cite their reasons for it but just because those groups exists doesnt validate their claims. If we embrace Enoch why not all the other extra biblical sources as well? Who gets to decided what is ordained and what is not? Because the church already had that conversation in the 4th century. So you disagree with that, well that's your right but it still doesn't fit the criteria.
To equate the real Book of Enoch with the LDS is simply not wise, not at all.
You have made claims that are provably false about Enoch, and the “church” is not the Holy Spirit that decided in the 4th century that the Book of Enoch was not to be read....
Thank God, the Holy Spirit is not in agreement with those who would play such dangerous games with the minds of men as to tell men “they know what they can and can’t believe about what is inspired or not. Jesus says in Revelation 2:6 That He hates the deeds of the Nico laitians which means, literally, those that rule over/to conquer the laity. That means that those who tell the laity what to believe, and control them in beliefs of what is inspired or not, are hated by Jesus, so early “Church” rulers of a certain area ruled over the laity by playing as if they were the “Holy Spirit”
The book of Enoch is canon in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and has been kept in the books deemed sacred writing by the Jews in Ethiopia who received the Gospel for over 2,000 years.
The DSS Enoch manuscripts discovered in the Qumran caves in 1947 agree with the real Book of Enoch in the Ethiopian “canon”.
So the lies about that book are proven to be lies, and history confirms Enoch in the early Church writings also, and in the NT, and in every place one looks, in the Torah, the prophets, the wisdom books -like even Job, and in the NT, to anywho is familiar with the writings.
As to the writings of Enoch,, the book of the giants written by Enoch is also is in the manuscripts of the DSS.

The DSS manuscripts are copies, of copies, of copies that go back to the original sources.
Abram -before his name change by YHVH to AbraHam, lived with Noah and Shem at Mount Moriah, when hiding out from Nimrod, who wanted to kill him, and who later, after the fall of the Tower of Babel when Abram was 49 years old, came out of Noah and Shem’s house.

Nimrod, BTW, is the same Am Rapha El “Amraphael” who is the king in Genesis 14 that Abraham chased back up to his own country, to Hobah, on the left of Damascus (Nimrod’s home city, as to my own research.)

In Noah’s house, Abram would have made his own copy of the book of Enoch, and he had Enoch the prophet’s book when he came out of their house, and in the DSS scrolls, Abraham’s own testimony in his own 1st person writing -they always wrote their stories- Abraham writes that when the men of Pharaoh returned Sarai/Sarah to him, they asked him to teach them wisdom, values, and truth, and so he “read to them from the book of Enoch”.

As to that reading, in the ancient Egyptian history, they once worshipped the true God as He was depicted in the Book of Enoch, as “the Amen/the truth, who was hidden with God in heaven, and who is God, who made all things and himself was not made -and so on”.
As Paul wrote, all nations once knew the Truth, and changed the glory of God into a lie, and made images of idolatry of the created things (to paraphrase from Romans 1), and in Revelation 3:14, we read:
“These things Saith the Amen”, the faithful and True Witness, the Beginning/Arche (the active cause of of the origin of all things) of the Creation of God.

I did a thread on this board including Jesus Christ as the once hidden in God Son of Man, who was with God, who was God, and who made all things, and who was revealed to the Egyptians by Abraham from the Book of Enoch as the Truth/Amen and who the Egyptians worshipped as the Amen, and wrote extensively about Him as ancient tablets reveal, but “turned his Truth into a lie over the centuries, and changed His truth into a Lie” as all nations seem to do, over time -even our own!
But YHVH reveals that He will return the Egyptians to Himself in the last days, in Isaiah 19:22-25, we see Egypt returns to YHVH -for He Yeshua/Christ who was once hidden in God, with God, who is God, is to be revealed even to them.
The history book of the Upright, called the real Book of Jasher has much of the chronology of the times of the Patriarchs in it, and is worth reading for those who like to know history.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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And how might you prove them as false?
Actually, I have refuted your false claims many times in this thread, and you do not reply to the facts, being blinded to the Truth set before you, so as to search it out and see. You have proved you use denials to the truth of the matter that come from sources not of your own familiarity with the History of the Word from Moses on, to Enoch back, and into the NT, to it's final chapter. If you were familiar with the Torah and Enoch, and with the history of the world, then you would not make the false claims that you do.
I have written on this subject for a long time decades (?), and delighted myself in the connections of all inspired Scripture, from Enoch to Revelation.
2009, quote me, on another forum:
"Jesus called the writings of 1 Enoch, Scripture, when he rebuked the Sadducees for not knowing the Scripture which teaches that the angels in heaven do not marry nor are they given in marraige, and that in the resurrection, the righteous will be companions of [equal with] the angels in heaven.
Barnabas also called Enoch Scripture, and did so more than once [Barnabas was one of His seventy disciples, and later a called "apostle to the Gentiles" along with Paul]; and Jesus also called the writings of 1 Enoch the Wisdom of God, in another place.
Jesus also makes many direct statements which are first written in Enoch, and which were not written in the OT, and what is referred to as 1 Enoch was extant when Jesus came in flesh, as the Dead Sea Scroll collection also proves, and 1 Enoch was called Scripture by many early Church [so called] fathers [but the father does not be born after the baby, so they are not the fathers of the Church, are they?]\"

Read more: The book of Enoch...why isn't it in the bible? (testimony, doctrine) - Christianity - - Page 4 - City-Data Forum
 
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DamianWarS

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Actually, I have refuted your false claims many times in this thread, and you do not reply to the facts, being blinded to the Truth set before you, so as to search it out and see. You have proved you use denials to the truth of the matter that come from sources not of your own familiarity with the History of the Word from Moses on, to Enoch back, and into the NT, to it's final chapter. If you were familiar with the Torah and Enoch, and with the history of the world, then you would not make the false claims that you do.
I have written on this subject for a long time decades (?), and delighted myself in the connections of all inspired Scripture, from Enoch to Revelation.
2009, quote me, on another forum:
"Jesus called the writings of 1 Enoch, Scripture, when he rebuked the Sadducees for not knowing the Scripture which teaches that the angels in heaven do not marry nor are they given in marraige, and that in the resurrection, the righteous will be companions of [equal with] the angels in heaven.
Barnabas also called Enoch Scripture, and did so more than once [Barnabas was one of His seventy disciples, and later a called "apostle to the Gentiles" along with Paul]; and Jesus also called the writings of 1 Enoch the Wisdom of God, in another place.
Jesus also makes many direct statements which are first written in Enoch, and which were not written in the OT, and what is referred to as 1 Enoch was extant when Jesus came in flesh, as the Dead Sea Scroll collection also proves, and 1 Enoch was called Scripture by many early Church [so called] fathers [but the father does not be born after the baby, so they are not the fathers of the Church, are they?]\"

Read more: The book of Enoch...why isn't it in the bible? (testimony, doctrine) - Christianity - - Page 4 - City-Data Forum
you reference tradition, not facts so within the vacuum you present it may be refuted but there is much that exists outside that vacuum that you seem to sweep under a run. Enoch is a product of the Hellenization period based on its dating of the 3-2 century BC, its content, being a Greek base and overlapping into Greek mythology, it's acceptable among both Jewish (as well as Christian) communities as well as no other prior scripture agrees with it or demonstrates knowledge of it. It may have older aspects/influence but if it does it is a Hellenised version of it. Chapter 1 has a portion that is clearly a type of interpretation of Deuteronomy 33 so then the question is which came first? as Deuteronomy 33:2 seems to be the source and Enoch the interpretation it would place Enoch after Deuteronomy which makes Enoch a Pseudepigrapha. but apparently, these are all false claims and easily refuted by your strong bias.

the Sadducees only accept Torah which is why Jesus quotes to them from the Torah to show the resurrection. To claim Christ was pointing to Enoch because he said angels don't marry would be inconsistent with his approach as the Sadducees rejected the book of Enoch too yet somehow this detail seems to be accepted. Jesus uses that moment to show them, even the scripture they accept, they don't know and he humiliates them with his knowledge of it. He does not use this moment to tell them they should accept Enoch as scripture and this encounter has nothing to do with Enoch.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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You said:...”To claim Christ was pointing to Enoch because he said angels don't marry would be inconsistent with his approach as the Sadducees rejected the book of Enoch too”
You err, not knowing Scripture, and you are deceptively leaving out what Jesus said to the Sadducees.
1. Jesus said they erred not knowing Scripture.
Jesus said that in heaven they will be like the angels, and they do not marry in heaven.
Enoch said the angels do not marry in heaven. No place in the OT is that said.
Enoch said they will be companions of [like] the angels in heaven.
That is not said in the OT anywhere. Only in Enoch.
They erred, not knowing Scripture.
So do you.
You don't know true history, either.
 
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