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Featured Adam and Eve brought sin into the world. When they died, did they go to heaven or hell?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by returntosender, Apr 5, 2021 at 2:48 AM.

  1. yes, they went to heaven

    19 vote(s)
    79.2%
  2. no, they went to hell

    5 vote(s)
    20.8%
  1. Paul4JC

    Paul4JC It is for freedom that Christ has set us free

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    Yes they went to heaven after Christ's decent and resurrection,

    [Eph 4:8-10 NIV] 8 This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people." 9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

    ...but before this they were in Sheol.

    [Psa 49:15 NIV] 15 But God will redeem me from the realm of the dead; he will surely take me to himself.

    The Forgotten Books of Eden: The First Book of Adam and Eve: The First Book of Adam and Eve goes into great detail of how deeply repentant and sorrowful they were and how they struggled outside the Garden. They prayed and sought after God everyday and He took care of them.
     
  2. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    [​IMG] (They will be the ones with no bellybuttons... ;))
     
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  3. returntosender

    returntosender EL ROI

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    What do I mean about what? My last comment? If you believe that everything is in Gods plan then all are playing a part in Gods plan. Judas was chosen not of his own volition. God has control of everything, correct? From the beginning Jesus' life was planned out to save us, no? and everything that followed.
    What saved everyone from sin before Jesus. They didn't have to believe in him in order to go to heaven? I know about the sacrifices they made for sin back then. It is definitely not anywhere close to what saves us. We don't have a chance without our belief in Jesus. Seems theirs was an easy choice just kill an animal. Why not continue that process instead of sacrificing the most beautiful of men, Gods son. I gotta say I don't like his plan. There will never be another. It worked before with just animals. None of us our worth his death. Poor decision on Gods part. imo.
     
  4. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    We don't know nor should we judge what happened, that is God's purview
     
  5. Paul4JC

    Paul4JC It is for freedom that Christ has set us free

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    ...except our free will.
    [Gal 3:8 NIV] Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

    [Heb 11:39 ] These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised
    We are totally unworthy.
    [Eph 3:16-19 NIV] I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord's holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
     
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  6. CleanSoul

    CleanSoul New Member

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    I seems to me that they confessed to God what they had done. First Adam blamed Eve, then Eve blamed the serpent who tempted her, but, eventually they confessed. They were definitely given a penance, and as their children, we are still paying for it.
     
  7. returntosender

    returntosender EL ROI

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    No judgment on my part, just opinion or thoughts.
    I do believe that the happenings surrounding Christs persecution and death was Gods will not mans. Most other times in the bible are Gods doing or allowing. I am a true believer that God is in control.
     
  8. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    Sheol is an unknown indiscriminate place of the dead. it's like a door of death that all must pass through but what's on the other side no one knows. this reflects the ignorance of the OT with regards to the afterlife. The account of the rich man and Lazarus does not use the word Sheol it uses the word Hades to describe the punishment part of the afterlife. What is Hades? Like Sheol it is also an indiscriminate place of the dead but unlike Sheol is it not left unarticulated or unknown and there is a lot of written account as to what Hades looks like. To start it's a borrowed term from Greek mythology where Hades is the underworld and its god also is named Hades. Clearly, Jesus doesn't intend the mythology but he still uses the term to describe a place of the dead reserved for punishment that we can be saved from. This small account has more information on the afterlife than the sum of the entire OT does on Sheol and is like Jesus opens the door of Sheol and the perspective is from the inside.

    But as to it's physical descriptors we need to take it with a grain of salt and understand how they are being used and why. the goal of this account is not to describe these places or to teach us what these places look like, the goal of the account to show the place of honour given to Lazarus and the place of dishonour given to the rich man which is a reverse of how their lives were and an unexpected result; a detail aimed at the phrases listening in. Lazarus is said to be at the side of Abraham and this is a reference to Lazarus being counted as a son of Abraham and a position of high honour where the rich man is removed from Abraham's presence and is rejected as a son and along with that has no claim to an inheritance as a true son. The account also foreshadows Christ's own resurrection. So there is a lot going on in the account but literal descriptors of these places or how they are organized I don't think is one of them and when this is all we can see we've missed the point completely of the account.
     
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  9. returntosender

    returntosender EL ROI

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    How does it go?wide is the gate and narrow is The way. Doesn't seem any of us have a guarantee even those that dealt with him directly. There are very few that come close to Jesus, I can't find the word to describe him. Thus the few
     
  10. returntosender

    returntosender EL ROI

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    How does it go?wide is the gate and narrow is The way. Doesn't seem any of us have a guarantee even those that dealt with him directly. There are very few that come close to Jesus, I can't find the word to describe him. Thus the few
     
  11. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    On the contrary; the Torah, prophets, books of wisdom and the histories of the OT most definitely do agree in total with the writings of Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, as Jude, the womb brother of Adam named him. But to know that, you have to really get familiar with the above books, and then, when you read Enoch 1, you will be amazed at how much Moses and all who wrote before him (Job, for instance), relied on what Enoch the prophet the seventh from Adam wrote as the foundation for their own writings.
    Even our LORD Jesus Christ spoke many things from the foundation of what Enoch the prophet wrote, not needing nor wanting to lay again the foundation that was laid once, by Enoch. Those who know the Word of God, who do not handle it deceitfully, and are honest scholars do not deny these truths. Ignorance of the Word, blind faith in traditions of men, and/or willfull ignorance does not make for honest and wise understanding.
     
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  12. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    I say they went to heaven because of the early christian belief of "Christ's Descent into Hell" which would have been better named Descent into Sheol. This is also called "The Harrowing of Hell", (Emptying of Hell). In between the time of the Cruxiftion and Resurrection Christ descended into Hades and preached to the Righteous dead.


    • 1 Peter 3:19–20: (Jesus) "went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water...."
    In the original Greek: "ἐν ᾧ καὶ τοῖς ἐν φυλακῇ πνεύμασιν πορευθεὶς ἐκήρυξεν, ἀπειθήσασίν ποτε ὅτε ἀπεξεδέχετο ἡ τοῦ θεοῦ μακροθυμία ἐν ἡμέραις Νῶε…."
    • Ephesians 4:7-10 NIV: "But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. This is why it[or God] says, 'When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.'[Psalm 68:18] What does 'he ascended' mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?[or the depths of the earth] He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe."

    "The Gospel of Matthew relates that immediately after Christ died, the earth shook, there was darkness, the veil in the Temple was torn in two, and many people rose from the dead, and after the resurrection (Matt. 27:53) walked about in Jerusalem and were seen by many people there. According to the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus, the Harrowing of Hell was foreshadowed by Christ's raising of Lazarus from the dead prior to his own crucifixion. The hymns proper to the weekend suggest that as he did on Earth, John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus in Hell by prophesying to the spirits held there that Christ would soon save them."

    Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia
     
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  13. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    Enoch's perspective of Hades is a product of Hellenistic Judaism and nothing more than that. It offers detail completely absent from the biblical narrative and influenced by Greek mythology. Nothing in the Jewish canon agrees with such a perspective
    Sheol is an unknown mysterious place of the dead that all pass through. Anything else is extra biblical.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021 at 11:50 AM
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  14. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They are dead and decomposed, and do not exist anymore.

    Jesus will resurrect them on the last day and judge them.

    Nobody is in heaven or hell - all dead humans are in the ground decomposing(if they weren’t cremated), and will be resurrected on the last day.
     
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  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    They died under the Gospel - New Covenant as forgiven sinners. The lost had become saved.

    Gal 1:6-9 there is only one Gospel in all of time
    Gen 3:15 the Gospel in promise form.
     
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  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Enoch was one of the saints of the OT - and was translated - taken directly to heaven without dying. But like Noah - he did not write a single word of scripture. So while it is certain that some splinter of his teaching survives out to 5000 years later via tradition - much of it is interpolated with hellenistic thought that was easily inserted since there was no Hebrew text to deal with as if it had been preserved from the days of Enoch.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    The grave. Turns out a lot of people OT and NT go to the grave at death.


    Luke 16 is a parable of Jesus - not a historic record.
    Luke 16 says nothing at all about paradise having a "prison part" nothing in that teaching says that the rich man "went to paradise".

    The NT makes it very clear that Paradise is in the 3rd heaven, it is where the Tree of Life and the Throne of God are.

    No prison is ever said to be "in paradise" in the Bible.
     
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  18. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    "Enter ye in at the strait gate:
    for wide is the gate,
    and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,
    and many there be which go in thereat:
    Because strait is the gate,
    and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,

    and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14 KJV​

    In the Amplified Version,
    "Enter through the narrow gate;
    for wide is the gate and spacious
    and broad is the way that leads away to destruction,
    and many are those who are entering through it.
    But the gate is narrow (contracted by pressure)
    and the way is straitened and compressed that leads away to life,

    and few are those who find it."​
     
  19. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Obviously that would depend on whether they repented of their sin or not, just like any other human beings.
     
  20. Paul4JC

    Paul4JC It is for freedom that Christ has set us free

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    We all have our ups and downs of life and faith. We are all still learning. That’s what a disciple is.

    At the end of the day I trust God. One of my favorite passages is Gen 18:23-33 where Abraham pleads with God. The main verse 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing--to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" [Gen 18:25 NIV]

    I have most of my family and loved ones without faith in Christ. I spent some years in the third world ["where the streets have no name"] where most don’t know Christ, while we sit comfortably in our Christendom here in the west, with all our Bible knowledge.

    …at the end of the day I know God will do right. He will not cast away anyone unjustly, or let anyone presumptuously enter heaven.

    I trust God is loving and good. He will sort out all that I do not understand at that time. I don’t under estimate his measureless love. Doesn’t mean I understand it all, I don’t.

    12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. [1Co 13:12 ESV]
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 11:51 AM
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