acts 19:1-7)if they believe?why hadn't they recieve

george · Apr 2, 2002

1While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[1] you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
3So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.
4Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5On hearing this, they were baptized into[2] the name of the Lord Jesus. 6When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[3] and prophesied. 7There were about twelve men in all.

LouisBooth · Apr 2, 2002

because they seemed to believe in John not Christ. He was saying who do you follow basically, they said they follow John the B not Jesus.

JohnR7 · Apr 2, 2002

>>acts 19:1-7)if they believe?why hadn't they recieve

From what I can tell, only those who were physically present in the upper room, received the Holy Spirit at Pentacost. Others, who were not there, later received the Holy Spirit through those who had been there. For example, Peter preached one sermon and 3000 received the Holy Spirit. Thanks, JohnR7

psalms 22.3 · Apr 4, 2002

They answered your question
"we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
paul did not know that they really DID NOT BELIEVE.
they believed in john, but had not yet heard of salvation and the holyspirit.
they simply didnt know.

and since they had only been baptised by john
THEY WERENT REALLY EVEN SAVED.
johns baptism didnt save people, only prepared them for the ONLY one who could truely save a man.

so, these men werent really saved. and there is no spirit baptism for those who arent yet forgiven saved in the name of jesus.

when it says they WERE BAPTISED "INTO" THE NAME OF JESUS.
it isnt speaking of WATER baptism.
paul later speaks of BAPTISMS PLURAL.
there is the
BAPTISM INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST, OR JESUS.
BAPTISM IN WATER UNTO REPENTANCE FOR AN OUTWARD TESTIMONY.
BAPTISM OF THE HOLYGHOST.

they received the FIRST ONE i listed.
it simply means that they got saved.
they were BAPTISED INTO, EMERSED INTO, THE BODY OF CHRIST, through salvation.

once they got saved, he laid hands on them and they were filled with the holyspirit.

i know most people wont believe all that, but, well its what i believe, i dont want to start a big fuss.

ZiSunka · Apr 4, 2002

Yes, it seems that although they knew of Christ, they thought that salavation was through water baptism, and they didn't know that a confession of faith in Christ was what it is really all about. The Holy Spirit didn't come to them because they hadn't really trusted Christ as their savior, they had trusted in baptism to save them.

Wildfire · Apr 4, 2002

Hi george; I believe you found an important piece of the bible.
The Holy Spirit is a gift from Jesus Christ. It comes from ones own asking, and recieving. These men were not filled with that gift, until it was made known unto them.

How many of us <<here>> have called aloud upon the Holy Spirit?

I would lay down my own life for this belief:

For I was a christian unto myself, until I did this. And I walked as a christian of confusion. I did not understand the words of the bible.
And until I; weak and disapssionate, sought God and prayed him to send me the comforter; which is the holy spirit of truth, to help guide me, and he did.
Lucky am I, to have done this.

I beseech everyone, not me, but those who asked this before me; to remember the words of our messiah Jesus Christ, when he walked on this earth and preached among us.
I will not leave you comfortless.
I will send you the comforter.
He will shew you all things.
Amen.

ZiSunka · Apr 4, 2002

How many of us <<here>> have called aloud upon the Holy Spirit?

Even before I was a Christian, I call upon the Holy Spirit.

And of course since then the Holy Spirit and I have become very familiar!

LouisBooth · Apr 4, 2002

Call on the HS all you want, you can't get "access" to his indwelling until you are made pure by Christ's blood.

Andrew · Apr 4, 2002

because they seemed to believe in John not Christ. He was saying who do you follow basically, they said they follow John the B not Jesus.
----------------------------
That's a possible argument. BUT the Holy Spirit was still given at the laying on of hands. It wasnt automatic at point of conversion as most Christians believe today.

Also, while this example may not be so clear, what about the Samarians. The Bible says that they had received the Word of God and even been baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus. ie it was not John's baptism or John's word that they had received. v12
"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, "

Yet Peter and John had to travel all the way there to place their hands on them so that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:14
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands,

What about Paul himself, he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, was converted (he had 3 days to think about it) and only received the Holy Spirit after Ananias laid his hand on him.

Nick_Loves_Abba · Apr 4, 2002

So someone who is converted, or accepts Jesus into their heart is still going to hell?

Andrew · Apr 4, 2002

So someone who is converted, or accepts Jesus into their heart is still going to hell?
---------------------
No I'm not trying to say that, nor do I believe that. But can you then appreciate why some Christians believe that unless you have the Holy Spirit, you are not saved, and that as "proof" that you have the Holy Spirit, you can speak in tongues. So in a sense, i dont blame them for believing that bcos of such verses. anyway, I'm not goin to argue about that.

All I'm saying is that such verses seem to contradict what has been mostly taught about receiving the Holy Spirit. so i just want to know how one wld interpret such verses.

LouisBooth · Apr 5, 2002

"Yet Peter and John had to travel all the way there to place their hands on them so that they might receive the Holy Spirit. "

AGain, I think we are talking about special instances also. Can you say that you have been talking with someone and instantly be in another place? I would say that they laid hands on them AFTER telling them that John the B was not the one they were looking for.

Timothy51150 · Apr 6, 2002

When we are reborn, man's spirit is brought back into reconciliation to God. The line of communication that was broken in the Garden of Eden was fixed and we can once again walk and talk with the Father. We have been reconcilied.

That rebirth is made possible through the price that Christ paid on the cross. His blood paid the price for our sins. This allowed the Holy Spirit do away with the old adamic nature and make a completely new nature that could communicate with the Father once again.

The Holy Spirit is always God agent. He was there at the creation of the world, He overshadowed Mary when she conceived Jesus in her womb. The Holy Spirit is the agent of our new birth, therefore once who are recreated you are going to heaven, but the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a totally separate event

Did I make any sense at all.

Thunderchild · Apr 7, 2002

It should be noted that in another place in Acts, a group is referred to upon whom the Holy Spirit had not come, they had been baptised into the name of the Christ only.

Who would ask for the gift of the Holy Spirit without knowing that was available?

Debbie · Apr 7, 2002

John the Baptist did not baptize anyone in the name of Jesus Christ. When he discovered the Mesiah had come, John stopped baptizing period.
Therefore, those who were baptized by John, still needed to believe on Jesus Christ to be saved. If they were baptized by John, & refused to believe in Jesus Christ, they were not saved.

Timothy51150 · Apr 7, 2002

I will have to agree with Debbie. I do not believe that they were saved either.

Thunderchild · Apr 8, 2002

Act 8:14 -17

Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

RKF · Apr 8, 2002

The salvation plan is simple,
Repent , be baptized in Jesus name, receive the Holy Ghost. Act 2:38 That's what the apostles taught for years afterward.

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