• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

ACORN Investigation Revisited

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So ACORN was shut down thanks to the "pimp" scandal started by O'Keefe.

Too bad the entire "issue" was bunk:

article said:
The hidden-camera videos created a political firestorm when they were released, and tarnished the once-mighty ACORN, which stands for Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. The organization folded last month. Brown, a Democrat running for governor, said the tapes were highly edited.
Rather than give advice on prostituting underage girls, human trafficking and cheating on taxes, the attorney general's office found ACORN members at times caught on to the scheme and called the police in the portions of the videos that were cut.
"Sometimes a fuller truth is found on the cutting room floor," Brown said.

FOXNews.com - Calif. AG Says ACORN Broke No Criminal Laws
Ringo
 

Douger

Veteran
Oct 2, 2004
7,054
878
✟180,821.00
Faith
Christian
Right wing treatment of ACORN has been shameful and disgusting from the beginning.

Private, community based organizations like ACORN should be held up as examples rather than smeared and crushed.

As usual, the conservative crowd will pass on or ignore the blame as they go on their next idiotic, destructive crusade.
 
Upvote 0

WalksWithChrist

Seeking God's Will
Jan 5, 2005
22,860
1,352
USA
Visit site
✟53,730.00
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
I heard about this on Rachel Maddow last night. Apparently, ACORN threw the guy out initially and called the cops on him.

Shameful and disgusting how this thing went down.

Also "Climategate" was on the same program...bunk as well.

What I find amazing is that with all the damage done, no one that did the attacking actually "won" anything. Not the '08 election, not health care...nothing.
They just left scorched earth behind with no accountability whatsoever.
And nothing gained.

Truly sad.
 
Upvote 0

Ringo84

Separation of Church and State expert
Jul 31, 2006
19,228
5,252
A Cylon Basestar
Visit site
✟121,289.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
oldbetang said:
Who says the "issue" was bunk? Jerry "Moonbat" Brown? LOL

Can you describe how ACORN was supposedly such a threat to democracy?

WalksWithChrist said:
I heard about this on Rachel Maddow last night.

Me too. That's what prompted me to start this thread.

We've been hearing for months how ACORN is such a threat to our political system, but I've never seen any evidence of it.
Ringo
 
Upvote 0

kermit

Legend
Nov 13, 2003
15,477
807
51
Visit site
✟42,358.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Who says the "issue" was bunk? Jerry "Moonbat" Brown? LOL!
Otherwise, known as the guy with the uneditted tapes. So, I ask myself, who is more trustworthy? The person talking about all the evidence or the person talking about selected evidence.
 
Upvote 0

oldbetang

Senior Veteran
Jul 21, 2005
7,361
461
✟32,487.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Otherwise, known as the guy with the uneditted tapes. So, I ask myself, who is more trustworthy? The person talking about all the evidence or the person talking about selected evidence.

The tapes were not edited to show the Acorn workers in a bad light. The Acorn workers did that themselves. The only one talking about selective evidence is Jerry Brown. He is not to be trusted. The videos speak for themselves.
 
Upvote 0

Umaro

Senior Veteran
Dec 22, 2006
4,497
213
✟28,505.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Can you describe how ACORN was supposedly such a threat to democracy?



Me too. That's what prompted me to start this thread.

We've been hearing for months how ACORN is such a threat to our political system, but I've never seen any evidence of it.
Ringo

The evidence is everywhere, if Republicans let ACORN show exploited workers how to vote, they might demand more equality.
 
Upvote 0

oldbetang

Senior Veteran
Jul 21, 2005
7,361
461
✟32,487.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The evidence is everywhere, if Republicans let ACORN show exploited workers how to vote, they might demand more equality.


Is that what Acorn was being accused of? I thought that it was advising others on how to commit felonies and get away with it.
 
Upvote 0

kermit

Legend
Nov 13, 2003
15,477
807
51
Visit site
✟42,358.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The tapes were not edited to show the Acorn workers in a bad light. The Acorn workers did that themselves. The only one talking about selective evidence is Jerry Brown. He is not to be trusted. The videos speak for themselves.
The uneditted tapes show the ACORN workers calling the police and the "pimp" not dressed as a pimp but rather in a suit and tie. Neither of those things appear in the editted version. Sorry the uneditted tapes tell a different story that the editted version.

You seem to be operating under the delution that creative editting can't be used to tell a very different story than what really happened.

You claim that Brown is untrust worthy, but it is the person who taped and editted the incidents that was arrested for tampering with the phones of a US Senator. It's obvious that who you find trustworthy is not based upon the actions of the people, but whether or not they believe the same things you do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: soblessed53
Upvote 0

oldbetang

Senior Veteran
Jul 21, 2005
7,361
461
✟32,487.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The uneditted tapes show the ACORN workers calling the police and the "pimp" not dressed as a pimp but rather in a suit and tie. Neither of those things appear in the editted version. Sorry the uneditted tapes tell a different story that the editted version.

As you note, there is more than one tape. More than one Acorn office was approached by O'keefe and Giles. The cases that they documented are legitimate. They did not put words in the mouths of Acorn workers. That some Acorn workers turned out to be honorable does not negate the fact that others are not. Advising people on how to commit felonies and get away with it is not honorable.

You seem to be operating under the delution that creative editting can't be used to tell a very different story than what really happened.

What evidence is there that creative editing resulted in Acorn getting egg on its face?

You claim that Brown is untrust worthy, but it is the person who taped and editted the incidents that was arrested for tampering with the phones of a US Senator. It's obvious that who you find trustworthy is not based upon the actions of the people, but whether or not they believe the same things you do.

The charges of tampering with the phones of a US Senator have been dropped. Brown is a partisan who refuses to even do his job if it conflicts with his personal beliefs. (Prop 8) I'll trust O'keefe and Giles over Jerry "Moonbat" Brown any day.
 
Upvote 0

JoyJuice

Senior Veteran
Aug 8, 2006
10,838
483
✟28,465.00
Faith
Agnostic
Politics
US-Others
As you note, there is more than one tape. More than one Acorn office was approached by O'keefe and Giles. The cases that they documented are legitimate. They did not put words in the mouths of Acorn workers. That some Acorn workers turned out to be honorable does not negate the fact that others are not. Advising people on how to commit felonies and get away with it is not honorable.
The majority of the workers were found to be honorable and the ones that weren't, were fired. There really is nothing to be found by O'Keefe and Breitbart's dishonesty.
 
Upvote 0

oldbetang

Senior Veteran
Jul 21, 2005
7,361
461
✟32,487.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The majority of the workers were found to be honorable and the ones that weren't, were fired. There really is nothing to be found by O'Keefe and Breitbart's dishonesty.

The sting operations revealed Acorn to be full of dishonorable shady characters. Deal with it.
 
Upvote 0

WalksWithChrist

Seeking God's Will
Jan 5, 2005
22,860
1,352
USA
Visit site
✟53,730.00
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
The sting operations revealed Acorn to be full of dishonorable shady characters. Deal with it.
We dealt with it.

We passed health care.

In honor of ACORN's fraudulently accelerated and manufactured demise.
:)
 
Upvote 0

kermit

Legend
Nov 13, 2003
15,477
807
51
Visit site
✟42,358.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The charges of tampering with the phones of a US Senator have been dropped. Brown is a partisan who refuses to even do his job if it conflicts with his personal beliefs. (Prop 8) I'll trust O'keefe and Giles over Jerry "Moonbat" Brown any day.
You call Brown a partisan, yet seem perfectly fine with believing hyper partisans like O'Keefe.

Also, the situation in which the charges were dropped against O'Keefe indicate a plea deal; hardly a sign of innocence.
 
Upvote 0

Gawron

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2008
3,152
473
✟5,109.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
For anyone to believe or promote the belief that the taped incidents of ACORN reps advising people on how to commit felonies is the only slight against ACORN is just wrong.


Van Hollen Charges five with election fraud



Quote:



Five Wisconsin residents have been charged with criminal counts of voter fraud in the November 2008 general election, state Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen announced today.


Two of those charged - Maria Miles, 36, of Milwaukee, and Kevin Clancy, 26, of Racine - worked for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), the embattled community organizing group.


"The complaint alleges that Miles and Clancy submitted multiple voter registration applications for the same individuals, and also were part of a scheme in which they and other (special registration deputies) registered each other to vote multiple times in order to meet voter registration quotas imposed by ACORN," the Van Hollen release says.


Both were charged with one felony count.


Attempts to reach ACORN today were unsuccessful.


End Quote. Link: Van Hollen charges five with election fraud - JSOnline


Here is a link to a list of ACORN convictions over the years:


Fraud Map :: Rotten Acorn ::


In a local news story:


The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud



Quote:


In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.


In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.


And, that was just Missouri.


End Quote. Link: Pajamas Media » The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud


Of course, it is always just a conservative witch hunt. Unless you read between the lines.


Iglesias: "I'm Astounded" By DOJ's ACORN Probe


Quote:

David Iglesias says he's shocked by the news, leaked today to the Associated Press, that the FBI is pursuing a voter-fraud investigation into ACORN just weeks before the election.


"I'm astounded that this issue is being trotted out again," Iglesias told TPMmuckraker. "Based on what I saw in 2004 and 2006, it's a scare tactic." In 2006, Iglesias was fired as U.S. attorney thanks partly to his reluctance to pursue voter-fraud cases as aggressively as DOJ wanted -- one of several U.S. attorneys fired for inappropriate political reasons, according to a recently released report by DOJ's Office of the Inspector General.



End Quote. Link: Iglesias: "I'm Astounded" By DOJ's ACORN Probe | TPMMuckraker


Not even all Democratic leaders are staunch supporters of ACORN and its methods.


Conyers suggests probe of ACORN


Quote:

Mr. Conyers, Michigan Democrat and fierce partisan, suggested a congressional probe after scathing testimony about the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) during a hearing on various voting issues related to the 2008 presidential election.



Mr. Conyers called the accusations “a pretty serious matter.”



“I think that it would be something that would be worth our time,” he said during Thursday's hearing. “We've never had one person representing ACORN before the committee. ... I think in all fairness we ought to really examine it.”

The testimony by Pittsburgh lawyer Heather Heidelbaugh accused the nonprofit group of violating tax, campaign-finance and other laws by, among other things, sharing with the Barack Obama campaign a list of the Democrat's maxed-out campaign donors so ACORN could use it to solicit them for a get-out-the-vote drive.



She also testified that the Democrat-allied group provided liberal causes with protest-for-hire services and coerced donations from targets of demonstrations through a shakedown it called the “muscle for the money” program.



End Quote. Link: Conyers suggests probe of ACORN - Washington Times


But anyone who thinks these guys are just going to go away is also wrong. They will surface again under different names and continue operations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HerbieHeadley
Upvote 0