Absolutely Free or Not?

[Free Gracer]

Is eternal life absolutely free or not?

 

[depthdeception]

Is eternal life absolutely free or not?

Salvation is by Christ's grace alone. Therefore, it is infinitely free. However, as partakers in Christ, we are called to embody his grace to the world. Therefore, our salvation entails a kind of "death." In this sense, then, it is extremely costly.

 

[Free Gracer]

With all due respect, depthdeception, this sounds like a "paradox" akin to the many in Reformed theology.

Antonio

 

[DouglasMabry]

I voted absolutely free.

Douglas

 

[Raz]

.

For those who are voting free, I hope you're not implying that Christ's death was worthless. He gave His life "a ransom for many". "You were paid for with a price".

Revelation 5:9 - and they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation

Scripture like this implies a cost to salvation. Not one we're able to pay, however.

.

 

[Free Gracer]

I hear you, Raz. The poll presupposes cost to the recipient, not the provider.

It is either free, or too expensive...

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

MY view...


I think that salvation is absolutely free TO US

There is that old saying, "There are no free lunches." True. But that doesn't mean that WE pick up the tab! I believe salvation has a VERY high price involved - Christ's perfect life and vicarious death and victorious resurrection! It's just He paid it.



But while BECOMING a Christian is absolutely free for us
BEING a Christian is not.


I think sometimes these two things get mixed up.



I think a lot of Christians kinda confuse justification (narrow sense - becoming saved) with santification (narrow sense - discipleship).
I think of it this way. Becoming a human being was free for me! Now, my parents had some work involved (my Dad got the easier part there - but let's not go into that), and I suppose there was some doctor and hospital bills involved. Didn't involve anything on my part, however (the conception part, anyway). BUT, now that I am a human being, now that I am their child, there are things I'm expected to do. I am to grow up and mature, etc.


MY view.


Keep the faith! Share the love!


- Josiah



.

 

[DouglasMabry]

I hear you, Raz. The poll presupposes cost to the recipient, not the provider.

It is either free, or too expensive...

Amen, Antonio! That's why I voted Absolutely Free.

Douglas

 

[Outrider]

I don't do polls. They're like lawyers, leading one to a preordained conclusion.

Justification is by grace alone through faith. Same message for the last 2,000 years. The one who is justified must endure to the end and will.

 

[DouglasMabry]

I don't do polls. They're like lawyers, leading one to a preordained conclusion.

Justification is by grace alone through faith. Same message for the last 2,000 years. The one who is justified must endure to the end and will.

Will you say that salvation is by grace through faith ALONE? Will the one who MUST endure to the end do so perfectly? Why didn't Jesus tell Nicodemas that endurance was part of the equation? Just by reading your post, I have no idea if you are Catholic, J. Witness, Morman. They would each say the same, that endurance is a MUST if we are to be delacred righteous. When would you say we are justified?

Douglas

 

[jmacvols]

It is free, but the conditions on it must be met, John 6:27.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

With all due respect, depthdeception, this sounds like a "paradox" akin to the many in Reformed theology.

Antonio

While I disagree with DD on a great many things, oddly enough this is one I agree with him on.

Salvation is free, but it cost us our lives. Our old lives of bondage to sin and death, which is not really a loss, now is it?

You may recall that Jesus said, "Those who lose their lives for My sake will gain it."

Is that a paradox?

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

It is free, but the conditions on it must be met, John 6:27.

In that passage, the emphasis is on the "food" that the Son gives and endures to everlasting life. The emphasis is on what the Son does, not on what we do.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

I don't do polls. They're like lawyers, leading one to a preordained conclusion.

Justification is by grace alone through faith. Same message for the last 2,000 years. The one who is justified must endure to the end and will.

Right on!

Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, that He would give her Living Waters. It is God who is faithful. It is God who keeps every single one whom He gives to the Son tightly in His Hand, and no one is greater than He nor can snatch them out of His Hand.

 

[jmacvols]

In that passage, the emphasis is on the "food" that the Son gives and endures to everlasting life. The emphasis is on what the Son does, not on what we do.

No, we are to labor/work for the meat that endures to everlasting life, which the Son of man shall GIVE unto you. Everlasting life is not given unless one works-meets the conditions set on it. Is the unbelieving given everlasting life? No, because belief is one, (not the only), condition that must be met to receive eternal life.

 

[jmacvols]

Right on!

Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well, that He would give her Living Waters.

Jn 4:10, the woman would first have to ask (meet the conditions) then Jesus would GIVE her living water.

 

[Outrider]

Augustine_Was_Calvinist,

It is God who keeps every single one whom He gives to the Son tightly in His Hand, and no one is greater than He nor can snatch them out of His Hand.

Preach it, brother. Even the one to whom grace is applied cannot snatch himselof out of that mighty hand.

Jn 4:10, the woman would first have to ask (meet the conditions) then Jesus would GIVE her living water.

Always handy to actually quote the verse to see what it really says:
John 4:10 (ESV)
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, 'Give me a drink,' you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water."

Jesus say she would ask if she knew the gift of God and who was before her. Looks like your verse puts God first and actuator of savation. Thanks.

Douglas,

Will you say that salvation is by grace through faith ALONE?

The faith is not alone. It is a creation of God in the heart of his child through the ministration of the Word by the Holy Spirit. There's actually a pretty big crowd gathered around faith. All divine persons of the the Trinity.

Will the one who MUST endure to the end do so perfectly?

No. They will do so progressively. But more imporatant is that since the righteousness of Christ is imputed to them, his obedience and his good works will make their pilgrimage of faith sufficient in the end. As we receive him so we walk in him. We receive him by grace through faith, so we walk by grace through faith.

Why didn't Jesus tell Nicodemas that endurance was part of the equation?

Nicodemus was a teacher of Israel. Jesus didn't have to tell him about rebirth. It was already a teaching of the Older Testament. As for progressive sanctification, that too is a teaching of the Older Testament. I guess the subject just didn't come up.

Just by reading your post, I have no idea if you are Catholic, J. Witness, Morman.

You must not have read my post carefully enough. Augustine Was Calvinist caught on from just that post. I wonder if you have a lens you're reading posts through.

They would each say the same, that endurance is a MUST if we are to be delacred righteous.

Did I say that?

Outrider: Justification is by grace alone through faith. Same message for the last 2,000 years. The one who is justified must endure to the end and will.

Man. Don't scare me like that.

When would you say we are justified?

When, after the Holy Spirit had created faith in me through the ministration of Gospel (which is the power of God to salvation, BTW) I believed in Christ and his work of redemption and was, on the basis of his righteous life, his death, his burial, his resurrection and his ascension on my behalf), declared righteous by God with the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith in him.

 

[Free Gracer]

MY view...


I think that salvation is absolutely free TO US

There is that old saying, "There are no free lunches." True. But that doesn't mean that WE pick up the tab! I believe salvation has a VERY high price involved - Christ's perfect life and vicarious death and victorious resurrection! It's just He paid it.



But while BECOMING a Christian is absolutely free for us
BEING a Christian is not.


I think sometimes these two things get mixed up.



I think a lot of Christians kinda confuse justification (narrow sense - becoming saved) with santification (narrow sense - discipleship).
I think of it this way. Becoming a human being was free for me! Now, my parents had some work involved (my Dad got the easier part there - but let's not go into that), and I suppose there was some doctor and hospital bills involved. Didn't involve anything on my part, however (the conception part, anyway). BUT, now that I am a human being, now that I am their child, there are things I'm expected to do. I am to grow up and mature, etc.


MY view.


Keep the faith! Share the love!


- Josiah



.

Josiah, you are only 17 years old and yet you have this knowledge? Many people go through their whole Christian lives and not understand these distinctions. You are right on!

This is a very good post!

 

[freegracertwo]

Hi Antonio!

I voted for Absolutely Free!

And just like you I can say that God's grace is Absolutely Free without having to qualify it right off the bat, and wind up contradicting myself by mixing grace with works.

Your friend, Antonio, and brother in Christ

Robbie

 

[Free Gracer]

Hey aguiwascalvinist,

you write:

You may recall that Jesus said, "Those who lose their lives for My sake will gain it."

Is that a paradox?

I understand this verse by Jesus in a very different way. You may want to explain what you think this verse means.

Very briefly, to me, this is an invitation to truly have life now (purposeful, meaningful, and abundant) and a GREATER experience of life in eternity in God's kingdom, with respect to varying degrees of honor, glory, priviledge, and position. Jesus says that He came to give us life and it more abundantly. If we lose our life now (dying to self, living for Jesus) we can have the purposeful, abundant life now (with persecutions) and a GREATER experience of eternal life in the future. Eternal life is not static. We have the ability now to increase our experience of it in the future by faithful works, obedience, and perseverance now.

This is just my brief overview of Jesus' comment. I may start a thread detailing the differences between the call of salvation : the invitation to receive a free gift, and the call to discipleship: the invitation to service to build a purposeful life now and work towards a better experience in the kingdom of God.

Justification salvation/present possesion of eternal life: absolutely free. Faith alone in Jesus Christ alone for the reception of eternal life brings eternally secure eternal-wellbeing, founded upon the costly sacrifice of Christ.

Glorification salvation: costly. Dependent upon our faithful endurance of trials, obedience, perseverance, dying to self, etc.

Eternal life is free to the recipient. Yet this opens the doors to the opportunity to build upon that life, to have a greater experience of it now and in the future.

In 1 Cor 3:11ff we see the one who has no works burned up yet saved, as through fire. He squandered his opportunities to have abundant life now and then. He considered the acquisition of the world now a compensation for him losing the abundant life now and in the future. This man is saved and will be in the kingdom, but his roles, priviledges and position will be restricted. His opportunity to have the increased abundant life there is lost.

Mixing the two calls of Jesus has disastrous results. It compromises them both.

Antonio