Absolute Predestination

[JLB777]

We have many good conversations about predestination. But we seldom define the degree to which predestination affects the universe and all.

At the least it appears many think God imagined the universe before he created it. Let it run its own course without his intervention. And then created what he saw. Making it unchangeable and therefore predestined to happen just as he foresaw it.

Another view, the most extreme says: God created all, including every thought and act of every creature in the universe when he created the universe. That not a grain of sand on the furthest planet shifts position without God who also created its path and movements in the appointed time.

Both extremes depend on God’s perfect knowledge. If God only energizes but doesn’t control all, he then must watch and learn what might or might not happen. And this would mean he is not all knowing as the bible says.

Other theories emerge but the Westminster Confession Chapter 3:1; God's Eternal Decree defines biblical predestination this way.

1. God, from all eternity, did—by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will—freely and unchangeably ordain whatever comes to pass. Yet he ordered all things in such a way that he is not the author of sin, nor does he force his creatures to act against their wills; neither is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.

So as I understand, we freely choose for the reasons God created with us, to base our choices on. As we meet up with them at the right time in life.

This resolves free will and divine sovereignty.

It’s important to understand that Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign with Christ and the other 11 in the age to come.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:27



JLB

 

[EmSw]

I'm not a Calvinist. Just a bible student. Jesus taught the rich young ruler how impossible it is to earn salvation by keeping the Law. You must also sell all, give to the poor, and take the bullet for the next guy in harms way if you want to earn salvation.

First of all, Jesus never said keeping His commandments was impossible. Your first mistake.

So taking a bullet for someone is your perception of salvation? Your second mistake.

But Jesus did it for us who believe in him. So while we wear his righteousness and all it merits, we still struggle working on our own.

But you didn't answer why you don't believe the truth of Jesus' words. If His words (if you want to enter life, keep the commandments) are the truth, why do you avoid them like the plague?

Jesus never said He kept the commandments for those who believe. This is a falsity of natural man.

 

[Dave L]

First of all, Jesus never said keeping His commandments was impossible. Your first mistake.

So taking a bullet for someone is your perception of salvation? Your second mistake.



But you didn't answer why you don't believe the truth of Jesus' words. If His words (if you want to enter life, keep the commandments) are the truth, why do you avoid them like the plague?

Jesus never said He kept the commandments for those who believe. This is a falsity of natural man.

Who ever kept the Commandments but Jesus?

 

[JLB777]

First of all, Jesus never said keeping His commandments was impossible. Your first mistake.

So taking a bullet for someone is your perception of salvation? Your second mistake.



But you didn't answer why you don't believe the truth of Jesus' words. If His words (if you want to enter life, keep the commandments) are the truth, why do you avoid them like the plague?

Jesus never said He kept the commandments for those who believe. This is a falsity of natural man.

Amen.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


“I know Him” is the biblical definition of eternal life.


Those who claim to have eternal life, but do not keep His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them.


These are those who poison the minds of God’s people with a false grace message.


They have disregarded the teaching of Christ and His Apostle’s.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


The doctrine of Christ and His commandments are about Loving God by loving our neighbor.


This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. 2 John 6

again


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



To sin against our brother is to hate him.


If we steal from our brother, we are not loving him, but hating him.

If we commit adultery with our brothers wife we are not loving him, but hating him.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



The way we love God is by loving our neighbor.


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21




JLB

 

[Dave L]

It’s important to understand that Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign with Christ and the other 11 in the age to come.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:27



JLB

Matthias replaced Judas.

 

[JLB777]

Matthias replaced Judas.

Yes.


Judas was predestined to sit on one of the thrones reigning with the other Apostles and Christ.


Judas ended up going to his own place, having fell by transgression.



JLB

 

[EmSw]

Who ever kept the Commandments but Jesus?

Are you sure no one has ever kept the commandments? I sure would hate to be in your church if no one kept the commandments. And if you don't keep them, please stay away from my family.

 

[Dave L]

Are you sure no one has ever kept the commandments? I sure would hate to be in your church if no one kept the commandments. And if you don't keep them, please stay away from my family.

Al Capone could keep the ten commandments if it was to his advantage. But only perfect love can keep the Two Great Commandments of love for God and people (including enemies).

 

[JLB777]

Al Capone could keep the ten commandments if it was to his advantage. But only perfect love can keep the Two Great Commandments of love for God and people (including enemies).

Is lying to your brother loving him?

Is committing adultery with your brother’s wife loving him?

Is murdering your brother, loving him?

Is stealing from your brother loving him?

Is coveting your brothers wife or house or anything that is your brother’s loving him?


Is dishonoring your parents, loving them?


Is having other gods in your life loving God?

Is taking God’s name in vain loving God?

Is making images of things in heaven or on earth, and worshiping them, loving God?




JLB

 

[Dave L]

Is lying to your brother loving him?

Is committing adultery with your brother’s wife loving him?

Is murdering your brother, loving him?

Is stealing from your brother loving him?

Is coveting your brothers wife or house or anything that is your brother’s loving him?


Is dishonoring your parents, loving them?


Is having other gods in your life loving God?

Is taking God’s name in vain loving God?

Is making images of things in heaven or on earth, and worshiping them, loving God?




JLB

No, but if you are born again, you won't want to sin and you will hate evil.

 

[YeshuaFan]

All were given a measure of faith that the Holy Spirit uses to draw all men, but we must choose. That's where you and I differ. Calvinists believe those drawn have no choice but to accept. But not all are saved. Not that God rejected them and made them reject Him, but He gave them free will to choose.

We believe that God intended the death of Jesus to purchase and provide real salvation to be applied towards His very elect...

 

[YeshuaFan]

Dave, I see you are a Calvinist. I was wondering about that.

Here's a question for you. Do you believe Jesus is the Truth, and everything He said is the Truth?

Matthew 19:17
...but if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

Here we have a statement from Jesus. Is this the Truth or not? Is it a partial Truth? Does it only apply to some?

Since I wholeheartedly believe it is absolute, total truth, why would you not believe this truth to enter life? Did God ordain you to not believe this truth? Did He ordain you to not act upon this truth? Did He ordain you to believe this is a lie?

Why would God ordain such unbelief in you?

John 8
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the the truth shall make you free.”

Salvation is by Grace alone, thru faith alone in Jesus as ones Lord Messiah!

 

[YeshuaFan]

I'm not a Calvinist. Just a bible student. Jesus taught the rich young ruler how impossible it is to earn salvation by keeping the Law. You must also sell all, give to the poor, and take the bullet for the next guy in harms way if you want to earn salvation.

But Jesus did it for us who believe in him. So while we wear his righteousness and all it merits, we still struggle working on our own.

Jesus was pointing oyt to him that his best works would be as filthy rags before Holy God...

 

[YeshuaFan]

Is lying to your brother loving him?

Is committing adultery with your brother’s wife loving him?

Is murdering your brother, loving him?

Is stealing from your brother loving him?

Is coveting your brothers wife or house or anything that is your brother’s loving him?


Is dishonoring your parents, loving them?


Is having other gods in your life loving God?

Is taking God’s name in vain loving God?

Is making images of things in heaven or on earth, and worshiping them, loving God?




JLB

Chrsitians once saved do not advocate to just keep on sinning though!

 

[EmSw]

Salvation is by Grace alone, thru faith alone in Jesus as ones Lord Messiah!

Where did Jesus say that? Don't you think the Savior Himself would have said this, is this is the foundation of salvation?

 

[EmSw]

Jesus was pointing oyt to him that his best works would be as filthy rags before Holy God...

Where did Jesus say that? Why must you make up things to justify your beliefs?

 

[YeshuaFan]

You might be surprised how many Calvinists have never read the works of Calvin. I never have. I probably never will. I got my views from the Bible, and not just from particular passages, but from a strong underlying theme throughout. Denouncing Calvin has little effect to the thinking of a Calvinist, just to let you know.



So in other words, you don't know what causes the will, but you do know that it isn't God. Then you believe that God is not the original cause of all of creation, but that a few billion parts of it, the human will, have an origin that is either self-extant, like God is, or else caused by something else which is also beyond God's causative power, ultimately leading to something else which is self-extant, another I Am, so to speak.

Calvinists like myself have read Calvin, and Hodge, and Berkhof, among others, but the primary andmain source of my theology is still from the scriptures themselves...

 

[YeshuaFan]

Where did Jesus say that? Don't you think the Savior Himself would have said this, is this is the foundation of salvation?

Jesus is the chief cornerstone of salvation, and we get saved by receiving Him as the risen Lord thru faith!

 

[EmSw]

No, but if you are born again, you won't want to sin and you will hate evil.

Does God ordain one to sin, even though he hates sin? Your 'ordain' beliefs are going to get you into trouble.

 

[EmSw]

Jesus is the chief cornerstone of salvation, and we get saved by receiving Him as the risen Lord thru faith!

Is it by receiving Him, or is it by grace alone?