Absolute Morality

[ziggy29]

not exactly

And I suppose you have all the answers.... exactly? Sure.

 

[Eudaimonist]

it prevents you from being absolutely sure about morality

So? How does that prevent me from having a morality? Why is absolute certainty a requirement? There are many things I am not absolutely sure of in life, but that doesn't mean that I can't act on reasonable certainty.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[JoeyArnold]

not having morality is like not having water

 

[JustMeSee]

not having morality is like not having water

 

[JoeyArnold]

it is not about not having water but about how much water you drink

 

[mathclub]

The moral teachings of Jesus are neither completely legalistic with no wiggle room, like those of the Prophet Mohammed, nor are they completely anarchic. They are intended not to tell us exactly what to do, but to inspire us to greatness.

then by definition they are not objective, as a set of objective morals would tell you exactly what to do, clearly and with no wiggle room

 

[mathclub]

Three Points:

Point one- It's "Thou shall not murder" not thou shall not kill. (big difference)

Point two- Morality exists within an individual but can only have being (actualized existence) in a relationship.
God's morality exists apart from His relationship to His creation. God's morality actually exists (has being) between God the Father, God the Holy Spirit and God the Son.

Point three- God condescends to man in two ways: inspiration of the Word of God and incarnation of the Word of God.

point one - depending on your translation. and quibbling over different words doesn't actually help us when the bible has no definition of the different words, it just muddies the waters more. How does that make it objective?

The other two points I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[mathclub]

God's morality is absolute. Our interpretations of it are not, because we are imperfect creatures influenced by other factors and often by the predominant culture of the time. Indeed, cultural changes lead to many people reinterpreting Scripture in ways they hadn't considered before.

so even though gods morality is obvjective, none of us seem to be sure what that exactly is, so then christian morality is subjective, depending on translations, intrepretations and the society at the time?

 

[ziggy29]

so even though gods morality is obvjective, none of us seem to be sure what that exactly is, so then christian morality is subjective, depending on translations, intrepretations and the society at the time?

To some extent, I think that's fair. Though I'd qualify that a bit: virtually everyone can agree on the big stuff (murder is wrong, rape is wrong, theft is wrong) so I don't really think you can disagree with those and be well-grounded in morality. Some things are, more or less, moral absolutes (even to most nonbelievers). So even though individual Christians may have somewhat different moral codes, there will be a large overlap.

 

[Cuddles333]

It is interesting when some contend that the Bible contains the absolute morality. In reality, it contains the absolute morality for the Israelites at that time, for Christians dealing with Christians, and Christians dealing with the unbelievers outside the church, and general morality for all.


Absolute morality, in some cases, contradicts Old and New Testament commandments. Consider the Old Testament's account of Rahab the harlot. Her lie helped the Israelite spies, which in the very long run, helped pave the way for Christ.

I think the struggle for the greatest moral good in a situation is what God intends for us and our conscience verifies this.

 

[AlexBP]

then by definition they are not objective

I entirely agree. The moral teachings of Jesus are not completely objective. There are two ways to not be objective, from below or from above. Meaningless PC gobbletygook that refuses to criticize anyone for doing anything falls far below objectivity. The teachings of Jesus rise far above objectivity.

 

[Glas Ridire]

It's not half so complicated as you're trying to make it. Copyright violation, while illegal, is not theft, and it is dishonest to claim otherwise.

How is "theft is theft regardless of what is stolen" complicated?

Seriously? There's a death penalty for adultery and murder in the O.T. That's what I'm talking about. That much IS objectively true.

You mean King David of the OT is alive somewhere? I thought he died centuries ago. . .

At this point, I am not even sure you know what I said. The term "natural law" as you are using it is not something that came about all of a sudden, and it has a whole host of transitory philosophical and theological implications that, from a Christian standpoint, the book of Genesis simply does not suffer from.

No, I recognized misguided argument when you made it. You may disagree with the conclusions, but Hume, Locke, Beccaria and such indicated that Natural Law has been with us since we became human (at the hands of God, according to the Christians).

I don't have a degree of any sort. Feel free to make boundless appeals to authority now. It'd be about par for the course.

Eh, no. I just thought it was amusing that you were arguing against standard mainline Christian beliefs in a discussion about "what Christians believe regarding absolute morality" and talking down as if educated.

And here was me actually thinking you and I would have fun talking. *buckles helmet back on*

There are other threads if you aren't having fun.