pasifika
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Thank you @tall73 yes Hebrews 4:5 is a quote from Psalms 95:11.."I declare on oath in my anger, "they shall Never enter my Rest".. thanks for bringing up this quote..This seems important to clarify before addressing some of the other.
The same is used in Hebrews 3:11, quoting Psalm 95, where the context is clearly a reference to God's oath that they would not enter in:
Heb 3:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου, εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.
Heb 3:10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’
Heb 3:11 As I swore in my wrath, ‘if they they shall enter my rest.’”
This is in reference to the generation in the wilderness:
Num 14:28 Say to them, ‘As I live, declares the LORD, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you:
Num 14:29 your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against me,
Num 14:30 not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.
Deu 1:34 “And the LORD heard your words and was angered, and he swore,
Deu 1:35 ‘Not one of these men of this evil generation shall see the good land that I swore to give to your fathers,
Deu 1:35 Εἰ ὄψεταί τις τῶν ἀνδρῶν τούτων τὴν ἀγαθὴν ταύτην γῆν, ἣν ὤμοσα τοῖς πατράσιν αὐτῶν,
He appears to be using an oath formula or idiom that was employed in several places in translating the LXX as listed below, and also occurs in the Greek of Mark 8:12.
Vincent's word studies;
Lit. if they shall enter, etc. A common Hebraistic formula in oaths. Where God is speaking, as here, the ellipsis is “may I not be Jehovah if they shall enter.” Where man is speaking, “so may God punish me if”; or “God do so to me and more if.” Comp. Mar_8:12 : lxx, Gen_14:23; Deu_1:35; 1Ki_1:51; 1Ki_2:8. Sometimes the ellipsis is filled out, as 1Sa_3:17; 2Sa_3:35.
An example of the filled out idiom when used by a person:
2Sa 3:35 Then all the people came to persuade David to eat bread while it was yet day. But David swore, saying, “God do so to me and more also, if I taste bread or anything else till the sun goes down!”
It is a quote of Psalm 95, which is Psalm 94 in the LXX
Psa 95:11 Therefore I swore in my wrath, “They shall not enter my rest.”
Psa 94:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου Εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.
So in short, it is an oath formula indicating they will not enter.
You could render it: "if they enter into my rest I am not the LORD. "
This seems important to clarify before addressing some of the other.
The same is used in Hebrews 3:11, quoting Psalm 95, where the context is clearly a reference to God's oath that they would not enter in:
Heb 3:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου, εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.
Heb 3:10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’
Heb 3:11 As I swore in my wrath, ‘if they they shall enter my rest.’”
This is in reference to the generation in the wilderness:
Num 14:28 Say to them, ‘As I live, declares the LORD, what you have said in my hearing I will do to you:
Num 14:29 your dead bodies shall fall in this wilderness, and of all your number, listed in the census from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against me,
Num 14:30 not one shall come into the land where I swore that I would make you dwell, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.
Deu 1:34 “And the LORD heard your words and was angered, and he swore,
Deu 1:35 ‘Not one of these men of this evil generation shall see the good land that I swore to give to your fathers,
Deu 1:35 Εἰ ὄψεταί τις τῶν ἀνδρῶν τούτων τὴν ἀγαθὴν ταύτην γῆν, ἣν ὤμοσα τοῖς πατράσιν αὐτῶν,
He appears to be using an oath formula or idiom that was employed in several places in translating the LXX as listed below, and also occurs in the Greek of Mark 8:12.
Vincent's word studies;
Lit. if they shall enter, etc. A common Hebraistic formula in oaths. Where God is speaking, as here, the ellipsis is “may I not be Jehovah if they shall enter.” Where man is speaking, “so may God punish me if”; or “God do so to me and more if.” Comp. Mar_8:12 : lxx, Gen_14:23; Deu_1:35; 1Ki_1:51; 1Ki_2:8. Sometimes the ellipsis is filled out, as 1Sa_3:17; 2Sa_3:35.
An example of the filled out idiom when used by a person:
2Sa 3:35 Then all the people came to persuade David to eat bread while it was yet day. But David swore, saying, “God do so to me and more also, if I taste bread or anything else till the sun goes down!”
It is a quote of Psalm 95, which is Psalm 94 in the LXX
Psa 95:11 Therefore I swore in my wrath, “They shall not enter my rest.”
Psa 94:11 ὡς ὤμοσα ἐν τῇ ὀργῇ μου Εἰ εἰσελεύσονται εἰς τὴν κατάπαυσίν μου.
So in short, it is an oath formula indicating they will not enter.
You could render it: "if they enter into my rest I am not the LORD. "
First off context in Hebrew 4 supports "if they shall enter."Thank you @tall73 yes Hebrews 4:5 is a quote from Psalms 95:11.."I declare on oath in my anger, "they shall Never enter my Rest".. thanks for bringing up this quote..
This will be my last post on the usage, because it is all that needs to be said. You indicated we needed to look at the usage. We did look at the usage. Out of 11 uses, 2 were clearly not usual sabbath rests. That means the word is capable of expressing non-usual sabbath rests. Whether Origin has "questionable" teachings is not what you proposed we talk about. You wanted to discuss usage, and we did. It is a usage close to the time, with a non-usual sabbath meaning. So the word is capable of being used that way.
And you continue to ignore Chrysostom, who was a native Greek speaking Arch Bishop who also indicated "sabbath-keeping" but applied it to other than the seventh-day Sabbath. So that is three historical instances of such applications. Hence, the word can be used of literal sabbath (weekly or otherwise), and non-usual sabbath applications. Your bid to consider it a limited technical term with no possible application to non-literal sabbath keeping is not accurate.
For God spake in a certain place, Mt. Sinai of the Seventh Day on this wise, And God did rest, cease the Seventh Day from ALL His works. Including the works for our salvation through the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World. (Rev 13:8)
Answered with the following...I have asked this before, but had no response: What would it mean for me to keep the Sabbath - how do I do it?
- Refrain from all work on a Saturday?
I'm not in paid employment, so I'm not labouring for 6 days.- Refrain from all work on a Sunday?
See above.- Refrain from work, except if it's helping others?
Great; I can do a voluntary work shift then, just as I do the rest of the week.- Take one day out to worship God?
I worship God every day. Scripture says "whatever you do, do it with your whole heart as for the Lord" - so all my activities are worship, because I'm doing them for, and with, God.- The 7th day belongs to God?
ALL days belong to God - he made them.
Your response here...Hi SIM this might be helpful from the scriptures...
HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?
WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?
Exodus 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
[9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
[11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.
WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?
v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. The "seventh day" (our Saturday or Friday sunset to Saturday sunset bible time) is the last day or the week while according to the scriptures the first day (Resurrection day) is sunset Saturday to sunset Sunday evening our time.
WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?
Genesis 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.
ALL UNECCESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET
Exodus 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
Mark 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath
The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.
IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?
Matthew 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Mark 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath
It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?
1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exodus 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Exodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matthew 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts of the Apostles 16:13; Matthew 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Exodus 34:14; 1Kings 9:6; Revelation 14:6-12)
Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)
WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?
WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 16:22-23; Matthew 21:13).
.............
There is no purpose in following any of God's Laws including the SABBATH if it is not done through faith that works by love because it is only as God writes His Law to love in our hearts that we can take up our beds to follow him. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who believe and follow God's Word (Romans 13:8-10; 1 John 5:3-4). Hope this is helpful. If you would like something specific please feel free to ask.
God bless
Yes, but that doesn't answer my question.
I don't have a paid job and do not work 6 days a week; what does it mean to keep the Sabbath? I do voluntary work, yes - occasionally, not every day.
I don't have sons, daughters, manservants, cattle or strangers within my gate.
Fine; but often what I do, or don't do, on a Saturday is no different to the rest of the week.
God is outside time - he only dwelt within it when he came to earth in Jesus.The hours of light and darkness vary considerably depending on what country you're in and the time of the year. At the moment for us in the UK, it gets dark at about 9pm - though even that varies across the country - and is light at about 6.a.m (though I'm not awake to verify that.) On our shortest day in Dec it gets light around 8.30 a.m and is dark by 3.30pm. So if your day is when it is light, and night is when it is dark; the saying "no 2 days are alike" must be literally true.
Again, the time of sunset varies - every day it is a minute earlier or later. Are we supposed to work out when sunset occurs on all the Fridays in the year, just so that we don't do some work at the wrong time?
Again, that doesn't answer my question; I do no paid work, just voluntary work for charities. It sounds like I can therefore do this any day; sabbath or not.
I try to do this every day; it doesn't answer my question about why set aside one special day to do what I do pretty much all the time?
For many, cooking is not work, but an act of love. Some cook for friends, those who are sick or the homeless - and you've already said that we can do good on the sabbath. Ditto shopping and cleaning - shopping for others, cleaning their houses, and your own; using your gifts as a homemaker. Matthew 21:13 says nothing about the Sabbath and you have taken the Exodus verses out of context.
Thank you for your time, but none of what you have said actually answers my question. Over the years, people have said and argued that I SHOULD keep the sabbath - given my status as someone who does not work 6 days a week and worships, and lives for, God every day; how do I keep 1 day that is different? And what, in fact, will be different about it to what I do every day?
A question I have and is always on my mind during all of it:
Jesus is the Son of God and would never make anyone break the commandments. Everyone agrees on that. For example, Jesus would NEVER make anyone covet the neighbor or to steal, to not love the neighbor, etc.
So, what is the explanation of Jesus making other people break the Sabbath, both on Luke 6:1 and John 5:8-11?
You are surmising my friend.Hello HIM nice to see you. Hebrews 4:4 is not a reference to Mt Sinai. I posted this earlier to someone else but did not send you a link to it (my apologies). Let's look at the scriptures.
Hebrews 4:4 [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
is a direct reference the original rest in Genesis 2:2…
God bless.
No dear friend I posted scripture verbatim, it is God's Word not mine.You are surmising my friend.
Verse 3 has God speaking.
Verse 4 has God speaking and that certain place was on Mt. Sinai. For it is written.
God spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt. Sinai not on the Seventh Day. In Genesis one the words "God said" is used on each day. In Chapter 2 verse 2 it is not. Therefore He did not speak of the Seventh Day in any wise. He rested. If He would have said anything in any wise in respect to the Seventh Day it would be stated as in chapter 1. Please do not add what is not there.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
It is a direct reference to God speaking of the Seventh day on Mt. Sinai.No dear friend I posted scripture verbatim, it is God's Word not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish.
Hebrews 4:4 [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
is a direct reference the original rest in Genesis 2:2…
It is a direct reference to God speaking of the Seventh day on Mt. Sinai.
It is not verbatim and God did not speak of the Seventh Day on the Seventh day in any wise.
He spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinai.
You are surmising, adding what is not written.
Not at all.No dear friend. I posted what was written verbatim (word for word). They are God's Word not my words and God's Word says Hebrews 4:4 is in reference to Genesis 2:2. Check Hebrews 4:4 verbatim with Exodus 20:8-11. It does not say what Hebrews 4:3 (foundation of the world) says and Hebrews 4:4 says. Now compared this with Hebrews 4:3-4 and Genesis 2:2. It is verbatim and fits the context of Hebrews 4:3 which is creation (foundation of the world). These are God's Words verbatim. Not my words.
Hope this is helpful.
Not at all.
NO they are not verbatim in the Greek or Hebrew. You are adding what is not there to fit your theology. God did not speak of the Seventh Day on the Seventh Day. That really is all that is to it. He spoke of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinai.
We are done in respect to this my friend and will not continue in this line any further with you.
May the Lord our God continue to Bless us in all His Way, Jesus Christ.
Love you brother.
Y In the weight of the overwhelming evidence as shown above and making the scriptures our final word of authority and considering the full context of Hebrews 4:1-9 that defines our rest through believing and following God's Word *Hebrews 4:1-3 and Gods' rest as the "seventh day" Sabbath from the foundation of the world in Genesis 2:2 from Hebrews 4:3-4 we can see Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance still remains for the people of God who believe and follow His Word.
Perhaps you need to pray for yourself here dear friend and consider what is being shared with you from the scriptures. Please stop putting prayer ratings on my posts thankyou.
We are done in respect to this my friend and will not continue in this line any further with you.
Agreed with the context.Let's take a look pasifika, tall73. Please follow along.
We called to exhort one another continuously lest any of us be hardened in the heart through the deceitfulness of sin. For we only remain partakers of Christ if our hearts are not hardened by sin and remain in the confidence, the faith of Christ.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 for we have become partakers of the Christ, if we may hold fast the confidence we had at the beginning to the end,
Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
For some whom believed in the wilderness did provoke, roused indignation and their carcases fell in the the desert and they did not enter God's rest, the promised land. Which here in chapter 3 is synonymous to the rest we NOW have in partaking of Christ if we hold firm our confidence, faith firm unto the end. Not having our hearts hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Because we see that they in the wilderness could not partake of the prefigured rest due to unbelief; disobedience.
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
So fear, lest the promise of His Rest, the partaking of Christ any of us be accounted deficient, fall short of it. For unto us the Gospel was preached, the partaking of Christ, His Rest.
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem (be accounted) to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
And we who have believed do enter into His rest, the Gospel, the partaking of Christ.
Shall they enter in my Rest, the partaking of Christ, the Gospel ALTHOUGH THE WORKS FOR THIS REST WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD? For God spake in a certain place, Mt. Sinai of the Seventh Day on this wise, And God did rest, cease the Seventh Day from ALL His works. Including the works for our salvation through the Lamb slain from the foundation of the World. (Rev 13:8)
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest.
And this again HE SAYS in verse 5. IN THIS AGAIN WHAT? Context and grammar bring us back to verse 4. So, IN this Again He speaks.
WHAT DOES HE SPEAK? HE SPEAKS, of the Seventh Day IF they shall enter in my rest, the rest that is of the Gospel, the partaking of Christ. THIS with verse 9 IS THE COMMANDMENT for the Sabbath for ALL that say IT IS NOT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.
SO how does He speak it? As He did on Mt Sinai. As a Matter of fact, as a commandment for all who partake of Christ, His Rest which is of the Gospel. For God has said, There remaineth therefore a Sabbath Keeping to the people of God. For he that has entered into his rest, the rest in which is of the Gospel. He ALSO hath Ceased from his own works AS GOD did from His. (vs 9 and 10)
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath Keeping to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
A few things NEED TO BE NOTED from verse 9. Two separate things are being mentioned contextually. THE rest which is of the Gospel, the partaking of Christ And a ceasing from work AS God did. HOW DO WE KNOW there are 2?
Because the word "ALSO" tells us there are two separate things being spoken of here. THIS IS A FACT One is the rest, the partaking of Christ which has been entered. And because of entering into that Rest we are ALSO to cease from our work AS God did from His.
How did God cease from working? He stop working. Did He enter into a Spiritual Rest? NO, He is always in that state He is God. HE CEASED FROM WORK, physical work. THE WORD AS denotes a direct comparison. So we who have entered into the Rest, the partaking of Christ, a rest which is Spiritual ALSO cease from our own work AS GOD DID from His. WE Stop our physical labor on the SEVENTH DAY AS HE DID and We keep the DAY holy through our partaking of CHRIST, the rest which He offers that is of the Gospel..
Answered with the following...
Ok, so you say I SHOULD refrain from work on a Saturday - I don't have a job, so what is work?What would it mean for me to keep the Sabbath - how do I do it?
- Refrain from all work on a Saturday?
I'm not in paid employment, so I'm not labouring for 6 days.- Refrain from all work on a Sunday?
See above.- Refrain from work, except if it's helping others?
Great; I can do a voluntary work shift then, just as I do the rest of the week.- Take one day out to worship God?
I worship God every day. Scripture says "whatever you do, do it with your whole heart as for the Lord" - so all my activities are worship, because I'm doing them for, and with, God.- The 7th day belongs to God?
ALL days belong to God - he made them.
The was already answered in the post you said did not answer your questions. Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath but the seventh day is a holy day of rest and in it we should not do any work that we normally do every other day of the week (see Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 12:1-12.
According to the scriptures the "seventh day" is to be a holy day of rest to remember God as the creator of Heaven and Earth and a celebration of God as the only true God of creation and our creator.
I am sure you can find many things you can do to make Gods' Sabbath day a special day of rest and dedication solely to God as shown in my earlier post to you?
I thought it did answer your question as Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
What we cannot do though is our own work
God does not want us to do these things on His holy day
All these things you mentioned in your post can be done on the preparation day before the Sabbath starts according to the scriptures.
Your very welcome but I disagree that your questions have not been answered.
It is time that God has asked his people to put aside as a holy day of rest that he has blessed and set apart for us to be with him
By breaking Gods' 4th commandment we are in fact stealing Gods' time that he has set apart as a Holy full day of rest to be with him.
Strong in Him said: ↑
What would it mean for me to keep the Sabbath - how do I do it?
- Refrain from all work on a Saturday?
I'm not in paid employment, so I'm not labouring for 6 days.- Refrain from all work on a Sunday?
See above.- Refrain from work, except if it's helping others?
Great; I can do a voluntary work shift then, just as I do the rest of the week.- Take one day out to worship God?
I worship God every day. Scripture says "whatever you do, do it with your whole heart as for the Lord" - so all my activities are worship, because I'm doing them for, and with, God.- The 7th day belongs to God?
ALL days belong to God - he made them.
Ok, so you say I SHOULD refrain from work on a Saturday - I don't have a job, so what is work?
"6 days shall you labour"; I don't labour any days,
church pastoral work make up my week. It seems that all these activities would be permitted on the Sabbath - doing good, and relaxing.
So there's no difference.
As I said: EVERY day belongs to God, and Scripture says that whatever you do do, whether in word or deed, do it ALL in the name of the Lord, Colossians 3:17. A few verses on Paul says, "whatever you do work at it with your whole heart", Colossians 3:23.
So any kind of work - even the dull, routine stuff - is to be done wholeheartedly, in the name of the Lord.
No, it is a day on which he asked the Hebrews to rest and be with him - we are with him always, and he with us. We are to abide in the vine 24/7, 7 days a week; not just one.
.
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