About 'magic'

[Caleb-D]

Does magic still exist today? I know
this may sound like a dumb question as no one has scientifically proven its existence, but the Bible prohibits the use of it, and describes the event of ancient egyptians using it, so you can't really deny the fact that it's not hocus pocus (no pun intended).

What I want to know is, if magic just doesn't exist anymore, is it ok to even pretend to use magic by imitating Harry Potter or singing songs with spells from tv shows? I read this blog written by a Christian who said he taught his child to keep a distance from Disney's 'frozen' because it's got a witch in it, and it did sound ridiculous at first, but at the same time I thought he had a point. Let me know your thoughts on this. Thank you.

 

[OneChristianLight]

After someone makes an infernal pact, Satan will give that person a familiar demon who will assist him in achieving whatever he bargained for. Magic is real, but it isn't like what you see on Harry Potter; it's the possessing spirit who does work (or sorcery) for the Satanist that is called "magic."

Stay far away from magic – it's all evil. There have been some people like the rap star Eminem who have made pacts with the Devil to achieve exceptional success in life, but there's always a catch. When the bargain expires after an agreed period of time, Satan will murder the person with whom he made a bargain and take him to hell.

 

[Goodbook]

Stay away.
Yes its still exists, though by necissity its hidden practices and occult.
Wicca, new age, all hindu, buddhist religions, spiritualism, clairvoyancy, idolatrous music, voodoo, mind power, pharmaceuticals and drugs are forms of magic.

There are still witches today, they havent stopped practising witchcraft. Its rebellion against God. Many womens magazines propogate this form of witchcraft which is worshipping yourself. Through yoga, beauty routines to stay forever young, making images, sex spell charms etc.

 

[Greg J.]

By the way, it is never too late to renounce it. Jesus takes everybody who's willing to go to him. Entrusting yourself to God vastly overrides everything, including "packs with Satan." However, it may cost the person so much, that he might not be willing to stick with that decision. It is a sin to dabble in it, but it also will make it harder for the person to yield to Jesus' Lordship and be saved (just as all sin does).

 

[Caleb-D]

Stay away.
Yes its still exists, though by necissity its hidden practices and occult.
Wicca, new age, all hindu, buddhist religions, spiritualism, clairvoyancy, idolatrous music, voodoo, mind power, pharmaceuticals and drugs are forms of magic.

There are still witches today, they havent stopped practising witchcraft. Its rebellion against God. Many womens magazines propogate this form of witchcraft which is worshipping yourself. Through yoga, beauty routines to stay forever young, making images, sex spell charms etc.

Thank you all for your replies. However, my question wasn't whether or not it is ok to use magic. I wanted to know whether watching movies portraying witches like Harry Potter as heros or playing games like 'the witcher' is ok since they are not real. I honestly don't feel it's ok to do so, but if someone has a different opinion please let me know.

 

[LaSorcia]

Unfortunately, magic really does exist. I've had too many personal experiences with my own use and seeing what others have done to think otherwise. The only acceptable 'magic' is alchemy. Only God can do it: bringing something good out of something bad. Christians can do 'magic' by loving God, others, and ourselves. Practice this and you will see results.

Elemental magic and necromancy and witchcraft are forbidden in the bible, and with good reason. It is the truth mixed with falsehood.

 

[OneChristianLight]

Thank you all for your replies. However, my question wasn't whether or not it is ok to use magic. I wanted to know whether watching movies portraying witches like Harry Potter as heros or playing games like 'the witcher' is ok since they are not real. I honestly don't feel it's ok to do so, but if someone has a different opinion please let me know.

There isn't anything wrong with playing a video game with magic or watching a movie involving magic, but only so long as it's the fictional/fantasy type and doesn't involve anything Satanic.

 

[Greg J.]

Actually, matters like that fall into the category of "disputable matters." That's what Romans 14 is about.

It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. (Romans 14:21-22, 1984 NIV)

You need the Holy Spirit to know if it is OK or wrong for you to do it. It very well may be solidly wrong or solidly OK for you, but it is not explicitly made clear in Scripture. i.e., video games are not referenced in the Bible by name, which means fallible (and good) human judgment must be a part of the evaluation of its sinfulness.

... Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. (bold mine, Romans 14:5b, 1984 NIV) This is a reference to the conviction a person can have that can be from the Holy Spirit, but it still holds true even when it is not from Him. If you believe it is wrong, then it is wrong for you (Romans 2:12). If you're not sure, then you need to study the matter (examine Scripture, ask elders) and pray to give God a chance to guide you. (Sometimes you'll discover it is covered in Scripture.)

Much spiritual abuse has happened to people because someone applied the fact that something that was immoral for themselves to other people, when it was actually a disputable matter. Hence, the admonition quoted above to keep what you believe between you and God. You don't know whether it is OK or not for someone else. But you can behave so that they will not see you doing something that is OK for you, but sinful for them.

What God left us was instruction on not judging your brother and instruction to correct your brother if he is sinning. Conflict between Christians arises because of lack of unity with the Holy Spirit, but God never meant life to be lived apart from the Holy Spirit.

Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. (Galatians 5:25, 1984 NIV)

 

[Noxot]

I used to be a paranoid christian. I have on several occasions threw away something I owned that I thought was evil. I really don't got time to be scared of stuff that most of the time is pretty ridiculous. frozen? seriously? I recently looked up this guy who was doing black magic on youtube and I also read the comments on those videos and the entire situation was pretty pathetic. a bunch of Christians acting very unchristian to the poor guy who probably has a mental disorder.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Does magic still exist today? I know
this may sound like a dumb question as no one has scientifically proven its existence, but the Bible prohibits the use of it, and describes the event of ancient egyptians using it, so you can't really deny the fact that it's not hocus pocus (no pun intended).

What I want to know is, if magic just doesn't exist anymore, is it ok to even pretend to use magic by imitating Harry Potter or singing songs with spells from tv shows? I read this blog written by a Christian who said he taught his child to keep a distance from Disney's 'frozen' because it's got a witch in it, and it did sound ridiculous at first, but at the same time I thought he had a point. Let me know your thoughts on this. Thank you.

Magic, as in super powers, never existed. Different ancient peoples believed that there was power by invoking the gods, or by performing certain rituals--but these were religious rituals and forms of religious practice; forms of religious practice that was forbidden by God for His people. But nobody actually had the power to know the future by stargazing or throwing some bones on the ground, nobody had the power to speak to dead people, nobody could do these things because that stuff can't happen. The gods of the nations are deaf, mute, blind idols--they aren't gods, they don't exist. And there's little indication that even the devils are capable of giving people "super powers", what the devils have is the ability to deceive, deception is the devil's game.

An interesting example might be the witch of Endor, Saul disguises himself and comes to this self-proclaimed medium and she herself seems to be completely shocked and terrified when something actually happens--an apparition of Samuel appears and condemns Saul for his actions.

We read in the book of the Acts that there was a young slave girl who was possessed by a demon who made her masters a lot of money by divining the future, Paul casts the demon out and she no longer is divining the future--some might argue she actually could divine the future--a point I am unconvinced on. Because only God is eternal and omnipresent, if the girl could know the future then that means the devil has god-like power, an idea that I would consider bordering on blasphemy if not fully crossing over into blasphemy. The reality is more likely that she, like many hucksters and frauds even today, was engaging in trickery, deceit, and the like.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jipsah]

Does magic still exist today?

It never did. "Magic" has always been a scam of some sort.

but the Bible prohibits the use of it

It prohibits the acts that "magicians", read conmen, bunko artists, grifters, men stealers, poisoners, false prophets, swindlers, and other such low-lives, used to rob and enslave their victims. There is not now, nor has there ever been, any actual "magic".

so you can't really deny the fact that it's not hocus pocus (no pun intended).

It was hocus pocus. The Egyptian magicians were illusionists, just as all magicians are. There is no magic.

is it ok to even pretend to use magic by imitating Harry Potter or singing songs with spells from tv shows?

Purely imaginary stuff, and as long as everyone knows ift all's well. When it starts being palmed off as "powers" and starts being used to manipulate the credulous, then it's the bad kind.

I read this blog written by a Christian who said he taught his child to keep a distance from Disney's 'frozen' because it's got a witch in it, and it did sound ridiculous at first, but at the same time I thought he had a point. Let me know your thoughts on this. Thank you.

Stage magic and story magic are harmless unless you start believing in them, at which point you leave yourself open to manipulation by "magicians" who want to deceive you and make merchandise of you. That is what God hates.

 

[Jipsah]

After someone makes an infernal pact, Satan will give that person a familiar demon who will assist him in achieving whatever he bargained for.

Scripture says no such thing.

Magic is real, but it isn't like what you see on Harry Potter; it's the possessing spirit who does work (or sorcery) for the Satanist that is called "magic."

See anything like that in the Bible? No, you do not. You see demons tormenting people and causing them to throw themselves into fires and such. No "magic". The slave girl often cited as having diabolical powers to tell the future was a poor afflicted slave girl herself. There is nothing to indicate that she had any actual power at all. Another pathetic victim.

Stay far away from magic – it's all evil. There have been some people like the rap star Eminem who have made pacts with the Devil to achieve exceptional success in life, but there's always a catch. When the bargain expires after an agreed period of time, Satan will murder the person with whom he made a bargain and take him to hell.

Pure fiction, with zero biblical support. There's nothing, nothing, in the Bible to lead one to believe Satan will, or even can, grant anyone "powers", through any agency at all.

 

[OneChristianLight]

Scripture says no such thing.

See anything like that in the Bible? No, you do not. You see demons tormenting people and causing them to throw themselves into fires and such. No "magic". The slave girl often cited as having diabolical powers to tell the future was a poor afflicted slave girl herself. There is nothing to indicate that she had any actual power at all. Another pathetic victim.

Pure fiction, with zero biblical support. There's nothing, nothing, in the Bible to lead one to believe Satan will, or even can, grant anyone "powers", through any agency at all.

The term "Bible" doesn't appear in scripture. You're also wrong about familiar spirits, infernal entities, and occult practices not appearing in scripture. Deuteronomy 18:10-11 says, "Let no one be found among you [...] who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead."

You can read on the Internet about actual cases where people like Eminem and John Lennon have made bargains with the Devil to gain immense fame. Obviously none of these examples appear in scripture, as these events took place long after the Bible was composed, but that doesn't change the fact it is very real.

You wrote to me with nothing in mind to contribute meaningfully to this discussion, but instead told me (incorrectly, as I pointed out with actual scripture references) that occult practices don't appear Bible and thought you "won" the argument. Next time you want to argue with me, please try to be accurate.

 

[LaSorcia]

Acts 16:16 One day as we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl with a spirit of clairvoyance, who earned a large income for her masters by fortune-telling.

 

[Jipsah]

The term "Bible" doesn't appear in scripture.

Neither does Chevrolet or paramecium.

You're also wrong about familiar spirits, infernal entities, and occult practices not appearing in scripture. Deuteronomy 18:10-11 says, "Let no one be found among you [...] who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead."

What powers does Scripture attribute to such critters? I don't see any. They're frauds and deceivers, and God doesn't like that sort of thing very much. The idea that such varmints have "powers" of some sort is pure superstition, with zero support from Scripture.

You can read on the Internet about actual cases where people like Eminem and John Lennon have made bargains with the Devil to gain immense fame.

On the Internet, forsooth! Well, I guess that settles that! Seriously, though, is there any species of hogwash that you can't find on the Internet?

Obviously none of these examples appear in scripture, as these events took place long after the Bible was composed, but that doesn't change the fact it is very real.

And i should believe that because...?

I pointed out with actual scripture references) that occult practices don't appear Bible and thought you "won" the argument. Next time you want to argue with me, please try to be accurate.

Let's recap, then. There is no "magic", never has been, never will be. The Bible does not support any such notion, at all, ever. Belief in Satan-granted magical powers is superstition. The stuff that pagans call "magic" or "magick" is simply praying to their nonexistent "gods". I don't really care how many nincompoops on the Internet believe in magic, it's still hogwash.

 

[Jipsah]

Acts 16:16 One day as we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl with a spirit of clairvoyance, who earned a large income for her masters by fortune-telling.

I know people in Nashville who make their living fortune telling. They do not, by my observation, live off the fortunes they've made in day trading as I would if I had powers to tell the future. These "psychics" are frauds and deceivers. The poor slave girl was demon possessed, but we're given no reason to believe that she knew anything more about the future than anyone else. There is no magic, and there are no satanically granted "powers". Matter if fact, the only one who stands to gain by people believing in magic and diabolical "powers" is Satan, the Father of Lies himself. Lying and deceiving is just his game.

 

[OneChristianLight]

Neither does Chevrolet or paramecium.

This is a non-sequitur. If you want to disagree with me, make an argument.

What powers does Scripture attribute to such critters? I don't see any. They're frauds and deceivers, and God doesn't like that sort of thing very much. The idea that such varmints have "powers" of some sort is pure superstition, with zero support from Scripture.

The scripture I quoted says that God’s adherents cannot practice divination, sorcery, witchcraft, and spell-casting, nor are they allowed to engage with spirits from hell. It does not say, “Let there be no one among you who practices fraud by fortune-telling, palm reading, and astrology.” Read the context carefully. It’s clear the Bible is talking about actual occult practices, not fraud.

On the Internet, forsooth! Well, I guess that settles that! Seriously, though, is there any species of hogwash that you can't find on the Internet?

If you actually did some research on people who made bargains with the Devil like Eminem and John Lennon from the Beatles, you would see that it's accurate, well-sourced, and true. The fact that you can find ridiculous things on the Internet doesn't mean that all information online is false.

 

[Jipsah]

[/quote] Look up "non sequitur". And what sort of argument would you like against the rather obvious statement that the Bible doesn't contain the word bible. If there was a point being ,made there I missed it.

The scripture I quoted says that God’s adherents cannot practice divination, sorcery, witchcraft, and spell-casting, nor are they allowed to engage with spirits from hell. It does not say, “Let there be no one among you who practices fraud by fortune-telling, palm reading, and astrology.” Read the context carefully. It’s clear the Bible is talking about actual occult practices, not fraud.

Your assumption, which I reject. There is nothing in history or Scripture to indicate that anyone has ever had magical powers, or that Satan has the power to grant such powers even if he wanted to. It's superstition.

If you actually did some research on people who made bargains with the Devil like Eminem and John Lennon from the Beatles, you would see that it's accurate, well-sourced, and true.

Nonsense, end to end.

 

[Dkh587]

It never did. "Magic" has always been a scam of some sort.

It prohibits the acts that "magicians", read conmen, bunko artists, grifters, men stealers, poisoners, false prophets, swindlers, and other such low-lives, used to rob and enslave their victims. There is not now, nor has there ever been, any actual "magic".

It was hocus pocus. The Egyptian magicians were illusionists, just as all magicians are. There is no magic.

Purely imaginary stuff, and as long as everyone knows ift all's well. When it starts being palmed off as "powers" and starts being used to manipulate the credulous, then it's the bad kind.

Stage magic and story magic are harmless unless you start believing in them, at which point you leave yourself open to manipulation by "magicians" who want to deceive you and make merchandise of you. That is what God hates.

It wasn't illusion when the Pharoah's magicians turned their staffs into snakes. Pharoah's magicians were also able to turn water into blood, and they were able to bring frogs out of the Nile river onto the land using dark/occultic Magic. These weren't illusions and deception. It was real

They did these things through occultic arts/dark magic

We are supposed to stay away from all that stuff(the occult/magic/divination etc). It's out there but as children of the Most High, we dont mess with it


“And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭7:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the fish that was in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt. And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the Lord had said.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭7:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the frogs came up, and covered the land of Egypt. And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭8:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Jipsah]

It wasn't illusion when the Pharoah's magicians turned their staffs into snakes. Pharoah's magicians were also able to turn water into blood, and they were able to bring frogs out of the Nile river onto the land using dark/occultic Magic. These weren't illusions and deception. It was real

Just like if I tell you that a stage conjurer saws a woman in half that it was real. The Bible doesn't say how they did it, and provides no reason to believe that it was more than stage conjuring. Hey, Harari moved Diamond Head in Hawaii, David Copperfield vanished an elephant, David Blaine levitates off the street, and since those things are clearly impossible, they must be examples of Satanic Power, right? Wrong. It's just good stagecraft. But we don't say "David Blaine, using an old reliable magic trick, made it appear to his audience that he levitated above the street. We desscribe the illusion, because most folks don't know how he did it. Same with the accounts of the "magic" performed by the Egyptian magicians.

They did these things through occultic arts/dark magic

You insert the superstitious belief that they created the iillusion via "dark magic", when in fact the Scripture says no such thing. You're imposing your own beliefs on the Bible and saying "Thus saith the Lord." Doubleplus ungood.

We are supposed to stay away from all that stuff(the occult/magic/divination etc). It's out there but as children of the Most High, we dont mess with it

I.E, we're supposed to keep away from frauds, deceivers, peddlers of pagan "religions", and any others who serve the Father of Lies. Attributing magic powers to them is simple nonsense.

“And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the Lord had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭7:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yep, God set at naught the deceptions of the "magicians", whose art was, then as now, to create illusions.

Satan lies and says "I can give you magic powers." and superstitious Christians make haste to aver that what the Father of Lies said was true. I prefer not to carry water for the ultimate deceiver.