Abortions????

[Nige55]

The 'financial health/ stability' line (parent's can't afford to raise a child) also assumes that it's better to be dead than grow up in a poor family. By statistics alone, that's the situation a huge percentage of the world are in.
It also denies people of the reality of responsibility - if you're 'grown up' enough to have sex, you need to be able to provide for a child.
It's just so wrong on so many levels, it's hard to know where to start.

 

[Dave L]

I know this is going to open a can of worms, but I just had a thought. Christians who are against abortions, I'm curious as to why you would rather a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven before enduring any suffering? As far as I can remember children are granted automatic entry into heaven until they can be held accountable. So why deny a child a chance to have a loving home with your heavenly father instead of being raised in foster care, or worse? I don't get it.

Do babies automatically go to heaven if they die?

 

[RaymondG]

I can do better than that! I command, in the Name of Jesus, that every part of your body resumes it normal function and every disablement be put right and all pain go completely!! The Scripture says "I am the Lord who heals you!!" You don't need any faith for this to happen, because I have enough faith for both of us! If you have enough faith to say to the Lord, "I receive it!" Then I have obeyed the Lord and honoured His Word and so have you. Then the results will be from the Lord in His time, and I hope that He doesn't take too long about it, just to prove that He is more powerful than your disability.

I think you would have a better chance persuading people to agree with abortion, than you would persuading them that God still does miracles today....

 

[RaymondG]

Why not just drown our children? Wouldn't that accomplish the same thing?

Do you really believe that drowning a child, who has lived for a while, has the same physical and emotional affects on a child as terminating a pregnancy has on the unborn child?

 

[NW82]

I know this is going to open a can of worms, but I just had a thought. Christians who are against abortions, I'm curious as to why you would rather a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven before enduring any suffering? As far as I can remember children are granted automatic entry into heaven until they can be held accountable. So why deny a child a chance to have a loving home with your heavenly father instead of being raised in foster care, or worse? I don't get it.

Because murder is wrong.

 

[RaymondG]

Not just infants and children, why not the homeless as well? Drug addicts? The handicapped? Anyone we deem to be suffering?

Do you really feel that killing one who have known and experienced life is comparable to killing one who has never breathe before?

 

[HTacianas]

Do you really believe that drowning a child, who has lived for a while, has the same physical and emotional affects on a child as terminating a pregnancy has on the unborn child?

I believe that an unborn child meets every scientific definition of life, and it is a member of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens, therefore is a human life.

 

[RaymondG]

Abortion is wrong son its evil . If you know a girl who is thinking about doing it .Tell her its wrong tell her adoption is the way to go .God said " Thou shall no kill " that's very clear. God gives life and God takes life we can't play God .

Would you tell this to a young girl, knowing that going through with the pregnancy will kill her......or would you make exceptions for this wrong, evil killing for this and/or other reasons?

 

[Yekcidmij]

The 'financial health/ stability' line (parent's can't afford to raise a child) also assumes that it's better to be dead than grow up in a poor family. By statistics alone, that's the situation a huge percentage of the world are in.

This is a good point. The OP implies that poor people are better off dead. Would hate for the OP to have to help other people or carry out Jesus' commands.

The OP devalues human life on several levels.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Do you really feel that killing one who have known and experienced life is comparable to killing one who has never breathe before?

So is it different degrees of experience or the number of times one's lungs fill with air that determine when we can kill humans? If one has less than X experiences, then it's ok to kill them. Or if one's lungs haven't yet inflated it's ok to kill them.

 

[Nige55]

Do you really feel that killing one who have known and experienced life is comparable to killing one who has never breathe before?

Flawed argument. It then raises the question - how much life experience is justifiable ? A day ? 2 hours ? 2 weeks ? It's simply playing God.

 

[RaymondG]

I believe that an unborn child meets every scientific definition of life, and it is a member of the species Homo Sapiens Sapiens, therefore is a human life.

This argument is understood and respected......It is the argument that one who terminates a pregnancy is also capable of killing an adult or a random kid at play, that gives me pause.... Statements like these devalues good arguments like the one in this post....because they render the speaker erratic...therefore tainting all words spoken.

 

[Loren T.]

I know this is going to open a can of worms, but I just had a thought. Christians who are against abortions, I'm curious as to why you would rather a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven before enduring any suffering? As far as I can remember children are granted automatic entry into heaven until they can be held accountable. So why deny a child a chance to have a loving home with your heavenly father instead of being raised in foster care, or worse? I don't get it.

You don't get why it is wrong to kill your child?

 

[RaymondG]

So is it different degrees of experience or the number of times one's lungs fill with air that determine when we can kill humans? If one has less than X experiences, then it's ok to kill them. Or if one's lungs haven't yet inflated it's ok to kill them.

Are you able to have a logical, objective, emotionless conversation? If, not, maybe its time you step aside and let those that can, do so.

This is not about killing people.....if you want to call it killing... it is about killing, the unborn. You dont have to add going to a playground and killing random kids, or resort to randomly unplugging machine at the hospitals. These types of emotional plays are unproductive....but they can increase you "like" score.

I can answer to, or understand the feelings of one in the womb......but i can relate to those of adults or children.....therefore I cannot compare them.

You questioned the importance of breathe in the lungs. When adam was formed from the dust.....was the breath God blew into him important to you? or was it irrelevant?

 

[NW82]

Not just infants and children, why not the homeless as well? Drug addicts? The handicapped? Anyone we deem to be suffering?

Agreed...it's a slippery slope, where does it stop?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Are you able to have a logical, objective, emotionless conversation? If, not, maybe its time you step aside and let those that can, do so.

Now I'm curious as to how you're able to remotely evaluate my emotional state.

This is not about killing people.....if you want to call it killing... it is about killing, the unborn.

This is where the real disagreement lies. Is the unborn child a human or not.

You dont have to add going to a playground and killing random kids, or resort to randomly unplugging machine at the hospitals.

I think the point is to check for consistency. Of course the situations presented are absurd, but given the principles in question, are those situations consistent with those principles?

These types of emotional plays are unproductive....but they can increase you "like" score.

I'm not sure what a like score is or why you think I'm interested in it. But feel free to continue evaluating my motives and emotional state.

I can answer to, or understand the feelings of one in the womb......but i can relate to those of adults or children.....therefore I cannot compare them.

Well, I disagree that relatability is a principle of justice, so our ability to relate or not is beside the point. Just because one may not be able to relate to another doesn't mean that it's therefore ok to extinguish their life.

You questioned the importance of breathe in the lungs. When adam was formed from the dust.....was the breath God blew into him important to you? or was it irrelevant?

Assuming a literal interpretation of Genesis for the moment, I'm not clear how it's valid to compare the development process of Adam (and Eve as well I suppose) and the development process of everyone since and then proceed to draw general rules about what qualifies as human.

 

[RaymondG]

Flawed argument. It then raises the question - how much life experience is justifiable ? A day ? 2 hours ? 2 weeks ? It's simply playing God.

I think we can assume the feeling of those 1 second old and up. It is of those who havent breathe yet that I can understand. Therefore, it is the likening of the unborn to the born child and adult that I dont get. I can understand the assumption that one who grabs a baby from their crib and ends its life, is capable of ending the life of anyone. Yet, I would not say the same about one who terminates a pregnancy......that they could kill anyone...so beware.

I just think this thread would be more productive if comparisons like these are eliminated. There are good scientific evidence of life....good scriptures against killing etc... Adding these persuasive emotional statements, used to remove logic and run on feelings, only detracts from the solid arguments/statements......because they all come from the same source/group.

 

[Newtheran]

I know this is going to open a can of worms, but I just had a thought. Christians who are against abortions, I'm curious as to why you would rather a child suffer in this life, rather than being sent to heaven before enduring any suffering? As far as I can remember children are granted automatic entry into heaven until they can be held accountable. So why deny a child a chance to have a loving home with your heavenly father instead of being raised in foster care, or worse? I don't get it.

1. Your assumption is that the child of an unplanned pregnancy will suffer in life to a greater extent than other people. This may or may not be true.
2. Your assumption ignores the suffering that an unborn baby goes through when it is killed in utero.
3. Your assumption ignores God's command not to murder.

 

[Nige55]

I think we can assume the feeling of those 1 second old and up. It is of those who havent breathe yet that I can understand. Therefore, it is the likening of the unborn to the born child and adult that I dont get. I can understand the assumption that one who grabs a baby from their crib and ends its life, is capable of ending the life of anyone. Yet, I would not say the same about one who terminates a pregnancy......that they could kill anyone...so beware.

I just think this thread would be more productive if comparisons like these are eliminated. There are good scientific evidence of life....good scriptures against killing etc... Adding these persuasive emotional statements, used to remove logic and run on feelings, only detracts from the solid arguments/statements......because they all come from the same source/group.

Using good scriptures against killing are often not used as the debate usually lies with people who are non believers. I'd make the bold assumption of saying that most believers would be pro life (I'd hope, anyway).
You seem to be a little hung up on the breath / breathing thing. Not sure why. There are plenty of living beings on earth that don't breathe our air directly. Also, - babies get oxygen in the womb.
Would you say an unborn baby is not alive, as it doesn't use it's lungs yet ?
I think that the reason people extend their parallels and comparisons to the extreme (killing people, kids etc) is to simply highlight the absurdity of the notion that we should or could decide when it's ok to take a life.
The one second old and up part - what a shame for poor babies who are 15 mins away from delivery, or 5 mins - so nearly made it ! That child is basically no different before or after that one second, that's the bottom line.

 

[TuxAme]

Do you really feel that killing one who have known and experienced life is comparable to killing one who has never breathe before?

A human life is a human life. Whether someone has breathed on their own or not doesn't change the fact that they're a human being.