Abortion

[cakes&buttercream]

I actually donlt always agree with a persons reasons for aborting. But I support their right to chose. There is a HUGE difference between saying you have a right to chose and saying you know you should get that abortion! The way I see it I would love abortions to be something that is legal and RARE. But apparently making it illegal doesn;t lower the rate of abortions so obviously we need to look at other solutions. Also I donlt believe God creates all the babies otherwise donlt you think he would make sure they were wanted? That women who were in situations where a baby was wanted? Not to mention what about all the babies that are naturally aborted?

And I donlt see how I am shying away from the grueseome aspects of it. Or using soft language or whatever. and if I am how is that any different then prolifers calling embyros and fetus's baby>? that is usually done to invoke a emotional response. .

Ditto.

 

[Weasel7711]

So lets abort some adults.

Hooray for mass genocide!

 

[nathans1987]

I'm know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I can say it because there are so many other crazy illogical statements going around that I think it will fit right in. Here's my statement, you can infer what you want; the world is overpopulated.

no and even if it is abortion is not the way to stop that!

Many jobs will not support a family. Many people donlt have a family that can or will help. Many people who find themselves pregnant and unwed will be shunned and outcast by their family and community. There are soo many situations that is why this is not a black and white kinda thing.

it is black and white. you either have the child or kill it. you havnt told me one example of how you wouldnt be able to keep a child. yes they can be expensive but i am sure you could not have all the fancy things that we want and it would be affordable, put it this way if you can afford to rent then you can afford to keep a child. and if you are not renting then you must be living at home with your parents and they can support you! you obviously have no faith in God

Philippians 4:19 This same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from his glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 9:8 And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others.

Philippians 4:19This same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from his glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus.

 

[Tuffguy]

I actually donlt always agree with a persons reasons for aborting. But I support their right to chose. There is a HUGE difference between saying you have a right to chose and saying you know you should get that abortion! The way I see it I would love abortions to be something that is legal and RARE. But apparently making it illegal doesn;t lower the rate of abortions so obviously we need to look at other solutions. Also I donlt believe God creates all the babies otherwise donlt you think he would make sure they were wanted? That women who were in situations where a baby was wanted? Not to mention what about all the babies that are naturally aborted?

.

You're actually saying that loosing a life naturally through miscarriage, is the same as a women purposefully having a life in her uterus scrapped out and thrown in the garbage, is the same thing????

Where is the logic in that? Are you actually contesting that both are God's will? Wow. Just wow.

 

[andross77]

1 Corinthians 13

 

[Luther073082]

Whatever happened to "I'm pro-choice, I choose to keep my pants up."

Mistakes happen but not fetus deserves to die because of your mistakes. Abortion is just another symptom of a culture of people not owning up to what they have done.

You wonder why so many guys become deadbeats? This is why! Abortion is a way to run away from her problems for a woman. For a man being a deadbeat is.

We should stop allowing women to run from her problems by killing her fetus. (When she choose sex) Just like we should stop letting men run away from their problems by allowing deadbeats avoid work. If you don't want to take care of your child, enjoy your time on the chain gang.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I'm gonna go punch some turtle eggs.

 

[Weasel7711]

Its sad that animals have more rights than unborn children. Actually its ridiculous and atrocious and quite sickening.

What's next? Killing off our parents when they get too old because they are a burden on society and "no one wants to be that old anyway"???

HOORAY HITLER!

 

[Calliso]

no and even if it is abortion is not the way to stop that!



it is black and white. you either have the child or kill it. you havnt told me one example of how you wouldnt be able to keep a child. yes they can be expensive but i am sure you could not have all the fancy things that we want and it would be affordable, put it this way if you can afford to rent then you can afford to keep a child. and if you are not renting then you must be living at home with your parents and they can support you! you obviously have no faith in God

Umm no just because you can afford rent doesn;t mean you can afford a kid. And many people live in really really bad neighbors in crappy apartments so that how they can afford rent. Not to mention what about things like good food and education? Sure maybe the mother may be able to make things work..but her child may end up getting a substandard education and so on. Also you seemed to miss the point about family shunning. Even if the personwas living with their parents not all parents are going to support the kid. Many families would kick the kid out. I admit it is hard for me to come up with good examples but that is likely because I have lived a good life. I never had to worry about whether I had clothes, a roof over my head, a good education or even where my next meal was coming from. I have never had to worry about getting shot either but many people live in neighborhoods where they do. Unfortunately many people aren;t this lucky. And I can;t blame someone for not wanting to have a child in that situation.

I also have plenty of faith in God, but he doesn;t always bail us out. Otherwise how to explain how there are devout Christians in the world that donlt even have enough to eat? God doesn;t always provide plain and simple that is why.

 

[Calliso]

Whatever happened to "I'm pro-choice, I choose to keep my pants up."

Mistakes happen but not fetus deserves to die because of your mistakes. Abortion is just another symptom of a culture of people not owning up to what they have done.

You wonder why so many guys become deadbeats? This is why! Abortion is a way to run away from her problems for a woman. For a man being a deadbeat is.

We should stop allowing women to run from her problems by killing her fetus. (When she choose sex) Just like we should stop letting men run away from their problems by allowing deadbeats avoid work. If you don't want to take care of your child, enjoy your time on the chain gang.

The thing is is that making abortion illegal doesn;t decrease the rate of abortions. If anything MORE people die because in addition to the fetus's dying many women die of illegal abortions too. So forcing women to have the kid to punish them for having sex *or whatever motive you have* does no good and even makes things worse.

 

[Calliso]

You're actually saying that loosing a life naturally through miscarriage, is the same as a women purposefully having a life in her uterus scrapped out and thrown in the garbage, is the same thing????

Where is the logic in that? Are you actually contesting that both are God's will? Wow. Just wow.

Umm no I didn;t say that.....

 

[Luther073082]

The thing is is that making abortion illegal doesn;t decrease the rate of abortions. If anything MORE people die because in addition to the fetus's dying many women die of illegal abortions too. So forcing women to have the kid to punish them for having sex *or whatever motive you have* does no good and even makes things worse.

Then let them die. They are already murders in my mind. If they die in the act, then they have received what they deserve. They are aware of the risks before they get the abortion anyways. They took the risk, they died. Oh well!

Here is the difference between me and them. Its that I own up to my mistakes! If something came out negativly because of what I choose to do, then I own up to it, I take all the negative that comes from that mistake.

Besides its not like adoption isn't an option. . . Oh but the birthing process is so painful blah blah blah boo hoo If you don't want to go through the birthing process then don't have sex. Pure and simple, sex is a choice with risk no matter how much protection you use. As you can see I'm open when it comes to rape because she didn't choose it. But when it comes to sex she choose to have then she can face the consequences.

But again all you are doing is trying to get someone off the hook for taking the responsibility of their mistakes. When I was a kid I learned to own up to what I did cause I got spanked even harder if I lied about it. And harder then that if it hurt someone else. (And they used a wooden paddle, not their hand). You choose sex, you get pregnant then have the baby and own up to it. Or have an illegal abortion and take the risk of death. You had choices and you had consequences and you knew ALL of them.

So no I don't care if it doesn't decrease the number of abortions. I really don't, if these women who choose to have sex want to risk death to do it. Let them die. I do not have sympathy for people who choose things like that I'm sorry.

If that makes me evil or mean then I'm evil or mean. But in the world I grew up in teaching someone to own up to their mistake isn't consider evil, in fact in that world its considered being a good parent. But apparently in this world now its considered abuse. In my world its also called tough love.

 

[Calliso]

Then let them die. They are already murders in my mind. If they die in the act, then they have received what they deserve. They are aware of the risks before they get the abortion anyways. They took the risk, they died. Oh well!

Here is the difference between me and them. Its that I own up to my mistakes! If something came out negativly because of what I choose to do, then I own up to it, I take all the negative that comes from that mistake.

Besides its not like adoption isn't an option. . . Oh but the birthing process is so painful blah blah blah boo hoo If you don't want to go through the birthing process then don't have sex. Pure and simple, sex is a choice with risk no matter how much protection you use. As you can see I'm open when it comes to rape because she didn't choose it. But when it comes to sex she choose to have then she can face the consequences.

But again all you are doing is trying to get someone off the hook for taking the responsibility of their mistakes. When I was a kid I learned to own up to what I did cause I got spanked even harder if I lied about it. And harder then that if it hurt someone else. (And they used a wooden paddle, not their hand). You choose sex, you get pregnant then have the baby and own up to it. Or have an illegal abortion and take the risk of death. You had choices and you had consequences and you knew ALL of them.

So no I don't care if it doesn't decrease the number of abortions. I really don't, if these women who choose to have sex want to risk death to do it. Let them die. I do not have sympathy for people who choose things like that I'm sorry.

If that makes me evil or mean then I'm evil or mean. But in the world I grew up in teaching someone to own up to their mistake isn't consider evil, in fact in that world its considered being a good parent. But apparently in this world now its considered abuse. In my world its also called tough love.

Wow just wow I am not even sure how to respond to this. Maybe when I get over my intital revulsion I can forumulate a response. But really I am just glad MOST prolife people aren;t like you. Most have a little more compassion and understanding. And I donlt think your an evil person..and maybe your an ok guy in rl but you seem to have a lot of hate.

 

[Calliso]

 

[Luther073082]

Wow just wow I am not even sure how to respond to this. Maybe when I get over my intital revulsion I can forumulate a response.

Sorry its all about choices. Me if I was a girl, I would take the consequences and have the child and take care of it. As a guy I would want the child and if she doesn't want it, I would take it myself. And if she did and we where on good terms I would offer to marry her immediatly.

I would spend as much time with the child as I could and I would work until I keeled over and died to make sure the child had enough to eat. If I could not provide for it no matter how much I worked, I would give it up for adoption. All the time putting the child's needs ahead of my own.

But see first I must make the choice to have sex and then I would make the choice to keep the child. (The first choice led to the second one) If you are afraid of making the second choice do not choose the first choice.

You don't necessarily want to have children to have sex. BUT if you are not prepared to sacrifice everything that you have and your entire life for a child that could possibly result from sex. Then you should not have sex period. EVER

And these women who get abortions are just trying to get out of the consequences. So if women choose illegal abortions knowing they are dangerious it is their own fault for making a series of dumb mistakes. If someone is willing to risk that for their abortion then its a risk they took. Sure its too bad that they died, but that doesn't mean we should make it legal to protect them from themselves. I'm not going to protect people from themselves like that. No one ever protected me from myself but me. Its my job to protect me from myself, not society and not a baby's job. Society's only job is to protect me from other people.

Its all about owning up to choices in my mind. And thats why I think it should be legal for rape (Although I wouldn't recommend it.) Because she didn't choose the rape so she shouldn't have face the consequences if they can be taken away.

Legalized abortion is like feeling sorry for the drunk driver when he kills the other person. Do you feel sorry for drunk drivers when they kill others or do you feel sorry for the person they killed? The drunk driver choose to drink cause it was "fun". The woman chose to have sex cause it was "fun". And then say she gets an illegal abortion and dies. Should I feel sorry for her or the baby? She got herself in that situation by her choices, not the baby. It wasn't the baby's fault.

 

[Luther073082]

First of all I think it is silly to equate a fetus and embyro to a child. They are not the same..but that is what many prolifers want people to believe that that child in the stroller has no more rights and perhaps has even less rights then a fetus or zygote. Also I believe God creates our souls I donlt believe though that he personally forms every embyro. That is by a biological process. I just have a hard time believing that God would purposely PUT a embyro in a woman when he would know that it would get aborted either natrually or artifically. Or that it would have a horrible life if it was born. There are plenty of people in the world who likely wish that their parents aborted them. But no I donlt have to tell people they should have abortions in order to support the right I think they have to have one. I dont have to agree with the reasons either. I just know personally for me I shouldn;t judge people because I am not in their situation.

Gen. 25:21,22 In Genesis 25:21,22, Rebekah conceived twins, and "the children struggled together within her." That which was conceived was called a "child" between the conception and the birth.
The Hebrew word used here (BEN) is the most common Old Testament word for a child or son. When used for the physical offspring of humans, it consistently refers to distinct human individuals (see Gen. 25:1-4; 3:16; etc.). Job 3:3
On the very night of Job's conception it could have been said, "There is a man-child conceived." The word for "man-child" (Heb. GEBER) elsewhere means "man," i.e., a human individual (see Job 3:23; 4:17; 10:5; Psalms 127:5; 128:4; etc.).
Job 3:16 Babies that die before birth are called "infants" that never saw light. This is exactly like babies that are aborted. This word (Heb. OLEL) always and without exception refers to human individuals (cf. Hosea 13:16; Psalm 8:2; Joel 2:16).
Numbers 12:12; Luke 1:43 In Numbers 12:12, Moses describes "one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb." If a baby dies before it is born -- as in an abortion -- the woman who conceived it is still a "mother."
In Luke 1:43, Elizabeth addressed Mary as "the mother of my Lord" before Jesus was born.
The word "mother" (Heb. EM; Greek METER), in contexts referring to physical human reproduction, always refers to one who has procreated or formed another human individual, a separate and distinct individual from the mother herself (see Num. 6:7; Gen. 3:20; Luke 1:60). A woman who has conceived, even if the child is not yet born and even if it dies before birth, is a "mother."
Luke 1:41,44 Elizabeth conceived (v. 24), and the life "in her womb" is called a "babe" or "baby" (Greek BREPHOS). This is the second-most-common New Testament word for a baby. It is always used for that which is a human individual separate and distinct from its mother (see Luke 2:12,16; Acts 7:19.)
Luke 1:36 Again, the life conceived in Elizabeth's womb, before it was born, is called "a son." The word "son" (Greek HUIOS), in contexts that refer to the physical offspring of humans, always refers to that which is a human individual separate and distinct as an individual from its parents. It is the most common New Testament word for a "son" (see Matt. 1:21,23,25; Luke 1:13,31; 2:7; etc.)

http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm

"If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,"

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/abortion.html

Genesis 1:26-28; 2:7: Mankind is created by God in His image, even carrying His eternal breath of life.
Exodus 21:22-23: The penalty under the law of Moses was to put to death a person who caused even the accidental death of an unborn baby (as by two men fighting).
Psalm 139:13-16:</I> Each person is created by God, fearfully, marvelously, and wonderfully, and that person's future is seen by the very eyes of God.
Isaiah 42:5 and Acts 17:25: The life and breath of people come from God.
Jeremiah 1:4-5: God called Jeremiah to be a prophet, even before his conception.
Isaiah 49:1, 5: God called Isaiah to be a prophet, even before his birth.
Genesis 25:22-23: God ordained a nation from Jacob (Jews) and a nation from Esau (Edomites, Arabs), while the twins were still in Rebekah's womb.
Matthew 1:18, 22-23: God ordained that the Messiah, Jesus, would come from the womb of Mary, even before she conceived.
Luke 1:36: God ordained that John the Baptizer would be conceived in the womb of Elizabeth.

Each fetus is a child, not just a collection of cells. The reason I would allow it legally with rape is I can't push the bible on others and they shouldn't be made to suffer conseqences from what they did not choose. (Although I would not ever recommend an abortion to a rape victim. I think it should be legal)

But as Christians we are told that from the moment it is conceived it is a child.

For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

 

[Calliso]

The thing is a person getting an abortion may also be doing it for the child. Many kids grow up living in homes where they barely get enough to eat, they donlt get a good education and the neighbor they live in is so crappy they can;t walk out the door without worrying about getting shot. Maybe the mother decided you know I donlt want my kid to grow up living that kind of life. And yeah maybe she shouldn;t have had sex in the first place but even that isn;t black and white. I mean what if she was married and whatever birth control they were using failed? What if she was raped. And I donlt think women should be punished for having sex. Instead I think it is better to teach the concequences of sex, ways to help prevent this concequences and if they get pregnant instead of saying sucks to be you you deserve it! Offer support and kind words. I bet more women chose not to have an abortion because they were offered support and kind words then because they were told that they would be a horrible person if they aborted and that the pregnancy is their punishement.....


Also yes adoption is an option but many people have found after they give birth that emotionally they can;t deal with giving up the child, but they can;t afford it either would creates a big problem. Also there are also many kids that wonlt ever get adopted. You know why>? Because most people want to adopt the perfect little baby.

 

[Luther073082]

The thing is a person getting an abortion may also be doing it for the child. Many kids grow up living in homes where they barely get enough to eat, they donlt get a good education and the neighbor they live in is so crappy they can;t walk out the door without worrying about getting shot. Maybe the mother decided you know I donlt want my kid to grow up living that kind of life. And yeah maybe she shouldn;t have had sex in the first place but even that isn;t black and white. I mean what if she was married and whatever birth control they were using failed? What if she was raped. And I donlt think women should be punished for having sex. Instead I think it is better to teach the concequences of sex, ways to help prevent this concequences and if they get pregnant instead of saying sucks to be you you deserve it! Offer support and kind words. I bet more women chose not to have an abortion because they were offered support and kind words then because they were told that they would be a horrible person if they aborted and that the pregnancy is their punishement.....

Of course we should do as much as we can to help those in impovershed areas. But I think its silly to think you are helping the child by killing them!!! If they want to do it for the child they can put them up for adoption. No they are doing it for themselves. There is not one single unselfish motive in an abortion.

Put them up for adoption, we've already got loads and loads of people working on that one alone. We can't do everything, trust me I know. Let me give you an example

I teach Sunday School, 6th grade this year, 8th grade last year. Many of my students could go to every class that year and not learn a single thing. Why? Because I only get them one day a week. If they are to learn about their faith, their parents have to work with them as well. I can certainly help them a lot, and can focus things, give them direction etc. . . but if their parents are totally un intersted they just don't learn much.

We have to help people become better parents. But none of this means killing the baby is the best thing for them.

 

[Calliso]

Of course we should do as much as we can to help those in impovershed areas. But I think its silly to think you are helping the child by killing them!!! If they want to do it for the child they can put them up for adoption. No they are doing it for themselves. There is not one single unselfish motive in an abortion.

Put them up for adoption, we've already got loads and loads of people working on that one alone. We can't do everything, trust me I know. Let me give you an example

I teach Sunday School, 6th grade this year, 8th grade last year. Many of my students could go to every class that year and not learn a single thing. Why? Because I only get them one day a week. If they are to learn about their faith, their parents have to work with them as well. I can certainly help them a lot, and can focus things, give them direction etc. . . but if their parents are totally un intersted they just don't learn much.

We have to help people become better parents. But none of this means killing the baby is the best thing for them.

I edited my last post to include something about adoption, yes it shoudl be encouraged but it isn;t the end all end all solution either.

 

[Tragic Paradox]

How is killing an unborn child because you can't take care of it any different than, say, losing your job and killing your family because you can't support them any more? At least your family can try to put up a fight or something. An unborn baby has no say whatsoever.