Abortion

[Tuffguy]

Well sorry you feel that way-maybe if you experienced a rape or someone you loved was raped and knocked up... you MIGHT understand.

This is the arguement that is always used to legally justify abortion. However, this is by far the overwelming exception(1 out of 100,000?), not the rule.

Lucky for us, God loves all children. Even the ones we can't.

 

[ciaradawn]

again; who are we to judge another human being? It is God's responsiblity to do that. Aren't we supposed to just love eachother. I don't believe that God said he wanted us to judge others.

 

[die2live]

again; who are we to judge another human being? It is God's responsiblity to do that. Aren't we supposed to just love eachother. I don't believe that God said he wanted us to judge others.

No, we are not supposed to "just" love each other. That is one of the many things we are supposed to do for each other, but it is by far not the only thing. The Bible speaks many times of correction and rebuke being not only a Christian's right but a Christian's responsibility.

But not in a judging way, of course.

 

[Luther073082]

Ok here are my thoughts on rape and abortion.

I do think that a fetus is a human life. However I can not push my beliefs on others.

Therefor as a victim of rape I think they should legally be able to abort the child. (Although verifying the rape quick enough for an abortion won't be easy).

However:

1. I would not recommend an abortion to a rape victim but would reocmmend adoption.

2. I belive in abortion in the following cases rape, mothers life, intreatable and fatal birth defects of the fetus.

That is it, even if you do not accept that a fetus is a human life, unless you where raped the pregancy is still YOUR choice because you and your partner chose to have sex.

However just so you know I'm not leting deadbeats out of this either. My cousin was knocked up by one of these deadbeats. As far as I can see, no excuses you pay child support. If you get behind by more then 6 months in your child support. NO MATTER WHAT, I don't care if you don't have a job or you can't afford it or whatever sob story you come up with. You go to jail for a year and work on a chain gang to pay the child support.

Then we let you out give you another chance. Fail again then we put you in for 5 years. Again no excuses

On the third time if you fail again we put you in jail til the child is 30 (yes 30) years old.

Oh yeah and once you hit the third time you not only stay in jail til the kid is 30 years old but you forfeit any and all parental rights to the child.

But rape is a really emotional issue so lets stay calm about it. Ladies if you have been raped, I must suggest that you don't get too involved in the discussion because the issue is too emotional for you. I sympathize with you, I've worked with rape victims in the past, but when you get too emotionally involved in a discussion it often leads to personal attacks and insults.

 

[cakes&buttercream]

Ok here are my thoughts on rape and abortion.

I do think that a fetus is a human life. However I can not push my beliefs on others.

Therefor as a victim of rape I think they should legally be able to abort the child. (Although verifying the rape quick enough for an abortion won't be easy).

However:

1. I would not recommend an abortion to a rape victim but would reocmmend adoption.

2. I belive in abortion in the following cases rape, mothers life, intreatable and fatal birth defects of the fetus.

That is it, even if you do not accept that a fetus is a human life, unless you where raped the pregancy is still YOUR choice because you and your partner chose to have sex.

However just so you know I'm not leting deadbeats out of this either. My cousin was knocked up by one of these deadbeats. As far as I can see, no excuses you pay child support. If you get behind by more then 6 months in your child support. NO MATTER WHAT, I don't care if you don't have a job or you can't afford it or whatever sob story you come up with. You go to jail for a year and work on a chain gang to pay the child support.

Then we let you out give you another chance. Fail again then we put you in for 5 years. Again no excuses

On the third time if you fail again we put you in jail til the child is 30 (yes 30) years old.

Oh yeah and once you hit the third time you not only stay in jail til the kid is 30 years old but you forfeit any and all parental rights to the child.

But rape is a really emotional issue so lets stay calm about it. Ladies if you have been raped, I must suggest that you don't get too involved in the discussion because the issue is too emotional for you. I sympathize with you, I've worked with rape victims in the past, but when you get too emotionally involved in a discussion it often leads to personal attacks and insults.

I agree with what you said luther.

I was a rape victim, infact I was "assaulted" (im sure someone will edit that).
Thats why I feel the way I do. When it comes to rape, i think abortion should be legal and ok. Otherwise you are right, two people chose to have sex, and should be ready to accept the fact they have conceived a life.
Just to let you know, I don't attack people for their beliefs and thoughs. I am very laid back, and liberal, and understand that people have different opinions and thoughts.

 

[Luther073082]

I agree with what you said luther.

I was a rape victim, infact I was "assaulted" (im sure someone will edit that).
Thats why I feel the way I do. When it comes to rape, i think abortion should be legal and ok. Otherwise you are right, two people chose to have sex, and should be ready to accept the fact they have conceived a life.
Just to let you know, I don't attack people for their beliefs and thoughs. I am very laid back, and liberal, and understand that people have different opinions and thoughts.

I'm very sorry to hear that dear.

I'd like to say I hope it was a while ago because the time would help you deal with the pain better. But then again if it was that long ago it ment you where a child which would actually make it worse.

Did you know your attackers? And where you able to have them put away?

I'll pray for you.

Edit: Ok just be careful though, because when someone gets into a discussion they are too tied up in emotionally I've seen a lot of problems.

But like I said, I wouldn't recommend the abortion. If one of my Sunday school students was raped and got pregnant because of it. After fighting the urge to kill her attacker and making sure she understood none of this was her fault, I would recommend to her that she have the baby but put it up for adoption.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

again; who are we to judge another human being? It is God's responsiblity to do that. Aren't we supposed to just love eachother. I don't believe that God said he wanted us to judge others.

I'm not pushing my beliefs on anyone, just relaying the command to not murder. Stop judging my beliefs by saying I shouldn't judge!

 

[cakes&buttercream]

I'm very sorry to hear that dear.

I'd like to say I hope it was a while ago because the time would help you deal with the pain better. But then again if it was that long ago it ment you where a child which would actually make it worse.

Did you know your attackers? And where you able to have them put away?

I'll pray for you.

Edit: Ok just be careful though, because when someone gets into a discussion they are too tied up in emotionally I've seen a lot of problems.

But like I said, I wouldn't recommend the abortion. If one of my Sunday school students was raped and got pregnant because of it. After fighting the urge to kill her attacker and making sure she understood none of this was her fault, I would recommend to her that she have the baby but put it up for adoption.

Truth be told, I was 14 when this happened. I knew one of the men who attacked me(he was an employee at one on my parents corporations) but the other men, I didn't know at all.

They managed to lock up the man I knew. He is in prision on child abuse charges (multiple charges, physical, sexual, and child porn).

As a result I did infact get pregnant.(by what man- I don't know) But I lost the baby weeks later. (due to large amounts of stress)

 

[progressivegal]

Truth be told, I was 14 when this happened. I knew one of the men who attacked me(he was an employee at one on my parents corporations) but the other men, I didn't know at all.

They managed to lock up the man I knew. He is in prision on child abuse charges (multiple charges, physical, sexual, and child porn).

As a result I did infact get pregnant.(by what man- I don't know) But I lost the baby weeks later. (due to large amounts of stress)

 

[Qyöt27]

As this seems to have shifted away from a discussion on hypocrisy and more toward people's general feelings on the subject, I might as well chip in again.

I view the government's job as primarily to protect its citizens. No group is above another in this. Now, this might appear as though it might be the beginning of a pro-life stance, but it isn't, at least not in the way the pro-life camp sees it. If abortion is banned, the only thing I can see is more loss of life because those seeking them will end up having backroom abortions with dodgy medical services to support them afterward (or even during). I can't reconcile a course of events that will only lead to more deaths. Bans aren't going to stand in the way of people seeking them out - it was like this prior to Roe v. Wade and it'll just pick up where it left off almost 35 years ago, if not escalate in scope. The only thing that could be done to curb it is to try to steer subsequent generations away from it, not with guilt trips, but with other appeals to reason. Even in that, though, the numbers probably wouldn't drastically decline.

But that doesn't mean I'm pro-choice, either.

Similar to the common defense in origins debates that any replacement for evolution is probably going to look quite a bit like its predecessor, I see the only viable solution to the abortion debate to be something similar - to the effect that the physical pregnancy is ended early, but which is capable of saving both lives, either by transplant (late-term surrogation) or via mechanical life-support. That's the only acceptable solution here. Sure, I know a segment of the pro-life camp will be unhappy with it, just as there is a segment or two in the general populace that view fertility therapy/artifical insemination as unnatural and to be opposed on moral grounds. But the majority will be satisfied and there won't be any lost life. Until a solution like that appears and moreover, becomes more affordable and more reliable than abortion, it's going to be something that can't be gotten rid of, as unfortunate as that is.

In cases like rape, putting myself in those shoes, I'd immediately go get emergency contraception. And if that failed, then I don't know what I would do. Of course, seeing as I'm male, then that's purely an impossibility. However, if it was someone close to me then that would still be my answer.

 

[Luther073082]

Truth be told, I was 14 when this happened. I knew one of the men who attacked me(he was an employee at one on my parents corporations) but the other men, I didn't know at all.

They managed to lock up the man I knew. He is in prision on child abuse charges (multiple charges, physical, sexual, and child porn).

As a result I did infact get pregnant.(by what man- I don't know) But I lost the baby weeks later. (due to large amounts of stress)

Geez, its too bad they didn't get the other one's too.

What are we at now, 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted at one point in their life if I remember right. Sad

 

[Tuffguy]

Wow. Lots of situational ethics going on here.

You either think its wrong all the time or right all the time. It is the same act either way!!!!! The situation changes nothing.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Wow. Lots of situational ethics going on here.

You either think its wrong all the time or right all the time. It is the same act either way!!!!! The situation changes nothing.

Exactly! ><; It's not as if nobody cares that horrible things were done..

 

[ciaradawn]

I'm not pushing my beliefs on anyone, just relaying the command to not murder. Stop judging my beliefs by saying I shouldn't judge!

hey I'm not judging your opinions. I also agree that it's wrong to casually have sex and then oops! we're pregnant; ohwell, we'll just get an abortion. I understand both sides; which is why I'm prochoice. If you're not forcing your values on someone else then I can't say anything bad about that. It's when we start to try to change laws saying it's wrong, and when we protest; that's judging and I don't think that's right.

 

[ciaradawn]

Wow. Lots of situational ethics going on here.

You either think its wrong all the time or right all the time. It is the same act either way!!!!! The situation changes nothing.

I disagree

 

[cakes&buttercream]

Me too.

 

[Calliso]

I disagree as well not all situations are the same and not all should be treated the same way.

 

[nathans1987]

Well sorry you feel that way-maybe if you experienced a rape or someone you loved was raped and knocked up... you MIGHT understand.

i know a rape baby and she has a happy and fine life just like any other kid. if you would rather kill the child so they never get that because it causes you grief you are very selfish...

 

[nathans1987]

I disagree as well not all situations are the same and not all should be treated the same way.

they are all the same, if you can look after your child then get a job or you must have family or somthing that can help. there is no excuse for an abortion. NONE. 1 dont have sex 2 if you do its most likly your falt(exception of rape) and keep the child people need to grow up and accept the consequences of there actions!

 

[die2live]

As this seems to have shifted away from a discussion on hypocrisy and more toward people's general feelings on the subject, I might as well chip in again.

I view the government's job as primarily to protect its citizens. No group is above another in this. Now, this might appear as though it might be the beginning of a pro-life stance, but it isn't, at least not in the way the pro-life camp sees it. If abortion is banned, the only thing I can see is more loss of life because those seeking them will end up having backroom abortions with dodgy medical services to support them afterward (or even during). I can't reconcile a course of events that will only lead to more deaths. Bans aren't going to stand in the way of people seeking them out - it was like this prior to Roe v. Wade and it'll just pick up where it left off almost 35 years ago, if not escalate in scope. The only thing that could be done to curb it is to try to steer subsequent generations away from it, not with guilt trips, but with other appeals to reason. Even in that, though, the numbers probably wouldn't drastically decline.

I'm not sure about this. (the part about "more deaths"). I know the number of back alley abortions will rise if abortion were illegalized. But I disagree that they would rise to the point where there is actually more deaths overall. I've done a little research in this area and from what I've read the stats I've heard, most women would not get abortions if they were illegal. Think about it. If you were a woman and the only way to get an abortion was through a an illegal abortion clinic, given all the horror stories we've all heard about back alley abortions, would you really risk your life to get rid of your pregnancy? I don't think most people would. Some would, but not most. Plus, in a lot of cases, a girl has an abortion because of pressure from her parents, friends, boyfriend etc. How many people do you know who would encourage their daughter to go through an illegal and highly dangerous procedure if it were not medically necessary? Abortions overall would drastically decrease if it were made illegal. It wouldn't go away all together and there would probably be an increase in maternal deaths, but far less deaths altogether.