abortion

[Gusoceros]

O.K. wouldn't you protect you mom if there where going to attack her even kill her isn't are jobs to protect the innocent

What ? What has God's Authority for Justice to do with my mother?

G

EDIT: Im anti-abortion BTW

 

[allhart]

What ? What has God's Authority for Justice to do with my mother?

G

EDIT: Im anti-abortion BTW

Imiss spoke sorry G and on mother issue. Its that you honor your mother is all i'm stating and that you wouldn't stand by and let something happen to her (no justice) in that . I think we should honor those babies in the same way. GOD BLESS YOU

 

[Gusoceros]

Imiss spoke sorry G and on mother issue. Its that you honor your mother is all i'm stating and that you wouldn't stand by and let something happen to her (no justice) in that . I think we should honor those babies in the same way. GOD BLESS YOU

No worries friend. You are right, we should honor these lives.

G

 

[teishpriest]

I'm going to say something radical, but true. Abortion is illegal. That's right, abortion is illegal. Let me explain...

The Constitution recognizes certain rights that are God-given, meaning that they cannot be take away. (Opressed, yes, not taken away.) One of which is the right to life. The Constitution states that no one may be deprived of their life without due proccess of the law, meaning convicted of a crime that carries the death penalty. None of these children have ever been convicted of such a crime. So, according to the second-highest law of our land, abortion is illegal. (God's law is the highest law.)

Secondly, do courts make law? No. Only congress has the power to make law, the courts are charged with upholding the laws that congress passes. So, R v. W did not actually legalize abortion. It was simply the court's (erronious) opinion on one case. Overturning R v. W is irrelevant, since it is not law.

Third, any law that contradicts God's law is not valid law. Therefore, we are not bound by it, indeed, we have a responsiblility NOT to obey it. For example, Daniel prayed as he always did even though the King passed a decree making it "illegal". God clearly forbids murder. He does not forbid murder of only those who reach a certain age, or are in good health, He forbids murder period.

So, there are my three good reasons why abortion is illegal already.

 

[WalkingforHim]

God is the Judge, the Perfect Judge of who has sinned, and who hasnt. It is God's Job to decide who lives, and who doesnt.

Murder, is killing someone unjustly. God is ALWAYS Just in his Judgements. That is why He is God.

God cant murder- it is impossible.

Ok, we've established God can break his very own rules without it being a sin, so what other rules can He break?

 

[DiscipleDave]

The majority of conceptions are spontaneously aborted. Does God also murder innocent babies?

The difference being God decides who and who will not recieve a spirit of Life. God decides who will live and who will not live, Human take it upon themselves to decide who will live and who will not live, this is what is evil in the eyes of God.

http://members.aol.com/discipledave/book/Abortion.html

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[BigMike835]

Ok, we've established God can break his very own rules without it being a sin, so what other rules can He break?

Taking a life doesn't equal Murder.

mur·der (mûr'dər) n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows.

kill1 [kil]–verb (used with object)
1.to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.
2.to destroy; do away with; extinguish: His response killed our hopes.
3.to destroy or neutralize the active qualities of: to kill an odor.
4.to spoil the effect of: His extra brushwork killed the painting.

From my understanding the commandment stating not to kill was actually mistranslated and really said not to murder.

Otherwise David sinned when he killed Goliath. Based on how the story was told it didn't seem like a bad thing so I don't think he was sinning!

Also, our lives were given to us by God. By this fact we aren't to take another's life (unless under VERY special circumstances) because it isn't our's to take.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Can satan create a life ? Can Humans create a life without God ?
Do you not have a spirit within you ? when did you recieve that spirit, and where did it come from ? satan does not give us the spirit that is within us, and a human man and a human woman, cannot create a spirit, so then the spirit that is within us, comes from God, He it is who gives us that spirit.
If a man and a woman have sexual relations, and becomes pregnant, they have only did so, because God has allowed it to happen, it is His will that she becomes pregnant, else, she would not become pregnant. Only Gods gives the breath of life. Now when then does the breath of life enter into a fetus ? Is this written any where, is this made known to us humans. therefore it is wrong to assume that a fetus only recieves the spirit of life when they are born, or to assume a certain amount of time as a fetus, before abortion is not permitted. You know not when the spirit of life has entered into that fetus. The mere fact that the woman is pregnant to begin with, is a fact that God desires that woman to be pregnant. NOw events that are acts of God, that is to say, events that have no human enteractions, such as still born, or the death of the fetus. If God decides to terminate a life, He is God and is able to do so, if He so chooses to do so, it is evil when humans play God and decide to terminate a life by abortion.
If God decides to blow down a tree onto my neighbors house and totally destroy his house, this is an act of God, and is righteous to God, If i go to my neighbors and cut down the Tree to fall and destroy my neighbors house, this is evil and is not an act of God, but is evil. Likewise, if God desires a child to be aborted it will be done so according to God, but when humans decide a child should be aborted it, it is done so according to humans, and not that of God.
If life is started in a woman, god is trying to create a life in that woman, satan can't create life, he destroys life, not create it. So then God is trying to create a life in that woman, why then do humans go about to destroy what God is trying to create, then make excuses for it, to justify their evil deed.
i can't believe the God of this world ( satan ) has got people so blind as to think it is OK to destroy what God is trying to create. Again, God creates life, you don't, they don't, satan doesn't. God decides who will become pregnant and who will be barren, and who will not become pregnant. Woe to those who condone, or think it is OK to destroy what God is creating. Even the anti-christ will be born, because God so desires that he is born, to fullfill prophesies he is born. So then, even if a woman is pregnant with the ANTI-CHRIST, it would still be against the Will of God that this fetus is aborted, even though it is the anti-christ. how much more then your unborn child in you. YOu know not what plans God has for your unborn child, and i assure you with no doubts whatsoever, He does have a plan for that child, do not destroy it.

More on this topic can be found here:

http://members.aol.com/discipledave/book/Abortion.html

In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ
DiscipleDave
^i^

 

[overit]

"permitted. You know not when the spirit of life has entered into that fetus. The mere fact that the woman is pregnant to begin with, is a fact that God desires that woman to be pregnant."

This is not necessarily true, women get pg all the time in a million diff scenarios, all of them are not because God wanted her to be pg. God doesn't desire a man to rape a woman and her to get pg, God doesn't desire a 14yr old and 17yr old to have sex and end up pg, God doesn't intend the woman that had an affair to get pg, there is something called free will, and becaues of our actions, the results come because of the way we are biologically made, this does not mean God intends or wants all women to get pg that currently or in the past DO get pg, that's quite the assumption.

 

[DiscipleDave]

"permitted. You know not when the spirit of life has entered into that fetus. The mere fact that the woman is pregnant to begin with, is a fact that God desires that woman to be pregnant."

This is not necessarily true, women get pg all the time in a million diff scenarios, all of them are not because God wanted her to be pg. God doesn't desire a man to rape a woman and her to get pg, God doesn't desire a 14yr old and 17yr old to have sex and end up pg, God doesn't intend the woman that had an affair to get pg, there is something called free will, and becaues of our actions, the results come because of the way we are biologically made, this does not mean God intends or wants all women to get pg that currently or in the past DO get pg, that's quite the assumption.

It is most definately True, Are you saying that if a woman gets pregnant, that God didn't know she would ? In my belief and in my Faith, Nothing happens without God's knowledge or approval. If a woman gets pregnant, it is NEVER an accident, as if it accidently happened. God is in control. If then God decides a life shall be born into this world ( REGARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCES ) then God allows it to happen or He does not allow it to happen. God and only God can create a life. Now from what i gather in your post, you believe people just get pregnant because of the sex, like it is some kind of odds thing ( ie the odds of getting pregnant ..... .... ) Let me assure you, life does not come into this world without Gods approval. IF a person commits adultery ( which is a sin against God ) does not determine the outcome of getting pregnant, whether it is a blessing or a punishment. you do error thinking it is a random event. i say this because you said " there is something called free will, and becaues of our actions, the results come because of the way we are biologically made, " you then are saying because we are human, it is a punishement to get pregnant if it was done in sin of some kind. What then it is a reward if you get pregnant if you are married and there was no sin committed ? what if they deem it as a punishment to get pregnant when they did not want children. You do error in this thinking. Whether a woman gets pregnant or not, is entirely up to God and His will, NOT the circumstances that lead to that pregnancy. becoming pregnant is not a punishment nor a reward, but becoming pregnant is the will of God, for only He can create life, and only He determines when that life will be created. now it may seem to be a punishment, or seem to be a reward, when a woman gets pregnant, and that is what they wanted to happen, or a punishment to get pregnant when they did not want to get pregnant, but i assure you, it is not our choice, but is the will of God that one becomes pregnant or not pregnant, it is not something that just happens because we are humans, and we are biologically made to get pregnant. ONly God can create a life.
Let us assume for one moment. God leaves the earth, the holy ghost leaves the earth, all the angels and all the good spirits leave the earth and go to Heaven, not looking upon the earth again. There is only humans and satan and his demons that remain. Now according to you, since there are males and there are females, children will still be born, because we are biologically made that way PROBLEM THOUGH, from wence does the spirit come from that is in us. IF there is no God here on Earth, then no fetus can recieve a spirit of life, all children born after God leaves the Earth will be in fact still born, they will never move within the womb, they have no spirit given them, so they are not alive.
So then, God decides who will live and who will not live, and if a person gets pregnant, it is because He desires that person to be pregnant, and gives the spirit of life to that fetus, so that it may live. Without God no life is born on this planet, not by accident or any other way, NO LIFE is born without God.
A woman does not get pregnant, by accident, it is by the will of God that they are about to give life to a human, to dwell upon this planet. Now a human can think they accidently got pregnant, such as forgetting to take their pill, or defective contraceptives, but the decision if that person becomes pregnant or not, is God's. thousands have forgotten to take their pill, and did not get pregnant, thousands have forgotten to take their pill, and did get pregnant. But is is, and always has been the choice of God, whether a woman became pregnant or not pregnant, regardless of circumstances, regardless of human biologically made to become pregnant.
Please note, that i am not yelling, or angered in any way, but have said all this in love, Many people say i come across as being angry, please do not think this way. My hope is that you think upon what i have said, pray to God concerning if what i have said is True, that you come to know the Truth in this matter

IN His HOly and pRecious Name, Jesus Christ

DiscipleDvae

 

[allhart]

Taking a life doesn't equal Murder.

mur·der (mûr'dər) n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows.

kill1 [kil]–verb (used with object)
1.to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.
2.to destroy; do away with; extinguish: His response killed our hopes.
3.to destroy or neutralize the active qualities of: to kill an odor.
4.to spoil the effect of: His extra brushwork killed the painting.

From my understanding the commandment stating not to kill was actually mistranslated and really said not to murder.

Otherwise David sinned when he killed Goliath. Based on how the story was told it didn't seem like a bad thing so I don't think he was sinning!

Also, our lives were given to us by God. By this fact we aren't to take another's life (unless under VERY special circumstances) because it isn't our's to take.

Your trying to and are mixing it all up. GOD is not chaotic and murder is a special circumstance and Goliath dishonored GOD and it was war. Not random acts of violence.GOD has holy war's (justly) and you are picking things out that sound good to your ears.Sorry bigmike i just respectively disagree with you friend

 

[BigMike835]

Your trying to and are mixing it all up. GOD is not chaotic and murder is a special circumstance and Goliath dishonored GOD and it was war. Not random acts of violence.GOD has holy war's (justly) and you are picking things out that sound good to your ears.Sorry bigmike i just respectively disagree with you friend

Actually, the defenitions of murder vs. killing is quite clear not to mention the fact that it is pretty clear that our lives are not ours' to take but God's to give and take as He sees fit. Nothing mixed up about that!

David didn't murder Goliath because he didn't do it out of malice and it was in a combat situation which is completely different ESPECIALLY when put into context with the concept of wars that God has condoned.

Again, if you look at the definitions of the words being used and put them in contrast with the Bible, it's pretty clear what's what.

I think you're actually agreeing with me but you just don't know it.

 

[overit]

DD, I didn't say it was as rewards or punishment, on the rest of your post of God's will, vs free will, versus ALWAYS His plan, well we'll just have to agree to disagree (completely!).

I've found that arguing these matters typically boil down entirely to different theological beliefs. SO to discuss the surface aspects will never lead anywhere, it depends what your theological views. Just like arguing politics is discussing surface matters, but the root of a liberal vs conservative are very defined issues that aren't even addressed in the debates, and is why people will always disagree, and ALSO believe that the other party is crazy to believe what he/she believes. LOL Just like I completely disagree with your views, you probably think I'm nuts for mine. But hey, that's ok.

 

[allhart]

Actually, the defenitions of murder vs. killing is quite clear not to mention the fact that it is pretty clear that our lives are not ours' to take but God's to give and take as He sees fit. Nothing mixed up about that!

David didn't murder Goliath because he didn't do it out of malice and it was in a combat situation which is completely different ESPECIALLY when put into context with the concept of wars that God has condoned.

Again, if you look at the definitions of the words being used and put them in contrast with the Bible, it's pretty clear what's what.

I think you're actually agreeing with me but you just don't know it.

NO SORRY there are good reasons for putting people to death and GOD did tell us in genesis 9:1-8 . before i came to Christ i thought like you not saying that to be negative. I COULDN'T HURT SOME ONE IN THIS WAY. put them to death ,but not on emotion GOD shows us many examples. CANNITES MALICITE THEY WERE CANCER ALL WHERE TAKEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN. LIFE IS NOT ALWAYS EASE TO EXCEPT ;HOWEVER I DO EXCEPT HIS WILL AND HIS WORD

 

[Gusoceros]

Ok, we've established God can break his very own rules without it being a sin, so what other rules can He break?

No- you seem to be incapable of understanding what is breaking the rules, and what isnt.

I have demonstrated that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to murder someone, and you have just apparently missed it and moved right on by.

G

 

[allhart]

No- you seem to be incapable of understanding what is breaking the rules, and what isnt.

I have demonstrated that it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to murder someone, and you have just apparently missed it and moved right on by.

G

AND YOU WALK ON BY GODS JUSTICE AND STANDARDS AND I WILL RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU . AND MURDER IS NOT GOD AND HE DOESN'T MURDER PEOPLE,BUT JUSTLY LIKE IN THE GARDEN FOR EATING THE FRUIT DISOBEYING GODS RULE ARE PENALTY IS DEATH FOR EATING THE FRUIT. THAT WHY WE DIE OR HE TAKE ARE BODY (WHAT EVER) YOU GET MY POINT.

 

[teishpriest]

OK, God ALONE has authority over life and death. He appoints a time for us to be born, and a time for us to die. It's not up to us to alter His timeline for anyone's life. There are certain times when He grants someone the authority to end someone's life, for example, He grants governments the authority to put to death evildoers, etc. But in the end, the authority is always God's.

 

[allhart]

OK, God ALONE has authority over life and death. He appoints a time for us to be born, and a time for us to die. It's not up to us to alter His timeline for anyone's life. There are certain times when He grants someone the authority to end someone's life, for example, He grants governments the authority to put to death evildoers, etc. But in the end, the authority is always God's.

GENESIS 9:1-8 READ AND YOU MAKE SUBSTANDARDS FOR GODS WAY OF LIFE FOR US. HIS WORD THE ETHICS ARE THERE

 

[JWNEWMAN]

Does anyone no the stats on the mental/emotional fall-out from abortion. I can't speak to (don't know) but know two women who've done it and suffer for it many, many years later.

Personally, I believe it is murder and it shows just how easy it is to rationalize for personal "gain" and how easily our flesh is corrupted. It is a crime... a great evil... If you've done it, or, been a party to doing it, confess it to the Lord, seek mercy don't go to your own grave unrepentant you've blood on your hands.

 

[teishpriest]

I have a friend who started a home for pregnant teens. She has worked with women and girls who have had abortion since she was in college, about 25-30 years. She has delt with so many who are suicidal and have severe emotional problems as a result of having an abortion. She told me once that a mother who aborts her baby has all the same feelings as one who miscarries, with the additon of guilt. Having had two miscarriages, I would not wish that on ANY mother! As for actual statistics, I don't have any, but I do know that the number is high. Most statistics do not include that emotional problems that the father has to deal with as well. My friend would tell you that the father of the baby deals with some of the same things. Statistics also don't mention the child's grandparents who often have similar emotional responses. So, you see, abortion not only kills a child, it ruins the lives of several people at the same time.