abortion

[Gusoceros]

The majority of conceptions are spontaneously aborted. Does God also murder innocent babies?

I believe we are talking about the ones that make it past.

G

 

[allhart]

I believe we are talking about the ones that make it past.

G

past what? conception is conception; however ,GOD TAKES ALL YOUNG AND OLD

 

[BigMike835]

Go and watch amazing grace and put abortion topic IN VIEW OF WHAT YOU SEE.and i am not for violence on my part or theirs, but as the movie describes you put their violence on everyones mind and keep it fresh on there minds. push push push never quit or give up for GODS CHILDREN ARE DIEING MAY HE HAVE FOR GIVENNESS FOR ALL AND I MEAN ALL. f OR MOST OF US SIT BACK AND TO NOTHING .LEAVING INNOCENT BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS AS WELL. AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING ?

JUSTICE AND MERCY FOR ALL. AND GOD IS HOLLY.

bad things happen when supposable good people let it happen.
if in this country the majority are Christian it shouldn't be like this and like i said then GOD for give us all. I HURT INSIDE (YES )THIS IS WRONG AND I WANT CHANGE WISH IT NEVER WAS.

What's better? To simply throw fits and succumb to your emotions on the subject or to go to the root cause of the issue and deal with it in an organized and focused manner?

The current "strategy" of the pro-life movement is obviously not working or else the situation would be better and not worse.

 

[allhart]

What's better? To simply throw fits and succumb to your emotions on the subject or to go to the root cause of the issue and deal with it in an organized and focused manner?

The current "strategy" of the pro-life movement is obviously not working or else the situation would be better and not worse.

LIKE WISE, I AGREE TO DISAGREE;HOWEVER, I HONOR GOD IN ALL THAT I DO

 

[Confess]

I think the strategy has been changing quite a lot lately. More and more I am seeing on commercials advertisements for post abortive support or adoption help. I have seen the tables being turned on organizations like Planned Parenthood in exposing their illegal or sick ways.

Today it seems politically incorrect for Democrats to proudly call themselves abortion supporter (Ok, fine, "choice" supports). The tide is turning, our social security problem is directly related to the over 40 million people in America who lost their lives before ever taking their first breath.

Economically, killing your own people is the same as killing your country. Just as China is struggling to stay alive, so too are most of the countries as we all are economically stressed from the imbalance. I can't help but think that a big reason why the government doesn't keep a better eye on our southern border is due to the benefit we reap by having all these extra people help our economy in the place of all the dead people that should have never died in the first place.

 

[BigMike835]

I think the strategy has been changing quite a lot lately. More and more I am seeing on commercials advertisements for post abortive support or adoption help. I have seen the tables being turned on organizations like Planned Parenthood in exposing their illegal or sick ways.

Today it seems politically incorrect for Democrats to proudly call themselves abortion supporter (Ok, fine, "choice" supports). The tide is turning, our social security problem is directly related to the over 40 million people in America who lost their lives before ever taking their first breath.

Economically, killing your own people is the same as killing your country. Just as China is struggling to stay alive, so too are most of the countries as we all are economically stressed from the imbalance. I can't help but think that a big reason why the government doesn't keep a better eye on our southern border is due to the benefit we reap by having all these extra people help our economy in the place of all the dead people that should have never died in the first place.

I agree with what you are saying about the economic impacts that overzealous population control bring...abortion being one of the tools of this. China's got too many men and Japan has too many old people which will cause a lot of issues for them in the next decade and beyond.

Amusing fact: Japan has actually been putting a lot of money and effort into making robots that care for the elderly and fill a lot of other labor roles that they predict will be empty because of the lack of 20-30 year olds in comparison to the elderly population. That's another story, though...

Planned Parenthood got in trouble in Brazil a few years back for secretly sterilizing people. It's a crime to permanently sterylize yourself in Brazil.

The problem is these haven't been directly attributed to abortion so much as other social issues. There needs to be that line drawn between these two issues to connect them in the public eye.

The other problem is bringing these statistics home to people. There tends to be a "this can't happen to me" or "doesn't apply to me" attitude among most people when statistics showing major socio-economical implications are brought out. It's not until they or someone they know is included in the mess that they actually acknowledge the issue and take active steps to correct it.

This is why I think preventative education should be a much bigger focus in order to curtail these effects as well as keeping people from letting themselves get to the point where they have to choose to abort or not.

The tools and facts are already there. We just need to do a better job of getting the information in people's hands. I don't think getting emotional and calling people "baby killers" is going to help, though.

 

[Confess]

I agree with what you are saying about the economic impacts that overzealous population control bring...abortion being one of the tools of this. China's got too many men and Japan has too many old people which will cause a lot of issues for them in the next decade and beyond.

Amusing fact: Japan has actually been putting a lot of money and effort into making robots that care for the elderly and fill a lot of other labor roles that they predict will be empty because of the lack of 20-30 year olds in comparison to the elderly population. That's another story, though...

Planned Parenthood got in trouble in Brazil a few years back for secretly sterilizing people. It's a crime to permanently sterylize yourself in Brazil.

The problem is these haven't been directly attributed to abortion so much as other social issues. There needs to be that line drawn between these two issues to connect them in the public eye.

The other problem is bringing these statistics home to people. There tends to be a "this can't happen to me" or "doesn't apply to me" attitude among most people when statistics showing major socio-economical implications are brought out. It's not until they or someone they know is included in the mess that they actually acknowledge the issue and take active steps to correct it.

This is why I think preventative education should be a much bigger focus in order to curtail these effects as well as keeping people from letting themselves get to the point where they have to choose to abort or not.

The tools and facts are already there. We just need to do a better job of getting the information in people's hands. I don't think getting emotional and calling people "baby killers" is going to help, though.

I agree with you 110%.

As for your last sentence about "baby killer" shoutings. It is true that the emotional reactions do tend to hurt the cause. I find that when I talk to those who support abortion that putting the burden of proof on their shoulders as for WHY killing is the way to go is the best route because I can always come back with a reasoned responce of a person who attempts to use the same argument to kill animals and other living people or destory the eco-system (if they are THAT far left)

Those who support life need to STOP feeling like they must DEFEND life. We need to put the opposition on the DEFENSIVE and make THEM defend their cause, for when we do that, their arguments fall apart and they end up looking stupid.

The truth is that getting emotional will not bring one life back. Yet if we look at it logically as the abortion supporters do, then we can kill their reasoning and maybe stop one more person from choosing or voting for abortion rights.

 

[She]

What's better? To simply throw fits and succumb to your emotions on the subject or to go to the root cause of the issue and deal with it in an organized and focused manner?

The current "strategy" of the pro-life movement is obviously not working or else the situation would be better and not worse.

The reason it does not work is that both sides are too extreme. The Pro-Life side keep going on about life starting at conception, whilst the Pro-Choice side think that abortion should be available almost up to the last week of pregnancy. These two POV are far too extreme.

If each side was more reasonable, it would help the situation to become less horrifying. Partial birth abortion, for example is, clearly, murder of the most heinous form. Most people would agree with that.

Whilst at the other end of the pregnancy, i.e. in very early pregnancy, there could be seen to be doubt over whether the embryo is yet a baby. Even St Augustine drew a distinction between a formed fetus and an unformed fetus i.e. an embryo, blastocyst or zygote.

If only everyone could agree to bring the time of abortion down to a lesser stage of pregnancy i.e. within the first trimester, things would be much less horrific. 'Quickening' does not happen until after the first trimester, at 12 weeks of pregnancy. This is when the fetus starts moving. There are also earlier stages where the fetus is less developed than it is later on.

But the most controversial thing, for me, is the fact that the abortion clinics make women wait until the embryo is six weeks old before carrying out an abortion (so that they can see it on the monitor). There is no excuse for that, especially when you bear in mind that the embryo has a brain at that stage and, therefore, the identity and soul could be said to be present at that stage.

 

[overit]

Not once formed. For your statistic to be true, we would have to include fertilized eggs as well, BEFORE implantation.

Out of six children, I only miscarried one BEFORE it was fully formed i.e. at six weeks gestation. None were miscarried after being formed.

St Augustine drew the distinction between formed and unformed fetuses. These days the abortion clinics request that a woman waits until AFTER the fetus is six weeks old before having an abortion so that they can view it on the monitor. There is something very, very wrong with that policy, IMO.

Usually, when an unformed fetus (i.e. an embryo, blastocyst or zygote) is naturally rejected by the woman's body, it is because there is something wrong with it. In other words it is non-viable or severely handicapped. This natural occurrence is very different to people going to the abortion clinic and waiting until after six weeks gestation, when, in actual fact, because it has not been naturally aborted yet, the embryo is, most likely, not severely handicapped.

Also, there are stages of development which should be respected. Once the brain starts being formed (before six weeks gestation), some people believe that the child's soul is present. That should be respected.

She, there are several things I typically say in this matter, but I don' think I will get involved this time, I did however want to respond to one thing you said, and that is that the clinics want the person to be at least 6 wks in order to view on the screen. While this is true and it can be safer for the woman so a dr can view what they are doing, keep in mind that ALL pro-life organizations also VEHEMENTLY opposed the RU abortifacient which would be used way before the 6 weeks, they also vehemently oppose the morning after pill which is like taking two days worth of regular bc, and as well they vehemently (but not as vocally) oppose any method of birthcontrol. So, even if women wanted to a) avoid pregnancy b) prevent it by the morning after pill or c) end w/in a week or two after conception by using the RU pill, all of these steps would be opposed by the pro-life side. So it's hard to use that argument in a way.
Anoter thing, there is a high percentage of 17yr olds wanting an abortion, but because of parental consent laws, they may have to wait until they are 18 which many times brings them from 4 wks pg to a full 4-5 months before they can seek an abortion without parental consent (the dreaded late term abortions!). Most pro-life methods have done nothing but hurt their case, delay abortions to later and play with "save the babies" rhetoric as their main concern, when their agendas are clearly different.

 

[BigMike835]

I agree with you 110%.

As for your last sentence about "baby killer" shoutings. It is true that the emotional reactions do tend to hurt the cause. I find that when I talk to those who support abortion that putting the burden of proof on their shoulders as for WHY killing is the way to go is the best route because I can always come back with a reasoned responce of a person who attempts to use the same argument to kill animals and other living people or destory the eco-system (if they are THAT far left)

Those who support life need to STOP feeling like they must DEFEND life. We need to put the opposition on the DEFENSIVE and make THEM defend their cause, for when we do that, their arguments fall apart and they end up looking stupid.

The truth is that getting emotional will not bring one life back. Yet if we look at it logically as the abortion supporters do, then we can kill their reasoning and maybe stop one more person from choosing or voting for abortion rights.

I'm getting scared because I actually agree with you on something

 

[allhart]

I agree with what you are saying about the economic impacts that overzealous population control bring...abortion being one of the tools of this. China's got too many men and Japan has too many old people which will cause a lot of issues for them in the next decade and beyond.

Amusing fact: Japan has actually been putting a lot of money and effort into making robots that care for the elderly and fill a lot of other labor roles that they predict will be empty because of the lack of 20-30 year olds in comparison to the elderly population. That's another story, though...

Planned Parenthood got in trouble in Brazil a few years back for secretly sterilizing people. It's a crime to permanently sterylize yourself in Brazil.

The problem is these haven't been directly attributed to abortion so much as other social issues. There needs to be that line drawn between these two issues to connect them in the public eye.

The other problem is bringing these statistics home to people. There tends to be a "this can't happen to me" or "doesn't apply to me" attitude among most people when statistics showing major socio-economical implications are brought out. It's not until they or someone they know is included in the mess that they actually acknowledge the issue and take active steps to correct it.

This is why I think preventative education should be a much bigger focus in order to curtail these effects as well as keeping people from letting themselves get to the point where they have to choose to abort or not.

The tools and facts are already there. We just need to do a better job of getting the information in people's hands. I don't think getting emotional and calling people "baby killers" is going to help, though.

PEOPLE NEED TO SEE HOW THEY KILL THE BABIES FIRST HAND (VIDEO'S). RIGHT IN THERE FACES EVERY WHERE ,ALSO WHERE ARE THE GRAVES SITES. SIGHT IS ONE OF THE SENSES,NO GRAVES NO SENSE OF LOSE. SHOW THEM THE EFFECTS ON FAMILY'S AFTER THE FACT. THE WOMEN THAT ARE DIEING INSIDE. AND THERE IS EMOTIONS INVOLVED. WHEN YOU KNOW AND SEE ALL THE DYSFUNCTION AND DEATH AND HEART ACHE. THIS DOESN'T MEAN GO AND DISHONOR GOD BY ADMINISTERING VIOLENCE ;HOWEVER BE VILLI GENT IN THE CAUSE . STEAD FAST. NEVER WAIVER IN THE TRUTH.

 

[BigMike835]

PEOPLE NEED TO SEE HOW THEY KILL THE BABIES FIRST HAND (VIDEO'S). RIGHT IN THERE FACES EVERY WHERE ,ALSO WHERE ARE THE GRAVES SITES. SIGHT IS ONE OF THE SENSES,NO GRAVES NO SENSE OF LOSE. SHOW THEM THE EFFECTS ON FAMILY'S AFTER THE FACT. THE WOMEN THAT ARE DIEING INSIDE. AND THERE IS EMOTIONS INVOLVED. WHEN YOU KNOW AND SEE ALL THE DYSFUNCTION AND DEATH AND HEART ACHE. THIS DOESN'T MEAN GO AND DISHONOR GOD BY ADMINISTERING VIOLENCE ;HOWEVER BE VILLI GENT IN THE CAUSE . STEAD FAST. NEVER WAIVER IN THE TRUTH.

...and this is why abortion is still legal and going strong.

Showing horrific images everywhere will just disgust people and make them want to put it out of their mind. It's way too extreme and alienates the average person.

The average person is who you want to reach, not repel. The average person is the voter and the one who is most likely going to have to make such a decision someday.

It seems like you're more interested in having a war with pro-abortionists that are just as extreme and over the top as you are only in the opposite direction.

I think both of these sides border on terrorism.

 

[allhart]

...and this is why abortion is still legal and going strong.

Showing horrific images everywhere will just disgust people and make them want to put it out of their mind. It's way too extreme and alienates the average person.

The average person is who you want to reach, not repel. The average person is the voter and the one who is most likely going to have to make such a decision someday.

It seems like you're more interested in having a war with pro-abortionists that are just as extreme and over the top as you are only in the opposite direction.

I think both of these sides border on terrorism.

MEEK NOT WEAK AND WITH DO RESPECT I FIRMLY DISAGREE SORRY HOWEVER DONE GETTER DONE IN A LOVING WAY

 

[Confess]

I'm getting scared because I actually agree with you on something

BOO!

 

[Confess]

PEOPLE NEED TO SEE HOW THEY KILL THE BABIES FIRST HAND (VIDEO'S). RIGHT IN THERE FACES EVERY WHERE ,ALSO WHERE ARE THE GRAVES SITES. SIGHT IS ONE OF THE SENSES,NO GRAVES NO SENSE OF LOSE. SHOW THEM THE EFFECTS ON FAMILY'S AFTER THE FACT. THE WOMEN THAT ARE DIEING INSIDE. AND THERE IS EMOTIONS INVOLVED. WHEN YOU KNOW AND SEE ALL THE DYSFUNCTION AND DEATH AND HEART ACHE. THIS DOESN'T MEAN GO AND DISHONOR GOD BY ADMINISTERING VIOLENCE ;HOWEVER BE VILLI GENT IN THE CAUSE . STEAD FAST. NEVER WAIVER IN THE TRUTH.

allhart,
I appreciate the passion, but to tell you the truth ... the reason why people are FOR abortion is because they are immune to the reality of what happens to the baby when it is killed.

They know what is happening, most women who go into the clinic know as well. They go in believing the rhetoric they have been told and don't see the baby as a real baby. Just as when we watch horror movies, we become immune to the violence, so too do these women who choose to abort. Their hearts are cold and hard. Only a woman with a cold, hard heart can murder her own child.

So basically what I am saying is that when you shove these things in their faces, you are only making them feel justified for what they are doing. Sure, some women will be moved to stop doing what they were about to do, but that doesn't justify what you are advocating.

The best way to deal with these women is to present the facts in a respectable way, for when they stop seeing you as a threat, they will begin hearing what you have to say.

 

[Confess]

...and this is why abortion is still legal and going strong.

Showing horrific images everywhere will just disgust people and make them want to put it out of their mind. It's way too extreme and alienates the average person.

The average person is who you want to reach, not repel. The average person is the voter and the one who is most likely going to have to make such a decision someday.

It seems like you're more interested in having a war with pro-abortionists that are just as extreme and over the top as you are only in the opposite direction.

I think both of these sides border on terrorism.

I think that there are remnants to each side that go to the extreme.

I have been apart of Lutherans for Life and other prolife groups. They do not advocate such extremes.

 

[WalkingforHim]

god doesn't murder. He can take anyone if he likes for the good or bad justly;however, we do murder and there is nothing justified in it . That puts blood on ones hands

God is not subject to His own standard of morality? I keep hear God can not abide sin, but sin loses all meaning if God can break the laws and still be moral.

One set of rules for the high, and one set for the low, much like the world in which this religion developed.

 

[Gusoceros]

God is not subject to His own standard of morality? I keep hear God can not abide sin, but sin loses all meaning if God can break the laws and still be moral.

One set of rules for the high, and one set for the low, much like the world in which this religion developed.

God is the Judge, the Perfect Judge of who has sinned, and who hasnt. It is God's Job to decide who lives, and who doesnt.

Murder, is killing someone unjustly. God is ALWAYS Just in his Judgements. That is why He is God.

God cant murder- it is impossible.

G

 

[allhart]

God is the Judge, the Perfect Judge of who has sinned, and who hasnt. It is God's Job to decide who lives, and who doesnt.

Murder, is killing someone unjustly. God is ALWAYS Just in his Judgements. That is why He is God.

God cant murder- it is impossible.

G

O.K. wouldn't you protect you mom if there where going to attack her even kill her isn't are jobs to protect the innocent

 

[allhart]

allhart,
I appreciate the passion, but to tell you the truth ... the reason why people are FOR abortion is because they are immune to the reality of what happens to the baby when it is killed.

They know what is happening, most women who go into the clinic know as well. They go in believing the rhetoric they have been told and don't see the baby as a real baby. Just as when we watch horror movies, we become immune to the violence, so too do these women who choose to abort. Their hearts are cold and hard. Only a woman with a cold, hard heart can murder her own child.

So basically what I am saying is that when you shove these things in their faces, you are only making them feel justified for what they are doing. Sure, some women will be moved to stop doing what they were about to do, but that doesn't justify what you are advocating.

The best way to deal with these women is to present the facts in a respectable way, for when they stop seeing you as a threat, they will begin hearing what you have to say.

I'm not always or even close to being politically correct. thats not my agenda its the truth that I'm after .but thank you for your kindness. If i could only take the place of those babies. Jesus did that for us.