Abortion

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

In A Perfect World said:
That's a lame excuse. You should have signed a contract beforehand in which the terms were explicitly layed out.

Occam's razor

Sex is a contract. Just because you didnt read or disregarded the fine print doesnt mean you have the option of weaseling your way out of if what the fine print explains happens.

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

Every gun owner is aware of its capabilities. Would it be logical for some one who uses their gun regularly around people, that if he hit someone, accident or not, put all of the blame on the bullet? And that its not manslaughter because It was the gun that shot the bullet? What do you tell the victim before they die, "Its my gun, so its my choice."? All the intentions, excuses and reasons dont change the fact; the gun owner was useing a weapon, a tool designed with killing as its purpose. If your not ready to accept all the responsabilities and realities of owning a gun, quit playing with it.

Sure guns can be fun at the range, but they were and are designed to kill.
Sure sex can be fun, but it was and is designed to create... life. Intentions, excuses and reasons dont change that fact.

In A Perfect World · Jun 23, 2005

]Fa||eN[ said:
Sure guns can be fun at the range, but they were and are designed to kill.
Sure sex can be fun, but it was and is designed to create... life. Intentions, excuses and reasons dont change that fact.

Man invented guns. Man dind't invent sex. It was there before he was. It wasn't designed. It became that process.

In A Perfect World · Jun 23, 2005

]Fa||eN[ said:
Sex is a contract. Just because you didnt read or disregarded the fine print doesnt mean you have the option of weaseling your way out of if what the fine print explains happens.

Sex isn't a contract

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

In A Perfect World said:
Sex isn't a contract

If it wasnt it would be rape. Ive never heard of a man tripping and falling in to a woman and her becoming pregnant, dont tell em sex isnt a contract. You havent the slightest idea of what your talking about, you think you do, but you dont. Have you had sex yet? With your outlook on it, i hope the answer is no.

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

In A Perfect World said:
Man invented guns. Man dind't invent sex. It was there before he was. It wasn't designed. It became that process.

This is your rebutle to my analogy? Thankyou for your funfacts but this is in no way pertinent information in regards to the analogy and or towards disproving it, therfor it is irrelevant.

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

In A Perfect World said:
That's a lame excuse. You should have signed a contract beforehand in which the terms were explicitly layed out.

Occam's razor

Please explain your application of Occam's Razor in your response.

In A Perfect World · Jun 23, 2005

]Fa||eN[ said:
Please explain your application of Occam's Razor in your response.

According to your "story", you want to have sex but don't want to use protection (assumed), and you think your sperm is part of a contract. You don't want it used for conception, yet you want to have sex anyway? This don't make sense, and to apply Occam's Razor to all the BS, you wind up with: you really don't want to have sex because you don't want a child PERIOD, or you plain jsut don't want to use contraception.

In A Perfect World · Jun 23, 2005

]Fa||eN[ said:
If it wasnt it would be rape. Ive never heard of a man tripping and falling in to a woman and her becoming pregnant, dont tell em sex isnt a contract. You havent the slightest idea of what your talking about, you think you do, but you dont. Have you had sex yet? With your outlook on it, i hope the answer is no.

What are the terms of the contract?

Do you want to have sex? Yes. No.

Do you want to use protection? Yes. No.

I've never heard of this idea that you didn't want your sperm to impregnate a woman. That falls under protection - yes or no.

Cheli · Jun 23, 2005

She had no problem getting something to squeeze in...why stress about it squeezing out?...

Oh for the love of.....!! It's a little different, y'know?!

Many women pick losers to make babies with and should have known better.

People aren't perfect. Mistakes are made. Cut 'em some slack would ya! And if you want to blame someone, blame your god for making us imperfect.

And anyway, sex isn't just about procreation. For me, conceiving would be an unfortunate by-product of a pleasurable activity no matter who my partner was (be he husband, life partner, boyfriend, occasional sexual partner or one night stand.)

Seeking... · Jun 23, 2005

Let's simplify...

A man & woman without committment (no marriage, no engagement, no civil union, no cohabitation, no jointly owned assets). He has no rights to her uterous (no parental rights/responsibilities either) and she has no rights to his wallet. Unless sex can be proved to be coercive on either parties side, he forces her - she can get child support if she chooses to keep & he still gets no parental rights, but if she forces him - he can't force an abortion (no way to make completely fair...) - though he could get custody and child support from her.

A man & woman with committment (marriage, civil union, cohabitation, joint ownership of assets). Joint consent required for abortion. Child support automatic. This is unless coercive force or abuse is present (evidence required) in the relationship. He forces her, she can abort without his consent by waiver of the court. She forces him, he can opt out of parental rights and not pay a thing or take custody and get support from her.

No this is not a joke. I think something like this makes all parties a lot more responsible.

Fantine · Jun 23, 2005

For a country in which so many people hate abortion, we sure have a lot of them. Many more than Europeans do, more than three times as many.

The most militant pro-lifers are anti-contraception, anti-sex education, anti-Planned Parenthood. Because of their multi-frontal attack, we probably have many more abortions in this country than we would otherwise.

If I had to hazard a guess which would drastically reduce the number of abortions--available health care with contraceptive options and sex ed that promoted abstinence but educated kids about alternatives or our current situation--many people uninsured, many people not practicing birth control, and abstinence-only sex ed--I would say that the first would drastically reduce abortions more.

Why? Because it works in Europe.

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

In A Perfect World said:
According to your "story", you want to have sex but don't want to use protection (assumed), and you think your sperm is part of a contract. You don't want it used for conception, yet you want to have sex anyway? This don't make sense, and to apply Occam's Razor to all the BS, you wind up with: you really don't want to have sex because you don't want a child PERIOD, or you plain jsut don't want to use contraception.

Useing protection or contraceptives is the RESPONSABILITY of the individuals. However these 'protections' and/or 'contraceptives' have been known not to be %1oo foolproof, therefor the individuals should also take into consideration that there is a risk which involves further responsabilities. Your pointing at the trees and missing the forest.

Electric Sceptic · Jun 23, 2005

]Fa||eN[ said:
I gave consent to sex for pleasure only, not procreation. The climax of the pleasure being attained through [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which in the male results in discharge of sperm. Both consenting parties are aware of this fact. Its her body, its her choice, therefor willingly or not she breached a contract by becoming pregnant and miss-useing my sperm.

Except that there was no 'contract'.

Gwendar Evergreen · Jun 23, 2005

In A Perfect World said:
That's nice, but for the first few eeks of pregnancy, the :fetus: is nothing but a clump of cells with human potential. Woman have natural abortions triggered by her body all the time. In fact, the pill doesn't prevent fertilization, just sticking of the embryo to the uterine wall. So women on the pill I suppose have as many abortions a month as they have sex. Thousands of times more guilty than one woman who has one abortion.

I don't mean to be rude, but I must correct you.
The Pill does prevent fertilization, unless researchers are lying to us. I have a little booklet right here that comes with each pack of pills I take, and it says this:
"Birth control pills work in two ways:
1. they inhibit the monthly release of an egg by the ovaries.
2. they change the mucus produced by the cervix. This slows the movement of the sperm through the mucus and through the uterus (womb)."

So, since (if pills are taken correctly) eggs (ova) aren't released, there is nothing in the uterus to be fertilized by sperm.

Also, you say that women on the pill have as many abortions as the number of times they have sex. This is also untrue, because there are only several days after the release of an egg that a woman can become pregnant. Unfortunately, I have no direct source to quote, only that this information should available in perhaps any biology text book that covers reproduction!

*Hopes she remembers the info correctly* <--- If not, please, someone correct me!

Seeking... · Jun 23, 2005

]Fa||eN[ said:
I gave consent to sex for pleasure only, not procreation. The climax of the pleasure being attained through [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which in the male results in discharge of sperm. Both consenting parties are aware of this fact. Its her body, its her choice, therefor willingly or not she breached a contract by becoming pregnant and miss-useing my sperm.

Possession is 9/10 ths of the law. You - willingly or not- left a deposit. That deposit isn't yours once you leave it. Actually, aren't you in violation of the contract by not doing your due dillegence to prevent more than just pleasure occuring?

To sum up - better double glove and flush when you are done...

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

Electric Sceptic said:
Except that there was no 'contract'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by: ]Fa||eN[

I gave consent to sex for pleasure only, not procreation. The climax of the pleasure being attained through [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which in the male results in discharge of sperm. Both consenting parties are aware of this fact. Its her body, its her choice, therefor willingly or not she breached a contract by becoming pregnant and miss-useing my sperm.

There is an agreement on sex. Sex is how we reproduce. Both parties participate accepting ALL ramifications and effects of engaging in intercourse. Dont play with fire without accepting all of its possibilities, one of which is that you can get burned. Is it the fire's fault i got burned? No, its the fact that i was playing with fire. Now i have to live with the burn.

Electric Sceptic · Jun 23, 2005

]Fa||eN[ said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by: ]Fa||eN[

I gave consent to sex for pleasure only, not procreation. The climax of the pleasure being attained through [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] which in the male results in discharge of sperm. Both consenting parties are aware of this fact. Its her body, its her choice, therefor willingly or not she breached a contract by becoming pregnant and miss-useing my sperm.

There is an agreement on sex. Sex is how we reproduce. Both parties participate accepting ALL ramifications and effects of engaging in intercourse. Dont play with fire without accepting all of its possibilities, one of which is that you can get burned. Is it the fire's fault i got burned? No, its the fact that i was playing with fire. Now i have to live with the burn.

And one of the ramifications is possible pregnancy. So what?

jesusfreak3786 · Jun 23, 2005

Electric Sceptic said:
And one of the ramifications is possible pregnancy. So what?

]RiSeN[ · Jun 23, 2005

All anyone trying to justify abortions has given on this thread are excuses, excuses backed by a selfish concern for ones precious self-centered comfort. Stop resisting and denying accountability for your actions people. Its called being an adult.

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