Abortion to prevent increased suffering

[o_mlly]

And why do you claim that is unfalsifiable?

How do you falsify what another person's "wants"? (In order not to violate forum guidelines, I did not preface the translation with, "The female atheist poster from down-under feels that ...")

No, I agree that it is evidence of death. ...

Good. Now show us how that relates to the thread.

Do you premise without argument that the events evidencing the beginning of life parallel the events evidencing the end of life? Make the case.

Where did you get the word "CONSENSUS" from? I said it was a particular scientist's OPINION.

Apparently you've neglected to study the numerous resource materials I provided in the previous post.

The predominance of human biological research confirms that human life begins at conception—fertilization. At fertilization, the human being emerges as a whole, genetically distinct, individuated zygotic living human organism, a member of the species Homo sapiens, needing only the proper environment in order to grow and develop. The difference between the individual in its adult stage and in its zygotic stage is one of form, not nature. This statement focuses on the scientific evidence of when an individual human life begins.
When Human Life Begins
American College of Pediatricians – March 2017​

"Consensus" does not mean universal agreement. There will always be irrational bias even in scientists and, of course, in science-deniers.

... not to mention an immature tone.

And spare me your condescending comments; they are unbecoming to you. Because of your repeated strawmen arguments, ignoring facts provided, circular argumentation, and illogical propositions I will not respond to your future post unless you have a new fact or argument to present.

 

[SapphirePrincess]

Let’s only consider the abortions where the early zygote, that isn’t conscious and can’t feel anything, isn’t wanted for whatever reason. Assuming they’ll go to heaven in some capacity, why would it be better to take them full term just to be put into foster care and possibly suffer mental/physical abuse that will effect them for an entire lifetime? Will their reward in heaven be greater if they endure a lifetime of suffering? Is that the only justification for taking it full term to birth?

Any argument you use can apply to a toddler or a 5 year old. Just remember that. Why not help them instead? Is this really concern for their welfare (when you are capable of helping them), or for your desire not to be burdened (by your conscience) with the hard work of supporting people who are hurting?

In addition, is it really your place, not only to predict their future, but to determine that based on your prophecy, they should not be allowed to live?

It is not your place to judge God's purposes. It is your place to *love* orphans and the poor and abused, to provide succour and assistance.

Is it an expression of love to kill someone who may be unwilling to die? Is it an expression of love to kill someone for suffering that you or we can alleviate? Is it an expression of love to decide their life is unworthy of life? Is it an expression of love to hold someone else's life as completely hopeless, just because it may suit a pro-abort narrative and soothe the conscience?

 

[Kylie]

Any argument you use can apply to a toddler or a 5 year old. Just remember that.

No it can't. Chriliman specifically used the example of a very early zygote that "isn’t conscious and can’t feel anything." This clearly does not apply to toddlers or five year olds.

 

[o_mlly]

No it can't. Chriliman specifically used the example of a very early zygote that "isn’t conscious and can’t feel anything." This clearly does not apply to toddlers or five year olds.

Chrillman has not yet told us why one may not kill a sleeping 5 year old toddler in a deep sleep. Can you?

 

[Chriliman]

Chrillman has not yet told us why one may not kill a sleeping 5 year old toddler in a deep sleep. Can you?

The way I addressed this was to acknowledge the differences in development of human qualities between the zygote and the sleeping baby. Qualities like capable of consciousness, pain receptors, and viability. A sleeping baby has all that, a zygote does not. This at least justifies not giving the zygote as much rights as the sleeping baby, regardless if you're trying to decide to end it’s life or not.

 

[o_mlly]

Qualities like capable of ...

Observing either the sleeping baby and the preborn child, one cannot observe evidence of "consciousness, pain receptors, and viability". However, both the sleeping child and the preborn are capable i.e., have the potential, of doing so at another time or place. One's right to life does not depend on the immediate and continuous display (to those who would kill you) of life.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I think if you cannot distinguish between a sleeping 5-year-old and a fetus, you shouldn’t be claiming to know more than a pregnant person’s doctor about the care said pregnant person needs/is entitled to.

 

[o_mlly]

I think if you cannot distinguish between a sleeping 5-year-old and a fetus, you shouldn’t be claiming to know more than a pregnant person’s doctor about the care said pregnant person needs/is entitled to.

You'll have to try harder at being clever.

I do know what the other "person needs/is entitled to", i.e., life.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

You'll have to try harder at being clever.

Not trying to be clever, merely stating a fact.

I do know what the other "person needs/is entitled to", i.e., life.

Bumper sticker rhetoric isn’t my jam, so I’m probably not your target audience with the above soap opera sentiment.

 

[o_mlly]

Not trying to be clever, merely stating a fact.

Not all opinions are facts, especially your post.

Bumper sticker rhetoric isn’t my jam, so I’m probably not your target audience with the above soap opera sentiment.

Spoken like someone who is already safely born.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Not all opinions are facts, especially your post.

So you keep saying, despite the fact that you’re the one who came up with the ridiculous analogy.

Spoken like someone who is already safely born.

Spoken like someone who has not the first clue about me or my medical history. Another reason why your less-than-informed opinion doesn’t have a place in the discussion of another person’s medical needs and care.

 

[Kylie]

Chrillman has not yet told us why one may not kill a sleeping 5 year old toddler in a deep sleep. Can you?

You don't seriously think that's the same thing as a pregnant woman, do you?

 

[o_mlly]

Spoken like someone who has not the first clue ...

What clue am I missing that confirms you are already born? Please stay objective if you wish to continue the exchange,

 

[o_mlly]

You don't seriously think that's the same thing as a pregnant woman, do you?

? Where does killing the pregnant woman occur in this thread?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

What clue am I missing that confirms you are already born? Please stay objective if you wish to continue the exchange,

I am being objective, you’re the one relying on speculation and rhetoric.

 

[o_mlly]

I am being objective, you’re the one relying on speculation and rhetoric.

Whining and posting ad hominems are not arguments. So, as I handle all irrational posts, "If you say so, TW."

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Who’s whining? If you want or need people to detail the difference between a fetus and a sleeping 5-year-old because you don’t know, that’s your issue. I simply said being unable to differentiate between the two is why laypeople like yourself have no place interjecting your uninformed opinion into the discussions about care happening between a pregnant person and their doctor. You’re unqualified and uninformed in both science and the specific needs of the person getting the pregnancy care.

 

[o_mlly]

Who’s whining?

If you post an argument, I'll respond. If you go on with the ad hominems then I hope you get over yourself.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Again, it was your analogy, not mine.

 

[Kylie]

? Where does killing the pregnant woman occur in this thread?

If that's what you think this is what I'm saying, then you REALLY don't understand my position at all.