Abortion: The Real Reason Why States are Passing Laws Against It

OldWiseGuy said:

Carrying a child to full term does limit their sexual activity for sure.

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This has nothing to do with my response. Perhaps you would care to comment on the topic of stopping abortion to try to force women into making the choices you feel are acceptable?

Carl Emerson said:

My confidence in the modern church is not high and I dont think this is a Pastors role biblically.
Inspired believers would need to get involved in the process.
If Christian lawyers could help the lawmakers to recognise the unborn as humans, this would help greatly. As it stands mothers are brainwashed into believing they are not about to take a life. This is one of the underlying reasons for the high abortion rate.

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That did not answer my question. Are you on board with working to limit the reasons women choose to abort?

tall73 said:

So because he thinks this it is projected onto all Christians? Doesn't follow.

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I did not say that. What I said was limiting abortion via legislation is about controlling women's sexuality. Obviously this is not true in all cases but it is true enough. I used to be pro life until I actually tried to get people to address the issues underlying why women choose abortion. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of pro life people who have been on board with the idea. The rest shunned me and accused me of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Belk said:

Thank you for your honesty. It is good to see what we have long suspected but most pro-life people deny. This is about controlling women's sexuality.

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I see it as improving society. If that means “controlling women’s sexuality”, eh, whatever. I can roll with that.

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Belk said:

...I actually tried to get people to address the issues underlying why women choose abortion. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of pro life people who have been on board with the idea. The rest shunned me and accused me of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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You can count me as a pro-life person who is on board. I am staunchly pro-life, which for me includes the issues of abortion, capital punishment and euthanasia.
However it also also overlaps into issues of poverty, health care, war, guns, immigration, and protection of minorities. I try to look at every issue through the lens of life being sacred, all of it.

As this applies to abortion, I don't think government should be funding it (and it doesn't). otoh, I DO see this as a huge healthcare issue; pre/post natal care as well as the woman's healthcare pre/post pregnancy. Then there's the issues of poverty and increasing inequality in the economics of our country. Let's face it, abortion legal or not, will always be an option for those with enough means. For that matter, 'affordable healthcare' is commensurate with wealth/income in the USA.

70% of abortions are by those who claim to be Christians (Lifeway Research, SBC) and a majority are kept silent/secret (Christian Post article on the same research). The blatant hypocrisy on this issue is appalling to me. Even when Focus on the Family tries to spin it positively, the conclusion remains “if nobody is willing to say, ‘We’re going to help you through this,’ it’s hard for them to rationally say they should keep the child.”
Which gets back to your point; society and even more the church needs to address the underlying issues.
If Christians wanted to reduce abortions by more than half, they'd stop getting them and start being pro-life and not merely (hypocritically) anti-abortion.

OldWiseGuy said:

Trust me. Women not only have sex with men they don't like, but with men they don't even know.

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Hi OWG,

Yes, I understand that in this activity of sexual relations between men and women which likely goes on hundreds of thousands of times each day, that there are some cases where a woman may have such relations with a man that she doesn't really know. Prostitution would be the best example of this. However, I don't think that prostitutes are the majority of abortion recipients. I'm not too familiar with the profession, but it would seem to me that if one's livelihood depended on being able to have such relations with anyone and everyone who is willing to pay the price, that some caution would be taken to not wind up pregnant.

So, I do trust you concerning this matter. I just don't think that this segment of women is anywhere near the majority of abortion recipients. I also trust that there are women who had relations with someone that, certainly at the time, they felt some closeness for. Then when they announced the good news that they were pregnant, their white knight took off like a bat out of,...well, you know.

There are likely at least a half dozen reasons that a woman, once finding out that she is pregnant, wants to obtain an abortion. I just don't think that women having relations with someone that they really don't like or care about is a particularly large segment of that group. I also believe that someone who expresses the kind of view that such is the case, probably doesn't have a clue about 'why' women seek abortions. Or, much understanding of the kinds of sexual relations that lead up to this request.

It is my belief that these relations, when they are being carried out, are generally between two people that, at the very least, like and care about each other. However, the enormity of the issue of the woman coming back a couple of weeks after the event and saying that they are pregnant, or just finding out for themselves that the event brought about conception, is likely more than they feel that they want to take responsibility for.

Many young women, that would be high school and college age, have sexual relations and can be fairly careless in understanding the possible consequences. Then when those most serious consequences come about, they aren't prepared to accept that they're going to have to raise a child or carry a child to term and then put the child up for adoption. These women look at the available options, and for them in whatever circumstance they are in, decide that having an abortion is the least complicated of their options. We are all prone to taking the easy way out.

Now, if we make abortion procedures illegal, that's not likely to have much affect on young men and women getting caught up in the moment of sexual lust. I honestly can't imagine that such actions are preceded by one thinking, "Well, if their is a pregnancy that comes from this moment of lust, there's always an abortion." Two people just get carried away on the wings of their lust and then, BAM!!! a couple of weeks later it looks like that 30 minutes or so of 'loving' produced a child. Personally, I believe that's the reason for the majority of abortion requests. Not the only reason, of course, but the majority.

Then you have affairs. Married women having relations with someone other than their husbands and, Uh-oh, someone's eating for two. That woman is not likely to just go to her husband and tell him what's going on. She's much more likely to find a way to 'do away with the evidence'. Sexual lust is a very, very powerful motivator and young people having relations and married people having relations with someone who is not their spouse are very real issues that bring about a lot of these situations.

Or, we could fall back on the biblical instructions God gave unto Israel. In the case of young people, even if a man only has relations with a young woman and it doesn't wind up in conception, he is to marry her. The adulterer, again even if such relations don't bring about a conception, is to be stoned to death. Or, we as believers, could understand the truth of the Scriptures. That the world, in general, is not going to ascribe to the law of God in these things or any other such things. But the believer understands that it is not his job to 'save the world'. It is his job to keep himself from sin. To teach the love that God has for each one of us through His Son, Jesus. But to keep the world from sin isn't a part of our job description.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Belk said:

I did not say that. What I said was limiting abortion via legislation is about controlling women's sexuality. Obviously this is not true in all cases but it is true enough. I used to be pro life until I actually tried to get people to address the issues underlying why women choose abortion. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of pro life people who have been on board with the idea. The rest shunned me and accused me of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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I still consider myself "pro-life" although ironically (paradoxically?) I am against the "pro-life" political movement(s). Because they have proven to me that they are not pro-life, they are only extremely, fanatically anti-abortion. The same people who are worried about an unborn child will throw the elderly into "nursing homes", will complain about their elderly parents being burdens, will let children go hungry in public schools to save a few cents in taxes, will use their moral high horse to bludgeon people, and on and on and on.

The people in the movements who say they're "pro-life" are anything but. They are just anti-abortion and they don't have a heart for people who are outside of the womb.

And that's why they fail to get anything accomplished about stopping any abortions. They are frauds and hypocrites and deserve to fail.

Belk said:

This has nothing to do with my response. Perhaps you would care to comment on the topic of stopping abortion to try to force women into making the choices you feel are acceptable?

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I honestly don't have strong feelings one way or another about it.

I’m much less pro-choice than I am anti-criminalization. I agree that terminating a pregnancy for less than medical reasons or sexual assault is morally suspect. But not everything immoral has to be illegal. A fetus is a separate individual from the mother, but it’s living in her uterus and using her heart, lungs, and other organ systems. The fact that she’s pregnant shouldn’t negate her bodily autonomy for a full 9 months. Criminalizing abortion at all stages of pregnancy is just too authoritarian. It gives way too much power to the government. There has to be a compromise. Just split the average 40 week gestation down the middle. From fertilization through 20 weeks, abortion is a medical matter between a woman and her doctor. After 20 weeks, a state can restrict it to medical reasons only. It’s arbitrary, but so what? All laws are arbitrary. What’s more important is that it’s fair, reasonable, and workable. And what’s wrong with that?

ChicanaRose said:

You can certainly do that for yourself.

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Sorry, I don't know how my comment wound up on this thread. I was responding to a different thread. ????

miamited said:

Is there any chance that it's really men having relations with women that they don't really like?

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We all know that the women don't have to consent to get pregnant. They certainly don't have to enjoy the act or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] - they don't even have to be conscious during the act, yet somehow it is all their responsibility. How many 10 year olds truly consented? And yet...

If men really want to stop abortions or cut down on them drastically, they should stop putting their [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] inside women, period.

ArmenianJohn said:

I still consider myself "pro-life" although ironically (paradoxically?) I am against the "pro-life" political movement(s). Because they have proven to me that they are not pro-life, they are only extremely, fanatically anti-abortion. The same people who are worried about an unborn child will throw the elderly into "nursing homes", will complain about their elderly parents being burdens, will let children go hungry in public schools to save a few cents in taxes, will use their moral high horse to bludgeon people, and on and on and on.

The people in the movements who say they're "pro-life" are anything but. They are just anti-abortion and they don't have a heart for people who are outside of the womb.

And that's why they fail to get anything accomplished about stopping any abortions. They are frauds and hypocrites and deserve to fail.

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This post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the entire matter, and I've found it to be extremely accurate over the years.

Why do people in my state vote so heavily Republican? I haven't lived here long enough to figure it out. Pressure from evangelical ministers. Manipulation by Koch Brothers character assassination advertising. People haven't learned yet that guns and gay bashing aren't as important as fair wages, compassionate safety nets, and clean air and water.

They are stubbornly independent without realizing that all the cards are stacked against them and seeking a level playing field isn't a concession to weakness.

There's a book written by a West Virginian, Deer Hunting With Jesus, that analyzes it pretty well.

As for the politicians, people who support "life" for nine months out of 80 years (or 960 months) are less than 1% pro life in my book. Not in it for the long haul, nope.

rjs330 said:

Oh wait... We already have that.

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Not in the U.S. Not at all.

W2L said:

Im glad my mother didnt abort me. Also i dont believe in a theocracy.

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And I’ll bet you’re glad your parents had sex!

Sparagmos said:

And I’ll bet you’re glad your parents had sex!

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Yes, and glad i wasnt aborted.

W2L said:

Yes, and glad i wasnt aborted.

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Why? If what Christians say about the afterlife is true you would be in paradise right now had you been aborted.

Belk said:

I did not say that. What I said was limiting abortion via legislation is about controlling women's sexuality. Obviously this is not true in all cases but it is true enough. I used to be pro life until I actually tried to get people to address the issues underlying why women choose abortion. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of pro life people who have been on board with the idea. The rest shunned me and accused me of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Didnt we ban partial birth abortions? If so then we have restriction in place already that control women's sexuality. So we can control women's sexuality.