ABORTION POLL 4 - LAST ONE... I Promise

[Annabel Lee]

Did I ever say God causes it to happen???

Yes you did, right here..

If you were raped, god let it happen for a reason.

How is "letting" and "causing" different in this case? If I let my child run out in traffic and get hit by a car, am I not responsible? I was standing right next to her and could have easily stopped her. I let it happen and I caused it to happen by my negligence.

No, he lets it happen... you know that lil 9/11 thing? Yeah he let that happen too.

HE DID NOT!! Stop turning God into a demon!
We humans cause all the horrors that exist on this planet. What possible reason would God have for causing 9/11?

 

[Ampmonster]

i guess abstinence only pales in comparison to the bottom feeding trash ALLover the various mediums

 

[Kelly]

We humans cause all the horrors that exist on this planet. What possible reason would God have for causing 9/11?

God Bless You, Annabel. We have to remember, that if he interveined in every affair and stopped bad things from happening he would be taking away free will.

 

[xMinionX]

If you were raped, god let it happen for a reason.

Please excuse while I go vomit. This is the worst case of "god-gapping" I have ever seen.

As for the poll... what is "natural viability"?

 

[msjones21]

But chemo doesn't kill someone in the process.

No, but it is using medical intervention to prevent your own death. If anything, abortion to save your own life is taking a life in self defense. If I had a husband and three other children I wouldn't leave them behind to grieve and fend for themselves if the option is there to save my own life. Is it selfish to be thinking of the family I would be leaving behind? Sorry, but I don't have a martyr complex.

 

[BarbB]

listen people.. I am just stating my point of view... call me cuss words and degrade me all you won't, but as I have said many times, murder is murder, and by no means am I willing to lower myself to help commit murder nor will the lady I marry.

You all tell me I am sick because i feel not aborting a baby is what needs to happen due to any circumstance....

Killing an innocent baby is worse than being raped or dieing yourself. That baby desirves a right to live, and it does have a soul. "for i created you before the foundations of the earth." That baby has a soul before it's physical body was ever formed, so it doesn't matter when you abort it either.
My feelings for you are mutual, but I sure as heck am not gonna act upon them as most of you have towards me. Not to mention that there are another 4 people that agree with, I am just willing to speak up for what I feel is right, despite the crowd.

Peace

Where is the tolerance?

I agree with ArchAngel. Even in cases of rape (how many does this amount to?)! Even if the mother's life is in danger (yeah, this used to be the old standard and it's junk)!

If a woman is raped and does conceive, the child can be put up for adoption. The child should not suffer for his father's sin! If a woman is too poor or too ill to have a child, use birth control or have your tubes tied! There are services a poor woman can use to have and keep her baby.

Abortion is murder!

 

[BarbB]

No, but it is using medical intervention to prevent your own death. If anything, abortion to save your own life is taking a life in self defense. If I had a husband and three other children I wouldn't leave them behind to grieve and fend for themselves if the option is there to save my own life. Is it selfish to be thinking of the family I would be leaving behind? Sorry, but I don't have a martyr complex.

If you had a husband and 3 children and were too ill to have a child, why did you not use birth control or have your tubes tied?

 

[Kelly]

If you had a husband and 3 children and were too ill to have a child, why did you not use birth control or have your tubes tied?

The scenario posed by msjones21 is a tough one. How many abortions in America today are done to save the mother from death? I need figures.

 

[Annabel Lee]

If you had a husband and 3 children and were too ill to have a child, why did you not use birth control or have your tubes tied?

It's not always a case of being too ill to have a child.
Sometimes things go wrong, as in an ectopic pregnancy. There is no hope for the baby's survival. The child will die because it had the misfortune of attaching to the tubes instead of inside the womb.
And if it's not removed, you can either wait for the walls of the tubes to rupture and put your own life in danger, or remove the fetus.

There are no other options.

If I was told a pregnancy was going to be extremely difficult, I personally would still go through with the pregnancy. But, when there is 0 hope of the child's survival...no.

 

[BarbB]

The scenario posed by msjones21 is a tough one. How many abortions in America today are done to save the mother from death? I need figures.

You know, Kelly, I really don't know. I do know that it was this exception which propelled us into abortion on demand.

I don't mean to sound tough, and you of all people know that I am a softie, but I want people to be responsible with their sexuality. If they are not abstinate for God, they should think of their families and do the right thing. And right now, I don't think that abortion is right under many circumstances.

We must remember that

ROMANS 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Thus even the child of a rape will be worked by God into a good thing for those who love him.

 

[BarbB]

It's not always a case of being too ill to have a child.
Sometimes things go wrong, as in an ectopic pregnancy. There is no hope for the baby's survival. The child will die because it had the misfortune of attaching to the tubes instead of inside the womb.
And if it's not removed, you can either wait for the walls of the tubes to rupture and put your own life in danger, or remove the fetus.

There are no other options.

If I was told a pregnancy was going to be extremely difficult, I personally would still go through with the pregnancy. But, when there is 0 hope of the child's survival...no.

Removal of an ectopic pregnancy is not abortion in any but the strictest sense, but a surgery. There is zero chance of the baby or the woman surviving. I am also not speaking of cases where the physician waits until the baby is viable to induce labor in an ill woman. If the child were to die, I don't think that is abortion.

 

[Kelly]

Thus even the child of a rape will be worked by God into a good thing for those who love him.

That's right. Let's hope it doesn't happen but I remember hearing from someone on this board that their wife was a child of a rape and that he couldn't imagine life without her. Something to noodle. I will be the first to admit that having a child from a rape would be the biggest decision of someone's entire life, I respect someone's strength in order to go through with it, and it can (perhaps) bring a positive out of a very bleak negative.

 

[BarbB]

That's right. Let's hope it doesn't happen but I remember hearing from someone on this board that their wife was a child of a rape and that he couldn't imagine life without her. .

Wow, now I am crying!

 

[Annabel Lee]

Removal of an ectopic pregnancy is not abortion in any but the strictest sense, but a surgery. There is zero chance of the baby or the woman surviving. I am also not speaking of cases where the physician waits until the baby is viable to induce labor in an ill woman. If the child were to die, I don't think that is abortion.

I agree that the removal of an ectopic pregnancy is only technically an abortion.
Not everyone agrees. In this abortion poll it was suggested, by more than a few Christians, that it was murder.

http://www.christianforums.com/t38952&page=1&highlight=abortion

 

[BarbB]

I agree that the removal of an ectopic pregnancy is only technically an abortion.
Not everyone agrees. In this abortion poll it was suggested, by more than a few Christians, that it was murder.

http://www.christianforums.com/t38952&page=1&highlight=abortion

Wow, I hope it was just ignorance of the meaning and prognosis of an ectopic pregnancy that produced such responses. Well, Annabel, I don't always agree with you, but your posts are always thoughtful. And I totally agree with you that surgery for an ectopic pregnancy is NOT abortion. It is truly like an appendix or gall bladder except for the tragedy of losing a child.

 

[Tracie]

People have said they'd have an abortion if their child was not going to live (I'm not counting ectopic here). I just wanted to say I'd NEVER take that risk. The risk that the dr.s are wrong.

I know one woman who was pregnant and the dr. said the baby didn't have a brain and they should go ahead and abort because the baby wouldn't live anyway. Well, they've got a healthy little kid now!

I know another woman who was told at 3 months pregnant her baby was dead...no heartbeat...and she should have a d&c. She refused and now has a beautiful, healthy 18 year old daughter.

I just hope those of you who would abort if the dr. said something is wrong would choose to give that baby a chance. The dr. could be wrong. I know so many WONDERFUL people with Down's Syndrome. I know a beautiful little HAPPY boy with Cerebral Palsy. I know a several great, healthy people with Cystic Fibrosis. I know a couple of great people with Spina Bifida. I'm so thankful their parent's didn't abort. If they had, this world would be a much colder place without them.

Tracie

 

[jayem]

As for the poll... what is "natural viability"?

This is the point in gestation where a premature baby can survive without intensive artificial life support. Or, in other words, this is where a fetus has sufficient physiologic maturity that it needs only common measures, such as warmth, nutrition, hydration, etc. Yet another way to describe it is the point where a fetus can live outside the uterus with only natural care. When it is viable by nature. Viability, if not qualified like this, may be affected by technology and advances in life support, and can be a continually moving target. Natural viability is more biologically fixed, and obviates the effect of medical technology. Going back to the old pediatric literature, before widespread use of ventilators, lung surfactant, and parenteral nutrition, etc, a baby born at 25 weeks had just over a 50% chance of survival. In my opinion, the state can legally restrict abortion after 25 weeks, or when a fetus is naturally viable. Before this point, abortion should be a private medical matter between a woman and her doctor. Let me add that this 25 week mark is only applicable in utero. Once a baby is born, no matter how premature, it has full legal rights just like any other person.

 

[Spike~]

I think rapest desirve the death penelty, so by no means am I supportive of rapist. I am also a male so I don't think I will be getting raped anytime soon. And I will let God judge my next life. Bad things in life happen, like rape, but killing a baby will not justify it by any means.

Well gee golly, ain't that a double standard. If the rapist was doing the will of God, then why should he die? Wouldn't that make him a martyr?

You're not killing a baby, you're killing an embryo/fetus. You should really cut down on the propaganda.

You don't seem to give a rat's *** about the suffering of the woman, who is the real victim here. A child is supposed to be concieved in love, not in an act of terrible violence. And forcing a woman to have the child of a rapist is almost as cruel as the rape itself. And even forcing that woman to possibly die for the child is downright evil.

Yes, it is intelligent and moral of me to say that it's right to never abort baby's.

You say that, "rape is the will of God", and then you have the nerve to talk of morality?!

And forcing a woman to go though with a pregnancy that may very well kill her is far from intelligent.

Trust me, I realize the pains of people being raped, my cousin was almost then I stopped the guy mid process, luckly he was drunk so bad he couldn't fight back well enough to hurt me, cause he was big enough he could have sevrely hurt me. If she would have pressed charges I would of gone all the way to make sure he never sees another female again, one way or another.

If you care about the pains of rape victims, then you are not showing it very well. I really wish your cousin could come on here and see this, and tell us what she thinks.

Matter of fact, if anyone here knows someone who has been the victim of rape, could you bring them here to set this guy straight.

Abortion is murder, "though shall not commit murder" What part of that do you not understand?????

Quoting the Bible to a non-believer, is this that intelligence you spoke of?

And by supporting forcing a woman to have a child that may kill her, you are making yourself an accessory to her murder, should she die. Might as well hold a gun to her heard yourself, and tell her to "push".

 

[praying]

Where is the tolerance?

I agree with ArchAngel. Even in cases of rape (how many does this amount to?)! Even if the mother's life is in danger (yeah, this used to be the old standard and it's junk)!

If a woman is raped and does conceive, the child can be put up for adoption. The child should not suffer for his father's sin! If a woman is too poor or too ill to have a child, use birth control or have your tubes tied! There are services a poor woman can use to have and keep her baby.

Abortion is murder!

So you are saying if you are poor you automatically should be on birth control or have your tubes tied, suppose you are not sexually active.

Sounds like hidden eugenics to me

 

[Jonathan David]

Sounds like hidden eugenics to me

Agreed... I doubt that this is how you intended it Newlamb, but it does sort of read that way. Can you clarify it at all?

Peace.

JD