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Abortion- is it wrong?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by thelord's_pearl, Oct 24, 2020.

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  1. thelord's_pearl

    thelord's_pearl Active Member

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    I ask yet another difficult question for me (I've never had an abortion), but let's look at a scenario where if someone is raped by someone they're not interested in or attracted to, that would be horrible, horrifying and disgusting, in that case I would want an abortion. is abortion killing/murder? is the answer obvious? If the answer is clearly yes, that abortion is killing/murder, that is just so horrible! So God would not allow it in this case, why not? Thank you all for your help :(
     
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  2. Leet

    Leet Newbie

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    I'm against abortion in general but as you said, what about rape? Incest? UNDERAGE rape or incest? I would stand by anyone who aborts under these circumstances.
     
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  3. Aussie Pete

    Aussie Pete Well-Known Member Supporter

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    These sort of "what if" questions are unhelpful. First up, you don't know how you would respond in that situation. Some women have kept the child while others have had the pregnancy terminated. It's a terrible decision to have to make and it's between the individual and God. What does the conscience say? That's what matters. And pray for protection so that you do not find yourself in that dilemma.
     
  4. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    God has a plan concerning the time and place of our births:
    -“And he made from one man every race of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted epochs and the fixed boundaries of the places where they would live;” (Acts 17:26)

    He formed us:
    -“For You formed my innermost parts; You knit me [together] in my mother’s womb” Psa 139:13
    -“Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?” Mal 2;10
    -“The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.” Job 33:44
    -"I will put ligaments on you, place muscles on you, and cover you with skin. I will put breath in you, and you will live. Then you will know that I am Yahweh." Eze 37:6

    God has a plan for each one:
    -“For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.” Jer 29:11
    -“And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, for those who are called according to his purpose,” Rom 8:28
    -“who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time eternal,” II Tim 1:9
    -“I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.” Psa 32:8
    -“And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.” Isa 58:11
     
  5. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you do something evil to an innocent person do you do wrong? Of course. If you do something evil to someone because someone else did evil to you, how does that right the wrong? It doesn't. It just adds another wrong, perpetuating violence. Abortion doesn't 'fix' anything. It is an act of violence in and of itself, against an innocent and defenseless human being.
     
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  6. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Why did God kill all the firstborn of Egypt? Why did He allow Herod to kill all the male children two years old and younger?

    => Abortion is a medical procedure <= Like all medical procedures there is always an underlying reason, not always apparent for those who self-righteously judge others. (Remember, we are told not to judge others while we have a plank in our own eye.)

    Do you think God's wants a mother to die because of a fatal anomaly of the fetus? Are two deaths what you want?
     
  7. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    It is a medical procedure!! If there is no chance for the fetus to live -- the reason for most abortions -- should both the mother and fetus both die? Is that what God wants?

    I had heart surgery four years ago; it saved my life. Should I have refused the surgery, saying it's God's will for me to die, leaving my wife, children, and grandchildren to go on without me? Should my wife have said that the surgery is an act of violence in and of itself, against an innocent and defenseless human being?
     
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  8. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Okay.

    Of course.

    I'm not sure what you mean here. Is it that God would intervene to keep that abortion from occurring? Or do you mean that God would find the abortion to be murder? Or do you mean that you'd think he would allow an abortion if the cause was rape?
     
  9. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Why did God allow the rape and pregnancy to occur in the first place?
     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Why did God allow the Holocaust or World War I or the Inquisition? That isn't the way God works, constantly intervening in order to prevent people from sinning when they are trying to do so.
     
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  11. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    Can you spell non sequitor? We are discussing a (necessary) medical procedure, not the Holocaust or World War I or the Inquisition. If a pregnancy must be terminated then a medical procedure must be performed. That is practicing sound medicine.
     
  12. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    All life, given by God, is precious.

    All abortion is evil. Its murder. Its unChristian.
     
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  13. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    So risking the life of the mother when the fetus has no chance of surviving outside of the womb is okay with you?
     
  14. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Let God's will be done
     
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  15. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    You're okay with a mother dying?? Ask her husband and children how they feel when her life could have been saved by a surgical procedure. Is it God's will for her to needlessly die because of other people's wrong beliefs?
     
  16. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    It is not our place to kill innocent babies. "Though shalt not kill".

    I say again, let God's will be done
     
  17. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    What are you talking about? An abortion is a necessary medical procedure to save the life of the mother when the fetus has no chance of surviving outside the womb. Would you like to watch a newborn die an agonizing death? It's a horrible, horrible experience. I know whereof I speak!

    "Though shalt not kill" the mother!!!
     
  18. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    Jesus laid down His life for us.

    John 15:13
    13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

    Even greater when it is for a loved one my friend
     
  19. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

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    Here's what came to mind as I read through the posts, for what it may be worth to the original poster and subsequent readers. It's just one more opinion to consider, offered in good will.

    Thankfully, to answer the original post, the situation where pregnancy occurs in a genuine rape situation is quite rare. Likely it won't be a situation the Original Poster will face. Some people compromise with a "morning after" pill which is like a huge sudden dose of birth control medication that makes the womb inhospitable, so implantation can't occur. You decide if that's an acceptable option, but it is equivalent to using chemical birth control ("the pill").

    Some people aren't careful what situations they put themselves in, so I think the first line of defense in order NOT to face a pregnancy in a "rape" situation is to avoid being vulnerable. I understand that violent situations happen. I also know women can be amazingly stupid, like drinking themselves into a haze. And there is simply nothing wrong with being overly cautious in any situation where her drink might be tampered with (even water or soda) or where she could be easily overcome by someone else (like dark alleys, being out with a group of guys she doesn't know, or that sort of thing.) I'm not making this stuff up: there is simply no reason for women to be stupid about trusting strangers yet it happens all the time and sometimes ends up in what she would later call "rape." I encourage women and men to value their bodies to avoid consequences they don't want, whether it's heartbreak, unplanned pregnancies (including unplanned motherhood and fatherhood), traumatic memories, or sexually transmitted diseases. So if people were actually respectful, there would be even scarcer rapes and many fewer pregnancies. I would never want anyone to be in the situation of having to recover from a rape, so that's why I mention that it's not stupid to be cautious but may be stupid to be overly trusting. Trust can be earned - it isn't necessarily a right or a gift. People are just more vulnerable than they want to admit and they get taken advantage of in all sorts of ways.

    But I have to agree with the idea that two wrongs won't right the first one. And science has already determined that the fertilized egg is a separate individual life, so taking it voluntarily would have to be murder, no matter the status of laws.

    In the end, if it's you in the situation, you get to make the responses and you get whatever consequences come from your decisions. If you want to know what God thinks about it, a good reading of the Bible will provide you with a whole lot of information about what God thinks. And if you are really interested in agreeing with what God has to say and walking like He both did and told us to do, that's where I would recommend you start - at the Source. We have no other mediator (in other words, what I say God says doesn't trump what God actually said, or "don't believe me, believe your Bible") - no mediator other than Jesus Christ, and Jesus said the same thing God said in the Old Testament. You can trust Him.
     
  20. food4thought

    food4thought Loving truth Supporter

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    This is a complicated problem. In order to have a civil discussion, and begin to understand it in even a basic way, we need to agree on the answer to an extremely important question (for both thelord's_pearl and everyone else)...

    At what point does a human zygote cell become a human being? 1) At conception? 2) When it is embedded in the wall of a woman's womb (5-6 days after conception)? 3) First heartbeat (about 5-6 weeks*)? 4) The development of a brain and nervous system, enabling a nescient consciousness with the ability to move and feel (about 8 weeks*)? 5) A later time in the womb (please indicate approximately which week of pregnancy)? Or at birth? Please provide Biblical and scientific reasons for your answer.

    I think the best balance between science and Scripture is found in saying "no later than option 4". In Luke 1, Elizabeth is 6 months pregnant with John the Baptist when he leaps in her womb "for joy", a distinctly human emotion. So, biblically, a zygote must become a human being sometime BEFORE the 6th month of pregnancy. Scientifically, Scripturally, and philosophically, the beginning of consciousness is very important; and morally, the ability of that consciousness to experience pain during an abortion procedure is also very important. I feel pretty confident in that position... what's yours?

    * weeks from last menstruation
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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