Abortion Discussion

civilwarbuff · Mar 14, 2016

AirPo said:
Someone who tosses around the fantasy term pro-abort should not be claiming others are putting their foot in their mouth.

Does the phrase "pro-abort" offend you?

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

redleghunter said:
At what point does one achieve this life apart?

Babies do seem quite reliant on the mother for sustenance after birth.

When you analyse the pro-abort arguments it doesn't take long to work out that they fail miserably. Having raised two children and having nine grandchildren from 3 months to 12 years, I have had plenty of time to observe life.

One thing I discovered is that once the BABY is born, if I left it to fend for itself it would be dead in a few days. The same applies at one year of age, and two, and three, and four and so on. In fact what I discovered is that BABIES who become children are not independent and then only marginally so when they reach the age of about nine or ten give or take. That is the time when they go to the fridge and help themselves to a snack after school or make one for themselves. When they get on their bike and ride over to see their mate, they don't have to be taken in a car. Where it is safe for them to swim in the pool by themselves.

So, if we are to believe the pro-aborts, we can have them killed up to that age because they are not independent.

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

AirPo said:
It's refreshing to see folks who will freely admit that they are not going to listen to what other people have to say.

I would if they had anything to say but that is not the case unfortunately.

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

AirPo said:
And that's the joke part. I guess you don't get your bad humor.

Difficult to get something that does not exist.

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
Does the phrase "pro-abort" offend you?

No, thanks for asking.

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
I would if they had anything to say but that is not the case unfortunately.

How would you know if you just throw it away without listening?

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
Difficult to get something that does not exist.

That was the point. The "joke book" refered to is just a fantasy.

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

A commentary on the link between abortion and depression which the pro-aborts want to keep hidden....

“But friends believe she had never really gotten over her marriage to Miller, which ended in divorce after only a year. In her tell-all autobiography Air Kiss And Tell, she revealed she had an abortion because the pregnancy would interfere with Miller’s preparation for the 2000 Olympics — and blamed that for the start of her long battle with depression.”

“Ms Dawson wrote that she was alone when she had the termination. In her book she wrote that this was her first experience with depression — a battle she continued to fight for the next 14 years.”

And the simple truth is, this is another ugly secret of the abortion industry. Abortion does indeed lead to depression and mental and psychological problems. Women do suffer after an abortion: they can suffer physically, emotionally, and psychologically.

So much so, that a number of support groups exist around the world to help women cope with the after-effects of abortion. Groups such as Women Hurt by Abortion and Victims of Choice deal with women each day who are coming to terms with their abortions.

One counsellor who has dealt with many women who have abortions says this: “One psychological effect we see almost all the time is guilt. Others are suicidal impulses, a sense of loss, or unfulfillment. Mourning, regret and remorse. Withdrawal, loss of confidence in decision-making capabilities.”

Many studies could be referred to here. One longitudinal study published in the Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry found that women who have an abortion are more likely to experience mental health problems later in life, including depression, anxiety and drug and alcohol abuse.

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
Surely you cant disagree that an innocent baby should not be terminated against its' will?

You do understand that abortion does not terminate a baby, don't you?

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

AirPo said:
You do understand that abortion does not terminate a baby, don't you?

You do understand that every abortion kills a baby don't you? if you don't you should do.

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
You do understand that every abortion kills a baby don't you? if you don't you should do.

No, that' as much a fantasy as the "joke book." Empty rhetoric. Nothing more than a meaningless bumper sticker.

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

AirPo said:
That was the point. The "joke book" refered to is just a fantasy.

In your dreams!!!

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

AirPo said:
No, that' as much a fantasy as the "joke book."

Ah well, I suppose we can't all be intelligent and knowledgeable.

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
In your dreams!!!

Yes, fantasy.

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
Ah well, I suppose we can't all be intelligent and knowledgeable.

I do very well at not to holding that against those who are not.

Cearbhall · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
Are you for real?

Yes. An unborn human, by definition, is not a baby.

tiglathpileser said:
The photos show babies that were aborted so they were babies before they were aborted and they are babies after they were aborted.

Human fetuses to human newborns.

tiglathpileser said:
Someone wasn't standing over the abortion waving a magic wand that turned them into babies once they had been aborted.

Of course not. I'm not suggesting that there's any greater significance to birth than the act of being born. There's no inherent difference between a fetus and a baby other than the fact that one is a fetus (unborn) and one is a baby (born). It's only a matter of semantics.

I'm not the one who thinks that a soul magically comes into existence with a POOF and enters a blastocyst, after all.

tiglathpileser · Mar 14, 2016

AirPo said:
No, that' as much a fantasy as the "joke book." Empty rhetoric. Nothing more than a meaningless bummber sticker.

Thankyou for your opinion. Duly noted and filed in the round filing basket.

P.S. What is "bummber" sticker?

Douglas Hendrickson · Mar 14, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
Douglas Hendrickson made this statement: "The cancer is not a human life, but it is undoubtedly human and alive, i.e. human life."
Do you equate the value of a cancer cell with the value of human life since you believe the cancer cell is human and alive....in other words "human life"?

The way you put it you are contrasting one cancer cell with (all) human life. "Human life" (without qualification) would be everything of human beings that ever existed on the earth.

I have a correct and true understanding (not mere belief) that human cancer cells, the cancer cells found in human beings (unfortunately), since they have human DNA and constitute (spurious, unwanted) flesh of a human being, and again unfortunately are alive (unless they are killed or die off otherwise), they are yes indeed appropriately called "human life."
Presumably you can tell from this that I don't think the value of the life found in cancer cells (unfortunate and spurious) is equal to the value of other human life. For instance, the value of the human life that is my daughter who is ALSO a human life, a human being.

So, hopefully you get the point of this, the cancer cells, the cancer IS human life, just like fetal cells, the fetus IS human life.

In other words, that you can TRUTHFULLY call fetuses "human life" proves nothing that you would want to prove.

AirPo · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
Thankyou for your opinion. Duly noted and filed in the round filing basket.

P.S. What is "bummber" sticker?

A typo. Thanks for pointing that out. It was very kind of you.

Cearbhall · Mar 14, 2016

tiglathpileser said:
A minute before they were aborted they were same as the minute after they were aborted. If you don;t understand this you need to quietly resign your defence of abortion and start to learn what actually happens.

Indeed, but I still prefer to use terms correctly for clarity's sake. Just a personal decision that I find aids discussion when both babies and fetuses are being mentioned.

tiglathpileser said:
I will say one thing, your post shows us very clearly that you are totally out of your depth when discussing abortion.

What, because I know what "fetus" means? Please, try to actually come up with a substantial complaint. There's always room for improvement, so I'd be happy to hear any logical criticism.

And this is your first rodeo, yes? I recommend reading one of the many other discussions on abortion in which I have participated. Preferably ones where people didn't stunt it by complaining over and over about other people using the word "fetus" and we actually got to have a productive discussion.

tiglathpileser said:
Your focus is more about supercilious comment than intelligent discussion and building a case for your argument. So, please don't expect us take anything you say seriously.

Well yes, I agree that all of this discussion over two little terms is ridiculous. But I'm not going to back down and say that "fetus" and "baby" are synonymous from a medical perspective and can be used interchangeably in all contexts. That would be intellectually dishonest of me, but it seems I'm wasting my energy. It's funny because I haven't even asked anyone else to use the term "fetus." I've only stated why I do so, but I'll just drop it and continue to use the terms properly.

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