A wifes submission to her husband includes obedience

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How does the church submit to Christ?
What does it mean that Jesus is the head of the church?
How is the church subjected to Christ in everything?

Please answer these so we can figure out the role of the wife in a marriage relationship.

This won't work.

 

[thesunisout]

This won't work.

What isnt going to work?

 

[joshua 1 9]

I say this topic is an excellent reason for women to not enter a christian marriage

If you are not in a christian marriage then you are in a counterfeit forgery. If you do not have what is real then you have a fake copy of what is real.

 

[Archivist]

My girlfriend and I see ourselves as equals in the relationship. We submit to each other. We spend lots of time compromising.

 

[Zoii]

If you are not in a christian marriage then you are in a counterfeit forgery. If you do not have what is real then you have a fake copy of what is real.

You're telling married couples that aren't christian; that they are in fact fake marriages? That's such arrogance

 

[Strong in Him]

It means that there is one head, and not two. God has given the husband authority to make decisions in every area of the marriage, which the wife should abide by.

Supposing the couple aren't Christians when they marry, and the wife later becomes a Christian, but not the husband?
Supposing the husband can't make decisions or doesn't want, or take, that responsibility?
Supposing he believes that the Lord can speak to his wife just as much as he can speak to him, and that, in some areas, the wife may have more knowledge, or responsibility?

An example would be, the wife wants to make a purchase and the husband vetos it. In this case because the husband has authority the veto is unilateral and the wife cannot overrule it.

Of course she can.
IF they have a joint bank account, one bank card, the husband is the sole earner and has control of the finances, maybe she would need to ask his "permission" before buying anything. But some women have their own bank accounts; some women have jobs - may be even higher paid jobs than their husbands - and are earning money and contributing to, if not paying for, household items and expenses.
No way would I even think of asking my husband if I could buy underwear and feminine hygiene products. As for clothes; he has no idea what I like and what would suit me.

If the Lord does not agree with her and at that point the wife decides to disobey her husband and buy what she wanted, she has sinned against the Lord.

Scripture? Or is that your interpretation of it?

 

[Strong in Him]

Before we got married, we asked the vicar what is meant by obedience.
He said it means that when you, as husband and wife, have a decision to make, you talk about it, consider the other person's feelings and wishes and pray about it together. If you can't make the decision, think differently and can't resolve the issue, THEN - after discussion and prayer - it is the husband's responsibility to decide and the wife's responsibility to support him and not say "I told you so" or "you should have listened to me" if it goes pear shaped.

Obedience does NOT mean that the husband says "you MUST wear this/have this hairstyle/buy that/eat this/have these friends or hobbies/not have a job/look after me and our 13 children" - and the wife says "yes dear, of course dear."

 

[Zoii]

Before we got married, we asked the vicar what is meant by obedience.
He said it means that when you, as husband and wife, have a decision to make, you talk about it, consider the other person's feelings and wishes and pray about it together. If you can't make the decision, think differently and can't resolve the issue, THEN - after discussion and prayer - it is the husband's responsibility to decide and the wife's responsibility to support him and not say "I told you so" or "you should have listened to me" if it goes pear shaped.

Obedience does NOT mean that the husband says "you MUST wear this/have this hairstyle/buy that/eat this/have these friends or hobbies/not have a job/look after me and our 13 children" - and the wife says "yes dear, of course dear."

I disagree with your vicar in as much as it's not the husband's role to have the final decision when one can't be made... I believe U just work on it n between the two U decide right or wrong on a direction. I think the whole wife obedience thing is just misogynistic BS

 

[joshua 1 9]

You're telling married couples that aren't chrChrist that they are in fake marriages? That's such arrogance

They are not married and they do not know what a marriage is. The serpent has lots of fakes and lots of counterfeits. If people do not belong to God then they belong to the devil. I do not usually talk about this subject but maybe the time has come to start talking about it so people know what they need to avoid if they want to serve God and walk in the true love of God. It is important to understand our call to be Holy and Sanctified before God.

John8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

A big part of a Jewish wedding is the shattered glass. This expresses our shattered state of being and the hope of a marriage being the cure to bring all the broken pieces of our soul back together again. Only God and only a true marriage can cure a shattered soul. Satan's counterfeit does not bring the broken pieces back together again. You can try to glue them but that is just not the same as restoring them.

You have Adam and Eve & Joseph and Mary (Maria). Then you have all the generations in between. This is the blood line of Jesus: what they call the scarlet thread. This shows us God's plan of redemption and restoration for the generations of man and the generations of the Earth.

Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"

 

[joshua 1 9]

I think the whole wife obedience thing is just misogynistic BS

According to philosophy of ecofeminism the cure for male oppression & domination are the feminist values of reciprocity, nurturing & cooperation. The idea is that God split man into male and female and it is the feminist qualities that reunite them.

Oppression & domination are considered misogynistic, submission involved qualities that are considered to be feminist. At least by women that take their priesthood before God serious. Women are a lot more different from each other then they are different from men. The Y chromosome (male) is only one-third the size of the X (female). Men have X & Y so they have all the information needed to create a women. Women only have the X chromosome so they can not reproduce themselves without a man. 1Cor11:12 "For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman." Women receive one x from their mother and one from their father.

A Woman’s Perspective on the Priesthood - ensign

 

[Zoii]

They are not married and they do not know what a marriage is. The serpent has lots of fakes and lots of counterfeits. If people do not belong to God then they belong to the devil. I do not usually talk about this subject but maybe the time has come to start talking about it so people know what they need to avoid if they want to serve God and walk in the true love of God. It is important to understand our call to be Holy and Sanctified before God.

John8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

A big part of a Jewish wedding is the shattered glass. This expresses our shattered state of being and the hope of a marriage being the cure to bring all the broken pieces of our soul back together again. Only God and only a true marriage can cure a shattered soul. Satan's counterfeit does not bring the broken pieces back together again. You can try to glue them but that is just not the same as restoring them.

You have Adam and Eve & Joseph and Mary (Maria). Then you have all the generations in between. This is the blood line of Jesus: what they call the scarlet thread. This shows us God's plan of redemption and restoration for the generations of man and the generations of the Earth.

Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"

Your views are discounting the love and life in marriage of jews, buddhists, moslems hindus and atheists. Its an unbelievable arrogance to suggest that anyone but you and fellow christians know what marriage is. The views expressed here are quickly alienating me from this religion and its incredible intolerances and arrogances.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Its an unbelievable arrogance

You are judging yourself not me. It is going to be difficult to have a conversation with you until you resolve this issue with your own shadow and quit projecting yourself out onto others. You need to confront the fact that YOU are guilty of what you are accusing others of which in this case is: "incredible intolerances and arrogances." You are also in violation of the terms of service for this web site.

Defence mechanisms - Wikipedia

 

[Zoii]

You are judging yourself not me. It is going to be difficult to have a conversation with you until you resolve this issue with your own shadow and quit projecting yourself out onto others. You need to confront the fact that YOU are guilty of what you are accusing others of which in this case is: "incredible intolerances and arrogances." You are also in violation of the terms of service for this web site.

Defence mechanisms - Wikipedia

Hm nice try at the psychology but stick to the topic of the OP and not a psychoanalysis of me.
The topic of this discussion is: Its it arrogant telling people you dont know that their marriage is a fake because they may not share your religious conviction- and btw when I use that word arrogance and intolerance I aim it at those who share your interepretation of verses - I just find it unbelievable; its incredulous that any christian can stand up and point at jews, buddhists [insert religion] and have the gall to say that their love and marriage is a fake. What on earth is the message you're sending because its certainly not one of love preace and harmony. It verging on spite and cultural divisiveness.

If you believe your stance is so perfect then take a poll - tell people here that their marriage unless its a christian one is a sham and a fake... better still walk into a bar and tell everyone there that and let me know how you get on.

 

[Zoii]

According to philosophy of ecofeminism the cure for male oppression & domination are the feminist values of reciprocity, nurturing & cooperation. The idea is that God split man into male and female and it is the feminist qualities that reunite them.

Oppression & domination are considered misogynistic, submission involved qualities that are considered to be feminist. At least by women that take their priesthood before God serious. Women are a lot more different from each other then they are different from men. The Y chromosome (male) is only one-third the size of the X (female). Men have X & Y so they have all the information needed to create a women. Women only have the X chromosome so they can not reproduce themselves without a man. 1Cor11:12 "For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman." Women receive one x from their mother and one from their father.

A Woman’s Perspective on the Priesthood - ensign

Ive heard a bit from you on your views of what women should think and Ive made it plain that I dont support your arguments as they seem to be based on no logic other then a few verses you dredge up and interpret in the manner of your choosing. I on the other hand base my logic on the fact that we are in the 21st century with women intellectually, educationally, occupational competency, have the requsiste attributes to fill any form of leadership and that includes religous leadership. Being in a marriage is no different with women not leading to either submit or be led - its a partnership where they should be walking through life side-by-side not women bowing their head in submission. So unless you have anything else to add aside from your skewed views of a few verses, then I will rest on the opinion that women will carry on regardless of how you or others see the world. In any case the real point is that women ARE leading, have their own jobs, have their own education and have no need to abase themselves to a man in total submission.

 

[JackRT]

A marriage is a covenant between two people who love each other and wish to living together exclusively for life. It wasn't until the 11th century that the church even insisted that all Christians be married in the church. Before that only the powerful and the rich had church weddings and that was usually for the purpose of consolidating and increasing power and wealth.

 

[joshua 1 9]

they seem to be based on no logic other then a few verses

They are based on the philosophy of Ken Wilber. His books were recommended to me by my brother that has a PhD in Psychology. My brother (before he retired) was the director of the Psychology department at our local children's hospital. Wilber's work is based in solid scientific methods that are well proven to work. The way he explains this is that truth is like a pearl. He takes the pearls of what is proven to be true and proven to work in the real world. He will string them together and make a necklace. You can disagree if you want but that is not how it works in the real world. You have to come up with a better theory. So give it your best shot. So if you have a better theory and understanding of how the collective unconscious works and functions then I would love to hear what you have to say.

So far I do not see where you are saying anything any different from what I am saying. You disagree with me then you proceed to say pretty much the same thing that you just disagreed with. So tell me in what way do you disagree with Patricia T. Holland and why do you take issue with her and what she is saying?

 

[joshua 1 9]

A marriage is a covenant between two people who love each other and wish to living together exclusively for life.

If you want to give us a lesson in covenant theology I am all for it. But I think we need to look at the prairie voles that mate for life and the hormones that the brain produces that science feels is the reason they mate for life. Otherwise it would be wonderful if you could explain the synergy that exists between covenants and love. Because you are talking about two different functions in the brain / conscious that has to be united or joined in some way.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The topic of this discussion is: Its it arrogant telling people you dont know that their marriage is a fake

Swing and a miss, close but no cigar. You like to twist what people are saying. The subject has to do with what is a REAL marriage and what is a fake satanic marriage that is promoted by the serpent. I am in no position to judge anyone or their marriage and I am insulted that you would accuse me of judging people in that way.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Ive heard a bit

Did you click on the link from the wife of the president of Brigham Young University? Just where exactly do you disagree with her, because I gave you that link for a reason and I told you I agree with her views. So I would love for you to show us where you disagree with Patricia T. Holland and what is the reason you disagree with her.

 

[thesunisout]

Supposing the couple aren't Christians when they marry, and the wife later becomes a Christian, but not the husband?
Supposing the husband can't make decisions or doesn't want, or take, that responsibility?
Supposing he believes that the Lord can speak to his wife just as much as he can speak to him, and that, in some areas, the wife may have more knowledge, or responsibility?

The scripture tells us about the first scenario:

1 Peter 3:1

Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear.

In your second scenario, if the husband doesn't want to be the leader then he will be accountable to God for disobeying the word.

In the third scenario, the role of husband and wife does not stymie the wifes input, or her relationship with the Lord; it strengthens it. When the wife is submitting to her husband she is also submitting to Christ, which means she is positioning herself to hear from Him. If she abides in Christ in her martial relationship she will have wisdom from the Lord to contribute. The husband should always receive the godly counsel of his wife and would be foolish not to consult her. That doesn't mean he is obligated to decide in favor of his wifes preferences, but he always should love her above his own needs.

Of course she can.

We all can sin if we choose, certainly.

IF they have a joint bank account, one bank card, the husband is the sole earner and has control of the finances, maybe she would need to ask his "permission" before buying anything. But some women have their own bank accounts; some women have jobs - may be even higher paid jobs than their husbands - and are earning money and contributing to, if not paying for, household items and expenses.
No way would I even think of asking my husband if I could buy underwear and feminine hygiene products. As for clothes; he has no idea what I like and what would suit me.

I don't think husbands should regulate all of their wifes purchases, unless their wife is financially foolish. That wasn't the point of my example; I was only showing an example of the husbands authority and how he could exercise it.

Scripture? Or is that your interpretation of it?

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

If the wife refuses to obey the husband, she has sinned; this scripture makes it clear that the wife

A. Submits to the husband as she does to the Lord
B. The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is our head
C. The wife should be subject to her husband in everything

The scripture is black and white, your choice is whether to believe it or not. Are you going to listen to the cultural idea of what a marriage is or what Gods idea of a marriage is?